Should Canada have to qualify for the gold cup?

[Canadian_Soccer]

After losing to arguably a minnow and years of mediocre/disappointing results, I'm wondering if we really should have an automatic bid to the gold cup. I don't want to go over poor results from recent memory to back up the fact that we are not an elite CONCACAF nation like Mexico or USA (who receive automatic bids to the gold cup)

So we probably don't deserve to automatically qualify based on rankings and results. So I ask you, should we have to qualify like many other nations? We would have the benefits of additional matches to let floro work his system and ultimately gel as a team. The downside is that there is a chance we may not qualify for the tournament which is frankly embarrassing for a nation like Canada. What are your thoughts on if we should have to qualify and would it benefit us?

[Scottie]

We absolutely should have to qualify, and the fact that we get in automatically is detrimental to our program. Stick us in with central american qualifying! They have 7 teams so always unbalanced groups (1 of 4, 1 of 3). In all likelihood, we'd miss out on a gold cup or two, but even if that happened we'd essentially be replacing 3 gold cup group matches with 3 group matches against the teams we need to be competitive against. Qualifying for the gold cup would be a bonus at that point, and we'd probably play a lot better once there. Also, the central american tournament is a group and knockout format, meaning that if we were to get out of the group we could have an additional 1 or 2 COMPETITIVE matches before the gold cup even starts! Hell we could even host this tournament if they let us play in it. A man can dream.

The only reason we qualify for the gold cup automatically is the geographical inconvenience of putting us into central american or caribbean qualifying. The whole "past champions" thing is complete and utter BS. If costa rica or honduras were to win the gold cup, would they never play qualifying matches again? I highly doubt it.

[canadianfoot]

Yup +1 totally agree we need to start to have to qualify again. Not sure how in what part of CONCACAF but we need to have to qualify again. Even if we have to go thru 3-4 qualifying rounds before getting into the group stage. If we get EMBARASSED BY A MINNOW SO BE IT.

[shamrock]

Good idea. Would be for the domestic players though, as most oversees players wouldn't be too interested (but I don't see any problem with that).

[Grizzly]

On sporting ground we probably should have to go through qualification. However, given this tournament is all about money as can be seen in the fact that the US is the eternal host I doubt the merit or playing level of the Canadian team goes into the calculation. There are not a lot of rich countries with large populations in CONCACAF so they really want us in this tournament for financial reasons whether we deserve it or not. The Gold Cup victory gives them a convenient excuse to give us automatic qualification.

[Max]

Every nation should qualify. Just the best countries should take part in continental championship.

[Gordon]

On sporting ground we probably should have to go through qualification. However, given this tournament is all about money as can be seen in the fact that the US is the eternal host I doubt the merit or playing level of the Canadian team goes into the calculation. There are not a lot of rich countries with large populations in CONCACAF so they really want us in this tournament for financial reasons whether we deserve it or not. The Gold Cup victory gives them a convenient excuse to give us automatic qualification.

I think it is a bit more complicated that that Griz...Canada is included because The Gold Cup absolutely wants the US and Mexico in the tourney, and those teams prefer to play higher profile friendlies than qualifying rounds against CONCACAF minnows. The past champions rule is simply an excuse to get them in and we benefit from it. Another you refer to relative to money, but for many CONCAF nations playing a qualifier in Canada is an expense they can't afford. They currently qualify regionally, which keeps costs reasonable. I know you recall Belieze having to sell their home WCQ to us in order to finance their trip up here. I don;t think CONCACAF cares if we are in the tourney or not, rather, the only way they can figure out how to maximize their takes, just so hapens to benefit us. Thye could look at letting in all the previous cycle WC teams, or the hex teams, but that starts to add an element of risk as well (albeit small) as well as potentially making the existing qualifying system less viable depending on who it is and where they are located (aside from the obvious).

[killgod]

Qualifying for the GC won't happen because it comes at a cost CONCACAF can't afford.

How many people are going to show up for a Canada v Random Minnow GC qualifier?

