Jump to content

Vancouver Whitecaps 2014 Roster Thread


tmcmurph

Recommended Posts

Tigres was kicking the tires apparently, then backed off when they realized he was under contract. Rosenberg allegedly made a $2m bid. That's looking pretty good right now. There are better players than Camilo available for free transfer in June. If he really wants $1m, I'm sure we can find a suitable replacement for less. Maybe not a golden boot winner, who is dangerous on free kicks; but a player who will help us win games. We still missed the playoffs with Camilo's great season and it seems unlikely he will have another this good. I'm not advocating these players per se but, by way of example, Kenwyne Jones and Jordi Gomez are both available in June. They each make approximately 600,000 euros and haven't performed well in their contract year. Depending on what you think of Manneh, Mattocks, and Salgado, there's an argument that you could sign one or both of these guys (or similar) and have a more well rounded club. The Caps problem, of course, is that they haven't been able to sign the right DPs. Of course Camilo thinks he's worth $1m when Kenny Miller is collecting $1.2. Although Miller may have had more impact on the matches he played when healthy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 421
  • Created
  • Last Reply
There are better players than Camilo available for free transfer in June.

This is probably true, but it's hard to know which one those are in advance. Which is why Camilo tumbled into our arms after a trial, having washed out of South Korea, in the first place. You're rash to take an uncertain future over a known quantity, if you have the choice, which the Whitecaps don't. What's my point again?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is probably true, but it's hard to know which one those are in advance. Which is why Camilo tumbled into our arms after a trial, having washed out of South Korea, in the first place. You're rash to take an uncertain future over a known quantity, if you have the choice, which the Whitecaps don't. What's my point again?

I guess we need some blind faith that Carl Robinson has better ability to scout talent than Rennie, Soehn, or Thordarssson. I'm reasonably optimistic that this will be true.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've been playing a LOT of FIFA 14 lately and according to the games I've played as the Whitecaps, Omar Salgado is our striking salvation.

I would need more evidence than this... who is our best striker on Football Manager 14? :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the faith in Robinson, from the Whitecaps management perspective, is that he is better at bringing developmental talent along, rather than necessarily recruiting talent. That said, it's clear that losing Camilo was never in anyone's plans, and it was certainly out of Carl Robinson's hands.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Robinson was or should be credited with bringing in Leveron, O'Brien, and Kenny Miller. I'd say that's a two out of three success rate thus far. Even Kenny Miller hasn't been bad. He's overpaid, and his personal life/injuries have hampered his contribution a bit.

Fair enough,

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Robinson was or should be credited with bringing in Leveron, O'Brien, and Kenny Miller. I'd say that's a two out of three success rate thus far. Even Kenny Miller hasn't been bad. He's overpaid, and his personal life/injuries have hampered his contribution a bit.

Is that right? Did not know that. And I agree with your assessment of which are successes and which are questionable. I as well truly think Leveron has a huge upside, but in all honesty, the jury is still out. For me, with Robinson in charge, I'd certainly think that by your logic of Robinson being instrumental in Leveron joining the club, this would mean that Leveron is likely to get some chances this year. I couldn't be happier about that, I definitely think he has serious potential.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A new photo of Camilo in Querétaro kit this time training with them as well.

Bdj-y8hCcAAf5BG.jpg

From this article

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2014/01/09/vancouver-whitecaps-striker-camilo-sanvezzo-appears-yet-another-photo-wearin

Also Robinson not mincing words about his opinion of Camilo's behaviour:

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2014/01/09/vancouver-whitecaps-carl-robinson-surprised-camilos-behavior-calls-striker-u

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A new photo of Camilo in Querétaro kit this time training with them as well.

From this article

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2014/01/09/vancouver-whitecaps-striker-camilo-sanvezzo-appears-yet-another-photo-wearin

Also Robinson not mincing words about his opinion of Camilo's behaviour:

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2014/01/09/vancouver-whitecaps-carl-robinson-surprised-camilos-behavior-calls-striker-u

Imagine how Carl feels. It was to him who Camilo singled out and ran directly after securing the golden boot. Camilo heaped tonnes of praise upon him post season and, along with Teibert, threw his support firmly behind the former assistant. Heartbreaking really. It's sadly ironic but Robinson apparently lost the home he was leasing because the caps farted around so long waiting for official replies from their top choices. Apparently he might have lost Camilo too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Imagine how Carl feels. It was to him who Camilo singled out and ran directly after securing the golden boot. Camilo heaped tonnes of praise upon him post season and, along with Teibert, threw his support firmly behind the former assistant. Heartbreaking really. It's sadly ironic but Robinson apparently lost the home he was leasing because the caps farted around so long waiting for official replies from their top choices. Apparently he might have lost Camilo too.

