CSA says no to Calgary USL (Possibly PDL) team

[Blackdude]

From that article: http://www.lapresse.ca/le-soleil/sports/soccer/201312/04/01-4717738-le-dynamo-integrera-la-premiere-ligue-de-soccer-du-quebec-en-2015.php

It mentions that the CSA denied Calgary and Québec City of fielding a PDL team. I do wonder what is the plan for Calgary to join another league.

[madmonte]

More importantly, why would the CSA reject it? The underlying hidden agenda is the creation of a Canadian only league, obviously, but how bloody long does it take the CSA to get the structure up and running?

In my view, it would be more intelligent to allow Calgary the team that can play in the states, on the understanding that if and when a Canadian league comes into existence, Calgary is forced to join it, pending a better offer from the NASL. That would give Calgary time to start building a fan base and a foundation, which could only be good for the future league. The problem with THAT scenario, though, is that the USL or other leagues would never in a million years buy into it.

I can't believe Calgary doesn't have a pro team at any level, so frustrating as fan down here in southern alberta.

[dobar dan]

Montreal Impact announced this week that they will be playing in the USL PDL 2014 with their senior academy team, meaning they would have had to be granted sanctioning by the CSA????

[ted]

Montreal Impact announced this week that they will be playing in the USL PDL 2014 with their senior academy team, meaning they would have had to be granted sanctioning by the CSA????

Not exactly. According to statements from the CSA they seem to consider these teams to be appendages of the MLS side and fall under that sanctioning. There were also noises coming from the CSA that teams that play under that sort of "umbrella" sanction would NOT be eligible to compete in the VCup as they are not really independent teams.

[Redcoatsforever]

Wasn't there talk of an NASL bid in Calgary?

I think the basic idea here is that the CSA isn't going to be sanctioning anymore 3rd or 4th division cross-border clubs that aren't just MLS reserve/academy sides.

[Guest ClaytonA]

More importantly, why would the CSA reject it? The underlying hidden agenda is the creation of a Canadian only league, obviously, but how bloody long does it take the CSA to get the structure up and running?

...

I can't believe Calgary doesn't have a pro team at any level, so frustrating as fan down here in southern alberta.

The USL PDL is not professional, not pro. At this level in Alberta there is the Alberta Metro Soccer League. I support the CSA decision not to sanction; build that up to a league with more prominence versus further splitting the pyramid off into multiple directions. It would have been nice to see the Impact put their U21 team in the PLSQ as well and Whitecaps in PCSL. PCSL isn’t perfect; lack of marketing and ambivalence to attracting paying spectators has been the knock against the PCSL put forth by some on this board – hopefully some chime in. USL PDL is seen as a higher level than PCSL and I can understand say the U of C Dinos wanting comparable competition to what some UBC and UVic players get. At the top, Div 1 and Div 2, there isn't a comparable league so we piggyback off the USA. I doubt you’d travel or hear much about a Calgary USL PDL team in the Gas City.

The USL is not the panacea, as it has its pluses and minuses including relatively steep league fees (that’s their business model to earn a profit), major travel expenses for a team in Calgary, and conversely its age, connection to USL Pro, as well as a continental playoff tournament lend credibility to local media as a “big deal.” There has been push back to the USL in places like Texas and Washington State where an alternative league focused on paying spectators is starting up: http://eplwa.wordpress.com/ The PCSL lost Bellingham United to this new league for next year. More than more USL PDL teams we need to expand the Voyageurs Cup giving entry to more teams, summer or winter league.

[xcalibre]

...I support the CSA decision not to sanction; build that up to a league with more prominence versus further splitting the pyramid off into multiple directions. It would have been nice to see the Impact put their U21 team in the PLSQ as well and Whitecaps in PCSL...

That's the problem, though. It would be nice to have well-organized leagues that attract those organizations, but we don't. The US system isn't perfect but it's operational. Why deny Calgary the chance to play a 2013, 2014, 2015(??) season while the CSA gets their eggs in order (if ever). You talk about teams leaving the PDL then mention Bellingham, who just left a Canadian summer league. Either way Calgary, Quebec etc could cut their teeth until it's time to leave for a local alternative. Just don't hold your breath.

