USA v. Bosnia

[Addona]

How so? Without MLS, there will be less Americans playing professional these days which will result in less depth and quality in their national team. Just imagine where would guys like Landon Donovan be without MLS. Same could be said about some of Canadian players like DeRo (who struggle playing overseas).

Well, LD has been in MLS for over 10 years. I thought you were referring to recent improvements to their depth being due to recent improvements in MLS quality. They have depth, no doubt. The question is whether the additional depth they have compared to, say, 5 years ago is because of improved quality in MLS. Maybe to some extent. BUT, the following current players who have been added to the pool recently (in the last few years) help their depth a lot:

F. Johnson

Chandler

J. Jones

D. Williams

Boyd

Brooks

Johansson

Diskerud

Corona

Castillo

Bedoya

+ bunches of other players who don't have much to do with MLS

Don't get me wrong, I'd kill to have their depth. They are basically immune to injury because the guy coming off the bench is as good as the guy who gets hurt (except maybe for a few players: Bradley, Jozy).

[Canuck in Boston]

How is it debatable? They just won the Gold cup with what was essentially an MLS based team.

I like where this thread has gone. USA hosted the WC in '94 with the provision the starts domestic league, they did and the results since speak for the league. Anyone who doesn't think MLS is a part of their success is a fool. Obviously money is the leading factor.

[smartlikefox]

Gold Cup aside, even the last WCQ the US had against Honduras was primarily MLS based/produced starting 11

Tim Howard

Omar Gonzalez

Michael Bradley

Matt Besler

Brad Evans

Clint Dempsey

Eddie Johnson

Jozy Altidore

Graham Zusi

The only 2 guys that weren't (Jones and Johnson) are German born Americans.

[TFC07]

Well, LD has been in MLS for over 10 years. I thought you were referring to recent improvements to their depth being due to recent improvements in MLS quality. They have depth, no doubt. The question is whether the additional depth they have compared to, say, 5 years ago is because of improved quality in MLS. Maybe to some extent. BUT, the following current players who have been added to the pool recently (in the last few years) help their depth a lot:

F. Johnson

Chandler

J. Jones

D. Williams

Boyd

Brooks

Johansson

Diskerud

Corona

Castillo

Bedoya

+ bunches of other players who don't have much to do with MLS

Don't get me wrong, I'd kill to have their depth. They are basically immune to injury because the guy coming off the bench is as good as the guy who gets hurt (except maybe for a few players: Bradley, Jozy).

Even without those players, USA has enough players to fill in and be a superpower in CONCACAF and doing enough to get out of group stages in world cup.

Now all that being said here when comes to USMNT, what USA is desperately missing is a world class player. They got a lot of good players, but not that one world class player who can lead USA of winning world cup. They're producing very good players, but they failed to produce world class players like other soccer nations do.

[Obinna]

Gold Cup aside, even the last WCQ the US had against Honduras was primarily MLS based/produced starting 11

Tim Howard

Omar Gonzalez

Michael Bradley

Matt Besler

Brad Evans

Clint Dempsey

Eddie Johnson

Jozy Altidore

Graham Zusi

The only 2 guys that weren't (Jones and Johnson) are German born Americans.

Very true.

For whatever reason, MLS has more of a presence on the USMNT roster than it did a few years ago.

It use to be that the "A" team would generally be the European guys, while the "B" team would be mostly MLS players. This is no longer the case. You now see players like Eddie Johnson, Graham Zusi, Matt Besler, Omar Gonzalez as part of that "A" group. Johnson in particular is interesting as he owes his re-emergence to coming back to MLS from Europe. Now you have Goodson and Dempsey (both part of that core) coming to MLS. Bocanegra is back as well, and there is talk of Jermaine Jones moving to MLS on a free transfer after this upcoming season. This is a significant shift that is underway folks.

[Obinna]

Now all that being said here when comes to USMNT, what USA is desperately missing is a world class player. They got a lot of good players, but not that one world class player who can lead USA of winning world cup. They're producing very good players, but they failed to produce world class players like other soccer nations do.

Altidore might be the first one to be that real, world class player. He is still only 23 and just came off two seasons at AZ where he scored buckets of goals. He had a hat trick against Bosnia including a sublime curling free kick from about 20 yards out. I think he has turned the corner, but lets see what kind of season he has Sunderland first.

[red card]

Canada was ahead of the US for many years till the 90s. The US took off post 94 while Canada regressed. We need to stop going backwards and at least move forward like an average country to start narrowing the gap.

[nolando]

+1. Except Honduras.

+1

[Obinna]

Canada was ahead of the US for many years till the 90s. The US took off post 94 while Canada regressed. We need to stop going backwards and at least move forward like an average country to start narrowing the gap.