Whatever happens it is hard to see Camilo returning to the Caps now (or playing for Canada for that matter). No matter how good he is, that would kill team morale and players would lose respect for management. This is like the DeRo cheque signing incident multiplied by 10. Caps just need to try to get as much cash out of Querétaro as possible and try to get FIFA or whoever to come down as hard as possible on Querétaro and Camilo (unless of course they lose a challenge to the club option in which case they are completely screwed)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Honestly, it's time to move on from Camilo now.

Training with another club in their kit, is the straw that breaks the camels back. No way, the Caps can let him back into the room and risk the morale of the club being lost under a new and rookie manager.

I say bring on Friend, and cross our fingers Robbo can get Mattocks back on track. Manneh and Salgado should provide good depth. and we can't forget about Miller who was arguably the best player on the pitch (when he was on it). The 'Caps might be able to move on from Camilo without major repercussions.

Replacing his goals will be hard, but I think the Whitecaps can mitigate it through allowing fewer goals as well. With a full season with Ousted and presumably a healthier back four.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Whatever happens it is hard to see Camilo returning to the Caps now (or playing for Canada for that matter). No matter how good he is, that would kill team morale and players would lose respect for management. This is like the DeRo cheque signing incident multiplied by 10. Caps just need to try to get as much cash out of Querétaro as possible and try to get FIFA or whoever to come down as hard as possible on Querétaro and Camilo (unless of course they lose a challenge to the club option in which case they are completely screwed)

The other players are probably laughing. It's not like a player was dropped in as a DP making a dozen times more than they were and then didn't produce. This is a guy who has played 3 years with one of them being played out of position. There were so many players on the Caps who made more than Camilo I'd bet the players are thinking "good for him".

Respect for management? The management that had a golden boot winner who was still young at 25 and kept bringing in high paid DPs who all combined didn't produce as much as Camilo? I don't think there is any respect left to be lost. They have none.

First the MLS lawyers should be fired and replaced with competent ones if this stands plus MLS should give buckets of allocation cash to the Caps for this.

Second lets hope that the Caps realize that one got away and not drag their feet thinking they have all year with some of the others. I don't blame them but the front office needs to get their act together when it comes to dealing with star players.

We are screwed. Chances are we will get nothing or next to nothing from Queretaro and we'll see what MLS does. Probably nothing either because we are not LA or NY.

Someone on the southside board has a song for Rob Friend already

Winter, spring, summer or fall

Watch him try to hit the ball

And misses the net again

We've got Rob Friend

Kind of funny but with 1 goal and less than 600 minutes playing time this year and at 32 he is hardly a replacement for Camilo.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Camilo, a couple of thoughts from someone who does not understand the contractual details very well. Just to say reading Mexican reports they say the contact was made first around 20 December after the Mexican club dropped one of their international players, the Colombian Henríquez, to free up a spot for a non-Mexican on their roster. Querétaro is very active in transfer markets, in recent seasons they have replaced a large number of players with frequency.

1-Whether he has the right to go or not, in a normal situation losing your top striker means freeing up salary to buy an equivalent striker. If this is not the case, if his salary cannot get you 15+ goals from a new signing, it is because the Whitecaps were not paying him enough. No club in the world doing its job lets this happen.

Since they need more money to buy a strong striker to replace him, they have to dump someone else they were not expecting to.

2-You pay him more but not thinking about selling him for more in the future, it is not that. It is about building the team in reasonable fashion.

I have thought about Camilo's play, and have always liked him, but I can seriously say he is not first tier material for a strong European league, so there is no way he would draw a signficant transfer to the Caps. Just ask a simple question: could he help Sunderland as they now sit, would they buy a player like that to help the team? Of course not. Betis, as the bottom in Spain, just picked up Brian Ruiz from Fulham on loan and a Boca Juniors player. Camilo is below this level. Camilo could probably be a good addition to a 2nd tier team in a strong Euro league. Or a modest side in Mexico, fine. But he is not worth any more than 2 million tops to any other club.