[Guest ClaytonA]

How well organized is the AMSL? The PLSQ?

I didn't mention teams leaving the PDL; in those two locations (Texas, Washington State, and Chicago area via US Open Cup previews on thecup.us) there's been grumbling about what you get for the fees you pay and prospective teams are not joining the PDL. They're going the route of USADA or US Club Soccer. Irregardless PDL has it's place and is in Canada even if those league fees are headed to Florida.

The USL PDL is a 2-1/2 month summer league and existing local alternatives (AMSL and PLSQ) already exist; it is the same as the PCSL except with better marketing by some individual owners and a continental playoff. The AMSL has been around almost as long as the PDL, it just doesn't have the national or continental cup tournament to grab media and fan interest. Medium term with the FC London group getting a OPDL spot, it'll be interesting to see if they end up League 1 instead of USL PDL medium term as that's a requirement.

What we have is the result of a leadership vacuum where people have been going OK well follow me! or whatever I'll just do my own thing. And the troops split into multiple groups going all different directions. It's not the best way to win a war. We need coherency transparency of the type where teams aren't politically kept out of say provincial championships. I share your pessimism as the CSA seems to be relying on the individual provincial associations to do everything. What are the standards required for a PLSQ, League 1 or whatever team to gain entry into the Canadian Championship? What do they have to have in place? By when?

[Blackdude]

I do wonder if the CSA said that they would sanction a PDL team if they agreed to move their team to a Canadian league later. It's not clearly mentioned there.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Can understand them saying no to the Quebec City team given LSEQ is available, but the Alberta thing seems a bit drastic. How close is a D3 sanctioned provincial league there? If the answer is "not very" I don't think they should be standing in the way of people who want to take a step beyond the AMSL. Could they not make the sanctioning provisional on there being no D3 league in Alberta rather than open-ended in duration?

[DigzTFC]

Can understand them saying no to the Quebec City team given LSEQ is available, but the Alberta thing seems a bit drastic. How close is a D3 sanctioned provincial league there? If the answer is "not very" I don't think they should be standing in the way of people who want to take a step beyond the AMSL. Could they not make the sanctioning provisional on there being no D3 league in Alberta rather than open-ended in duration?

37th Minute John McGrane

http://www.nextsportstar.com/index.php/show/red-card-december-4th-2013/

"There's a serious movement in the next couple of years to have a Canadian Premier League"

That's probably why the CSA is sticking to its guns.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

If there were anything concrete to any of that the Easton Report process would have unfolded very differently.

[DigzTFC]

If there were anything concrete to any of that the Easton Report process would have unfolded very differently.

Not necessarily. The report itself was initiated 2 years ago and was released this year. I spoke with Mr. Easton and the CSA delayed its publication for a long time. I think the landscape has changed since they did their initial investigations. Few people had confidence the NASL would progress as much as it has and didn't account for the Canadian interest - Calgary, Hamilton, Quebec City, Ottawa and Winnipeg. Couple that with stadium development across the country, it may have changed the appetite.

I don't know how legitimate it is but there are rumblings from multiple sources about this that seem to indicate something is happening beyond semi-pro.

Also, I spoke with CFL commissioner Mark Cohon and he seems to think a community owned Halifax CFL team may happen in the next few years if the Premier Savage can rally the province to help foot the bill. The CSA has not approached him about a league but he knows they've had discussions with facility owners about teams (NASL I would assume).

I know we've disagreed in the past over what is appropriate Div 3 and Div 2 but there are patterns the indicate something is happening. Whether it is just exploratory.... I don't know.