I hate to come off as pessimistic, but being realistic here, I really think we are in checkmate.

A top flight league of our own to compete with MLS will not happen, as our biggest markets are locked into the American system. With only 3 MLS teams, and no equality in terms of domestic status down south, I really cannot see how we are going to even keep pace (let alone narrow the gap).

If we are able to add one more MLS team by 2020 when the league will reach 24 teams (I assume they will stop expansion here), and if we are able to add another 3 or 4 NASL teams to complement FC Edmonton, I think we might be able to slow the widening of the gap between them and us. Anything short of that and I really do not fancy our chances.

[Keegan]

I hate to come off as pessimistic, but being realistic here, I really think we are in checkmate.

A top flight league of our own to compete with MLS will not happen, as our biggest markets are locked into the American system. With only 3 MLS teams, and no equality in terms of domestic status down south, I really cannot see how we are going to even keep pace (let alone narrow the gap).

If we are able to add one more MLS team by 2020 when the league will reach 24 teams (I assume they will stop expansion here), and if we are able to add another 3 or 4 NASL teams to complement FC Edmonton, I think we might be able to slow the widening of the gap between them and us. Anything short of that and I really do not fancy our chances.

If we get Canadians counted as domestics in MLS league wide we're in the same situation that Canada is in hockey are we not? I don't see this as check mate at all. Add in the fact that footy will most likely become the undisputed most popular sport beside hockey in Canada and we're in a better position. There is no chance that footy will overtake mainstream popularity of the NBA, MLB and NFL in the United States. With a stronger focus on footy combined with a u23 league to nurture the talent CHL style there is no doubt in my mind we'll be at least on par with the USA. We can do it, but do we have the right leadership?

[canucklefan]

If we get Canadians counted as domestics in MLS league wide we're in the same situation that Canada is in hockey are we not?

The CSA doesn't bother at all to increase the Canadian quota. The 3 Canadian MLS clubs don't field enough Canadian players. Do you think the US clubs and USSF are interested in counting Canadians as domestic? To make a comparison with the NHL, if there were a significant number of talented Canadian football players as there is with Canadian hockey players, MLS would definitely consider to count Canadians as domestics in the US.

[CUJO]

Just threw up in my mouth hearing the ESPN commentators saying Begovic would have played for Canada, only they told him Lars was their choice. What a piece of ****e.

I dont get it what is the noteworthy topic here? youre saying that begovic said that he would play for bosnia because lars started over him in one game?

[Keegan]

The CSA doesn't bother at all to increase the Canadian quota. The 3 Canadian MLS clubs don't field enough Canadian players. Do you think the US clubs and USSF are interested in counting Canadians as domestic? To make a comparison with the NHL, if there were a significant number of talented Canadian football players as there is with Canadian hockey players, MLS would definitely consider to count Canadians as domestics in the US.

No, not at the moment we don't so it's not an issue anyway. But in 5 years time that is going to be a completely different story and that's where the national U23 league comes in.

[jonovision]

Canada was ahead of the US for many years till the 90s. The US took off post 94 while Canada regressed. We need to stop going backwards and at least move forward like an average country to start narrowing the gap.

If both countries are taking soccer equally seriously, USA should be a much better soccer nation than Canada. With income relatively equal, the population difference (10 times as large) and better climate (12-month playing/training conditions in much of the country) are almost insurmountable advantages.

What shouldn't be insurmountable should be getting ahead of the rest of CONCACAF, bar Mexico.

[BearcatSA]

Gold Cup aside, even the last WCQ the US had against Honduras was primarily MLS based/produced starting 11

Tim Howard

Omar Gonzalez

Michael Bradley

Matt Besler

Brad Evans

Clint Dempsey

Eddie Johnson

Jozy Altidore

Graham Zusi

The only 2 guys that weren't (Jones and Johnson) are German born Americans.

I see that he was just made a DP by the Galaxy.

[Obinna]

If we get Canadians counted as domestics in MLS league wide we're in the same situation that Canada is in hockey are we not?

I do not think this is going to happen. It would be great if it did, and it would be a game changer for us, but there is no indication that this is on the horizon.

[Obinna]

If both countries are taking soccer equally seriously, USA should be a much better soccer nation than Canada. With income relatively equal, the population difference (10 times as large) and better climate (12-month playing/training conditions in much of the country) are almost insurmountable advantages.

I think that is debatable.

For example, France has a population nearly 10 times larger than Sweden. Both countries are comparable economically, and France has a climate much more suitable than Sweden. Sure historically France is better, but they are very comparable today, and Sweden has had some great showings on the world stage in the past too (finished 3rd in USA 94). So this shows that there are exceptions.