Can Caribbean nations afford to come up here for matches when the host (us) likely will take a loss on it?

Group stage matches at this event don't draw without USA or Mexico, hence the "buy one get two matches" situation, and still nobody shows up for the first match.

The reasoning I believe, is financial. It's easier for them to do the Caribbean Cup where costs are minimal, than to have all of those nations flying up to Canada. So they just give us a berth because as bad as we're showing to be, we're still not worse than 12th in this federation.

Also, if you're a tin foil hat wearer and believe CONCACAF isn't interested in Canada having success, well then those matches would feed us alot of FIFA points we otherwise don't get.

[hamiltonfan]

CSA should forfeit their automatic qualification. Qualifying team should be a predominately MLS (North American) based squad, with the mix of overseas player if results are need and in question.

[ray]

CSA should forfeit their automatic qualification. Qualifying team should be a predominately MLS (North American) based squad, with the mix of overseas player if results are need and in question.

I remember the anger amongst many Voyageurs when Canada ceded its place in the '98 Gold Cup to Jamaica. Just seems funny thinking about giving it up again .

[SchteveTown]

well then those matches would feed us alot of FIFA points we otherwise don't get.

We would have to actually win those matches to get FIFA ranking points. That is not a given at this point in our program's development.

[amacpher]

Qualifying for the GC won't happen because it comes at a cost CONCACAF can't afford.

How many people are going to show up for a Canada v Random Minnow GC qualifier?

Can Caribbean nations afford to come up here for matches when the host (us) likely will take a loss on it?

.

They won't need to come to Canada. That's not how Gold Cup qualifying works. It's just a mini-tournament played in one country in the middle of winter so Canada would probably never host it.

Canada v Guatemala in Costa Rica won't draw many people, but it would be no worse than Nicaragua v Guatemala.

[xcalibre]

that one-off qualifying tournament for the 2000 Gold Cup probably helped the team gel. I vaguely remember Pizzolito scoring against El Salvador?

[Canadian_Soccer]

We should probably ask to qualify for the gold cup, but I don't know if the CSA will be willing to do that. It would definitely benefit us as we would get extra matches and since the Central American groups are unbalanced (as pointed out earlier) it works out to 2 groups of 4. It would be mainly MLS players and maybe young international players, so we will get to possibly see more new faces and if they fit in the system. So more playing time for those who may not get much in other matches.

[amacpher]

It would be mainly MLS players and maybe young international players, so we will get to possibly see more new faces and if they fit in the system. So more playing time for those who may not get much in other matches.

Well, perhaps this is going too far, but if there was only 1 Gold Cup every 4-year cycle then you wouldn't have to settle for MLS players in these qualifiers. The qualifiers could be played in the 2-week period in June that is reserved for FIFA internationals. And then the final tournament itself could be played on the even year between World Cups. That way neither the Gold Cup qualifiers or final tournament would get tangled-up with WC qualifiers.

[Admin]

I appreciate that a common Canadian trait is self deprecating humor ... but I would prefer we qualify and utilize whatever resources that might free up for use on our own terms.

Seeing we now have someone in charge that people might actually learn something from... a longer camp with a good friendly might be better than playing the bottom souls of the Caribbean.

I can't say for sure how such a calculus might play out in competing development terms... but I can't see abdicating such a position as a good idea.

[Keegan]

I appreciate that a common Canadian trait is self deprecating humor ... but I would prefer we qualify and utilize whatever resources that might free up for use on our own terms.

Seeing we now have someone in charge that people might actually learn something from... a longer camp with a good friendly might be better than playing the bottom souls of the Caribbean.

I can't say for sure how such a calculus might play out in competing development terms... but I can't see abdicating such a position as a good idea.

I think from a WCQ perspective it would be very positive for Floro and the players to have to qualify for the 2015 Gold Cup.

[johnyb]

They won't need to come to Canada. That's not how Gold Cup qualifying works. It's just a mini-tournament played in one country in the middle of winter so Canada would probably never host it.