[dobar dan]

The provincial D3 sanctioned league, if it actually gets off the ground, will be nowhere close to the level of play in the USL Pro, we need to stop kidding ourselves: Orlando City had on the average 6,000 fans at home games, USL Pro final had 20,000 in attendance. I watched one of their home games this past season and the level of play was high. The new proposed League 1, teams can either be semi pro or all amateur, first mistake offering two options, why would anyone spend an additional $40,000 more than a team that is all amateur to play in the same league! We will not get fans paying or watching 18-20 year olds that just stepped out of a youth club rep system

The CSA not sanctioning Canadian teams into the USL is preventing development of our players, unless they have plans for the Canadian Professional league to be launched in the next couple of years, then it makes sense, but if the CSA is relying on the semi pro/full amateur league to supply players for our national program they are dreaming. We need a professional league or players playing in a professional league to advance our players.

[DigzTFC]

The CSA not sanctioning Canadian teams into the USL is preventing development of our players, unless they have plans for the Canadian Professional league to be launched in the next couple of years, then it makes sense, but if the CSA is relying on the semi pro/full amateur league to supply players for our national program they are dreaming. We need a professional league or players playing in a professional league to advance our players.

The people at the CSA are just a logical as you.

Do you think Montagliani would prevent teams for no reason?

Everything he's done is to allow the CDN game to be better managed.

- CSA BoD Construction/Alignment

- Spanish Head Coach

- Div 3 Regional League Player Development Model

- Div 2 League Study

I think more credit is deserved for the progress off the field. Unforgettably, on the field is where they're judged and it's not pretty.

[dobar dan]

DigzTFC

This is my view on things which I'm entitled to express...... my point incase you missed it, the D3 provincial league is not of the same standard as that of the USL Pro. I am a lot closer to all this than you know. I am happy the CSA appointed a Spanish coach, it is a positive move instead of the recycling they have done for years: No doubt there has been progression under Victor's guidance, but it takes way too long to get things done, we just need to look to the south of us and how far they have come in the development of the game, and they have greater challenges than us, as in competing with Football, baseball and basketball.

Div 3 Regional Dev model, lets re-visit this in two years, a ball hasn't been kicked yet and all it is at this time are words on paper. As for the Div 2 study, they wasted a ton of money for someone to write a report that anyone connected with the game already knew, the money they spent on that should have went towards the development of the player at national youth level. Do you honestly think that report helped D3 get formed.....don't be naive, League 1 was already in discussion before the Easton report: We don't need a D2 league, we need a full time professional league in Canada.

Which brings me to, under FIFA rules if a Country operates a full time professional league no pro teams can play outside of that country in another pro league, where does that leave the 3 MLS teams, and 2 NASL teams, by FIFA (not CSA) law they must play within the rules.

For the sake of Canadian soccer and the true development of our youth I hope the Country gets it's own Professional league, a true pathway for the youth player, in an environment of professionalism and not volunteer operated youth clubs with volunteer coaches.

[Guest ClaytonA]

DigzTFC

This is my view on things which I'm entitled to express...... my point incase you missed it, the D3 provincial league is not of the same standard as that of the USL Pro. I am a lot closer to all this than you know. I am happy the CSA appointed a Spanish coach, it is a positive move instead of the recycling they have done for years: No doubt there has been progression under Victor's guidance, but it takes way too long to get things done, we just need to look to the south of us and how far they have come in the development of the game, and they have greater challenges than us, as in competing with Football, baseball and basketball.

Div 3 Regional Dev model, lets re-visit this in two years, a ball hasn't been kicked yet and all it is at this time are words on paper. As for the Div 2 study, they wasted a ton of money for someone to write a report that anyone connected with the game already knew, the money they spent on that should have went towards the development of the player at national youth level. Do you honestly think that report helped D3 get formed.....don't be naive, League 1 was already in discussion before the Easton report: We don't need a D2 league, we need a full time professional league in Canada.

Which brings me to, under FIFA rules if a Country operates a full time professional league no pro teams can play outside of that country in another pro league, where does that leave the 3 MLS teams, and 2 NASL teams, by FIFA (not CSA) law they must play within the rules.