I think that population can be a factor, but we have 35 million people, so we have more than enough people. Also, the real number to look at in terms of demographics is the ratio of people registered in the sport over the total population. That would mitigate the 300 million population of the US to a degree, since one can imagine that more Canadians play soccer relative to the population than south of the boarder.

[jonovision]

Does Canada have more youth soccer players per capita? If so, that is an advantage that will also surely be disappearing quickly with the explosion of the Latin American population in the US.

I'm not saying we'll never beat the USA, but we are unlikely to be consistently better in the medium-future. More likely, a "golden generation" of Canadians could give us a leg up for a few years.

[TFC07]

Does Canada have more youth soccer players per capita? If so, that is an advantage that will also surely be disappearing quickly with the explosion of the Latin American population in the US.

I'm not saying we'll never beat the USA, but we are unlikely to be consistently better in the medium-future. More likely, a "golden generation" of Canadians could give us a leg up for a few years.

Assuming if Latin American population keeps on growing and don't "assimilate" into American society. Also remember, a lot of Latinos in USA come from baseball nations.

I think problem with Canada is that there isn't enough options to play the game and lack of teachers/coaches to teach to play the game properly. That being said, if we look at past 5 years, we have been improving even though results haven't been visible in national team. It's a long process to fix soccer in this country, but we are seeing some life for the game in this country.

[Bertuzzi44]

Canada could use some of that latino flair. Possession footy, good ball skills, attack-minded. I still find Canada plays more like a British team, like, ugh, Scotland or something.

That's why - despite their weaknesses - I think Canada could use more players like DeRo and Aleman. Actually Teibert plays like this too, and hopefully Cavallini.

[TFC07]

Canada could use some of that latino flair. Possession footy, good ball skills, attack-minded. I still find Canada plays more like a British team, like, ugh, Scotland or something.

That's why - despite their weaknesses - I think Canada could use more players like DeRo and Aleman. Actually Teibert plays like this too, and hopefully Cavallini.

I actually find recent Canadian team plays more technical and possession game like many mainland European teams do. Canada doesn't boot the ball up like they use to, but instead hold on the ball a lot more. What is lacking is finishing touch and discipline/IQ in the back line.

[TheKottonmouthed1555362307]

So, if that's the case, do they just exceptionally underperform when we play them (last 4 results against them: 1-2, 0-2, 0-0, 0-0)?

No, I think we overperform. They are the Rivals, but it is pretty clear we barely a noisy neighbour when you take a step back and look at the success' and struggles of both programs.

We will always give are hardest when it comes to Maple Leaf against the Stars and Stripes, no matter the sport/activity.

[Macksam]

I hate to come off as pessimistic, but being realistic here, I really think we are in checkmate.

A top flight league of our own to compete with MLS will not happen, as our biggest markets are locked into the American system. With only 3 MLS teams, and no equality in terms of domestic status down south, I really cannot see how we are going to even keep pace (let alone narrow the gap).

If we are able to add one more MLS team by 2020 when the league will reach 24 teams (I assume they will stop expansion here), and if we are able to add another 3 or 4 NASL teams to complement FC Edmonton, I think we might be able to slow the widening of the gap between them and us. Anything short of that and I really do not fancy our chances.

MLS will got to about 32 teams.

As for the rest of this, I think it all depends on how successfully we implement a system that can feed players into MLS. Right now, without a proper system in place, we're capable of developing young, highly skilled, MLS players (RT and Lindsay...had it not been for the injury). When things develop more (USL pro affiliates, L1O and all that), we'll be in much better shape. To close the gap, all we need to do is best the NCAA. That's not so hard.

[Obinna]

That's why - despite their weaknesses - I think Canada could use more players like DeRo and Aleman. Actually Teibert plays like this too, and hopefully Cavallini.

These are some of my favorite players for this reason. I would also put Osorio and Nakajima in that category of technical offensive players.

jonovision has a good point about the increasing Latin influence in the USA. Of course you have many Dominicans, Cubans, and Puerto Ricans, but the main influence in terms of numbers is undoubtedly Mexico.

[Keegan]

I do not think this is going to happen. It would be great if it did, and it would be a game changer for us, but there is no indication that this is on the horizon.

When national analysts are questioning the commissioner on national TV you can bet it's in the works, this is just the beginning. Canada is a gold mine for MLS, they're going to do what's best for the league. For now they can make excuses because it doesn't matter, we don't have enough players anyway. But when players start coming up it's not just going to be us that wants them as domestics. In the future with more Canadian talent our teams will be at a serious advantage having US players count as domestics so I think at the very least maybe each American team will be allowed 3 Canadians that won't count as internationals for parity sake.

Think about it this way... what is going to hurt US soccer more: 1) a few Canadians on each American team or 2) Canadian teams winning championships