3-His superior salary in Mexico (does anyone know what it is? I doubt it could be 4 times as much, maybe it is double) is directly related to their not having to pay a transfer fee. Which is why his rep was opaque with the Caps, he was offered the deal as long as he could just walk away free from MLS. This justifies the silence. Silence does not equal betrayal, it means good negotiating technique.

4-Whitecaps are not screwed for next year, they have a new and supposedly competent coach whose job is to win. Let's see him do it, with whatever players he might have. Roster management has been one of our problems and it is about time they did a better job making sure those on it are competing, that the combinations are working right to get the goals and have a decent +- as well, where we have been poor. So get to work coach.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1-Whether he has the right to go or not, in a normal situation losing your top striker means freeing up salary to buy an equivalent striker. If this is not the case, if his salary cannot get you 15+ goals from a new signing, it is because the Whitecaps were not paying him enough. No club in the world doing its job lets this happen.

2-You pay him more but not thinking about selling him for more in the future, it is not that. It is about building the team in reasonable fashion.

3-His superior salary in Mexico (does anyone know what it is? I doubt it could be 4 times as much, maybe it is double) is directly related to their not having to pay a transfer fee. Which is why his rep was opaque with the Caps, he was offered the deal as long as he could just walk away free from MLS. This justifies the silence. Silence does not equal betrayal, it means good negotiating technique.

4-Whitecaps are not screwed for next year,

# 1, 2 I agree. # 3 I agree but if they got him for under 600k I'm going to cry. That is easily within the Caps reach to match if not top.

For #4 I meant "screwed" as in the sense of we are not going to get anything meaningful dollar wise (transfer, allocation). That hurts.

I'm hoping some combination of players will fill the net a little each and make up the difference. That and if our CBs don't get injured constantly we should cut down goals against which will help.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

According to this article, the "soap opera" continues:

https://amqueretaro.com/2014/01/la-telenovela-entre-gallos-blancos-y-camilo-sanvezzo-continua/.html

First, Camilo has not yet signed. What is more, Querétaro still has not decided to keep him, indeed they've retracted on other recent announced signings in the last few days even. The impression given is that even if he were a free agent, his training with the club has been a sort of trial.

The club is giving out signals that they did not know his correct contractual situation with Whitecaps. Further, it says Camilo agreed to the option clause and that the CSA has his contract registered and have not given a clearance for international transfer. The club seems to respect this information.

All of which suggests they could back down and decide to avoid signing him to avoid the legal problems. Though the article also says that his signing is likely or expected. So don't know what to think there.

By the way, I am wrong about when he began to negotiate with other clubs. In late November I see Querétaro was already interested, as were Rayo Vallecano from Madrid. Rosenborg from Norway reportedly offered 2 million euros, and a Swiss club more, taken from various sources.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

^^ Sounds like Querétaro has received some phonecalls from several or all of FIFA, CONCACAF, CSA, MFF and lawyers. Personally I have my doubts that the cases found by Lord Bob regarding option years are exact equivalents to this case, ie. I think if one of us actually bought and read the book he refers to and researched the legal documents I think there would be aspects of those contracts in which the options were legally less solid than MLS contracts. And even if Camilo and his agent had some legitimate grounds to challenge the contract do the various parties involved actually want him to do so? For example, if the MFF backs Querétaro and Camilo wins his challenge what are the possibilities that Querétaro itself and the other Mexican clubs might have some contracts of their own that are open to challenge, ie. after a Mexican team challenges a MLS contract and "steals" a player what is to stop MLS clubs and other leagues from getting some lawyers and reading Mexican club contracts for legal loopholes and doing a bit of raiding on their own. I suspect that Querétaro is going to back down and Camilo will eventually end up back with the Caps who will then have the dilemma of what to do with him. At that point if there are still offers on the table like Rosenborg's they might be much more inclined to accept such an offer and at least get a decent transfer fee for him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Somebody pointed out elsewhere that SUM is a significant revenue source for the MFF, meaning that MLS/USSF do have more cards here than one might think -regardless of the reality of the contract, options, and FIFA stance on either.

I would like MLS to purchase the entirety of Camilo's contract from the Whitecaps in exchange for maximum allocation (which I believe is about $650k, or what you would get on a $1m transfer). From there, he should be suspended without pay for the duration of his contract. Make him exhaust his own money in legal fees to try to get paid.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...