For the sake of Canadian soccer and the true development of our youth I hope the Country gets it's own Professional league, a true pathway for the youth player, in an environment of professionalism and not volunteer operated youth clubs with volunteer coaches.

First step is allowing all teams to compete in the Canadian Championship; amateur teams fundraise and managed to go across the country for amateur nationals as it is. Let the winners from Oct into the following April's rounds, 5 months to fundraise, get time off work etc. Let previous year's cup champions from PLSQ and League 1 in, again 5 months. Right now it's all in the east, regionalize it with the bigger teams, MLS, NASL subsidizing and semi-pro/amateur teams that manage an upset. Let people behind the game get a taste of what playing for the national championship is like in a cup tie situation. It's way more plausible to make that jump for 1 away game than it is for 16 league games.

Aside: Yes USL Pro is probably a higher level, but Orlando's attendences are not representative of USL Pro and using them loses you credibility with some of us familiar with Div2. The USL Pro averages of 2,611 is also much higher than anything we have in PLSQ or League 1/CSL.

[DigzTFC]

DigzTFC

This is my view on things which I'm entitled to express...... my point incase you missed it

I apologize if you were left with the impression that I thought you weren't entitled to your opinion.

So to clarify, your end game is:

- you want the three MLS teams and the 2 NASL teams to leave their leagues and join a Canadian one?

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

The people at the CSA are just a logical as you.

From what I remember you are a relative newcomer to our sport. Given the history of Canadian soccer, it is not safe to assume that the people at the CSA are driven by logic.

[DigzTFC]

From what I remember you are a relative newcomer to our sport. Given the history of Canadian soccer, it is not safe to assume that the people at the CSA are driven by logic.

Newcomer in the sense that I've been following the CMNT program since 2006?

I won't debate whether its safe to make the assumption because that discussion leads no where productive.

What I will ask: Why have you dismissed John McGrane's 15 minute discussion on a Canadian Premier League?

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

....Why have you dismissed John McGrane's 15 minute discussion on a Canadian Premier League?

Because having followed Canadian soccer for considerably longer than 6 or 7 years, I've heard it all before along with much the same spiel from other people with a messiah complex where forming a Canadian national soccer league is concerned. I'm a bit surprised that John McGrane has gone down that particular road because he seems to have been able to make rational business decisions when it comes to running indoor soccer facilities.

[DigzTFC]

Because having followed Canadian soccer for considerably longer than 6 or 7 years, I've heard it all before along with much the same spiel from other people with a messiah complex where forming a Canadian national soccer league is concerned. I'm a bit surprised that John McGrane has gone down that particular road because he seems to have been able to make rational business decisions when it comes to running indoor soccer facilities.

I respect John McGrane's opinion and thought it was newsworthy.

You can think what you want of my "lack of experience". I'll reduce my posts if it doesn't contribute to the conversation.

[Redcoatsforever]

You can think what you want of my "lack of experience". I'll reduce my posts if it doesn't contribute to the conversation.

Don't reduce your posts, they contribute just fine. BBTB is just dismissive of anyone who thinks we could have leagues that don't operate cross-border.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

I respect John McGrane's opinion and thought it was newsworthy.

Translation: you like what he has to say for emotional reasons and are likely to now proceed to feed his ego by taking it seriously. If anything has changed over the last decade or two it has been that the number of people doing that whenever the next would be messiah has appeared on the scene has plummeted. There was a time when it was very much the mainstream posture on the Voyageurs messagebord.

The CSA were desperate for a fully pro D2 level league to launch alongside a stadium building program to go with the 2015 Women's World Cup. They gave up on that and opted for the amateur/semi-pro U-23 approach of L1O instead when the feedback they received from the people that mattered was almost universally negative. It is exceedingly unlikely that anything has changed since then given the NASL is now going from strength to strength and there is no rational reason to believe that a Canada-only approach is likely to be more successful than a North American one at the D2 level.

[DigzTFC]

How many Canadian teams will be accepted into the NASL in your opinion?