Canada v Guatemala in Costa Rica won't draw many people, but it would be no worse than Nicaragua v Guatemala.

Sounds like a pretty good road trip! Canada playing a qualifying Tourny (Multiple Games) in the Caribbean in the Winter. Also gives us an other oppourtunity to Cap-Tie players as this would be an official Tournamnet. I'm all for it!

[Admin]

Sounds like a pretty good road trip! Canada playing a qualifying Tourny (Multiple Games) in the Caribbean in the Winter. Also gives us an other oppourtunity to Cap-Tie players as this would be an official Tournamnet. I'm all for it!

Ok, you make a very very very good point.

Now I am all for this!

If Caribbean qualifying is a winter tourney... Uhm... yes. Please let us in.

[Joe Keeper]

that one-off qualifying tournament for the 2000 Gold Cup probably helped the team gel. I vaguely remember Pizzolito scoring against El Salvador?

+1 Look at how much good that prelim round did our team before the semi final group stage in WCQ. We aren't producing all that bad of players really, we just don't play enough games, competitive or friendly.

I think not playing a couple of international warm ups before that horrible game against Martinique was the biggest problem. The CSA have been doing a much better job lately overall, and granted the team and coach must take the lions share of the blame, but they dropped the ball by only scheduling an effing game against PDL side. What the hell did they think was going to happen? We could have scheduled a game against any one or two of the nations in the other groups. Play the PDL side, sure, but what was to stop us organizing another game against T AND T or Belize etc...? Anyone would have done.

All I can assume is that the CSA didnt want to splash out more funds pre-GC because they are really treating the whole tournament like a friendly training camp, even if they wont admit that publicly. They are probably holding back on more quality friendlies for when Floro takes over in August.

If I had my choice, I would say that if concacrap wants to take the confederation to the next level or profile internationally they should:

- Make the Gold Cup a major tournament every four years.

- Everyone has to qualify - this would ensure more competitive and regular games for us as well as the minnows. Imagine how much better we would probably be by getting a full slate of regular qualifying games for the WC and continental cup like European nations.

- Have a series of 2 to 3 qualifying rounds. This way the minnows wouldn't have to rack up large travel expenses. Only if they qualified for the latter rounds would they have to come here or to Mexico to play. When you really think about it, the traveling for the Caribbean minnows would not be that bad. Most of their travel would be to Central America to play which is not that far away. If they have to play the USA, the games could be held closer to the southern latitudes.

- Schedule regular qualifying round for the WC and GC one after the other, year in and year out, like Uefa does for their qualifiers. The stability in schedule would help development across the region by being more organized. This would ensure regular competitive games for everyone.

- Expand the tournament to 16 teams (all concacaf, none of this guest garbage). This would give the minnows so much more to shoot for.

- Rotate the GC host. Their is no reason that us or Mexico should not hold the tournament once in a while. You could even have a few Central American nations co-hosting.

However, this is concacaf and change is the enemy to them. I doubt this option would ever be considered. They care more about lining their coffers by trying for a biennial tournamnet always in the USA and hoping for a Mexico USA final. Concacaf really is its own worst enemy ultimately. The current state of competitions is really holding all of the nations in the back, not just us.

[Grizzly]

+1 Look at how much good that prelim round did our team before the semi final group stage in WCQ. We aren't producing all that bad of players really, we just don't play enough games, competitive or friendly.

how much good that prelim round did our team before the semi final group stage in WCQ. WTF?

I agree that extra games are good for preparation but did you watch how we played in the semi-final group or the preliminary round for that matter? Extra games are better than no games but the key part is how you use them to prepare. In the recent WCQ we played bad in the preliminary round and that prepared us to play bad in the semi-final round.

[canadianfoot]

how much good that prelim round did our team before the semi final group stage in WCQ. WTF?

I agree that extra games are good for preparation but did you watch how we played in the semi-final group or the preliminary round for that matter? Extra games are better than no games but the key part is how you use them to prepare. In the recent WCQ we played bad in the preliminary round and that prepared us to play bad in the semi-final round.

But NOW we have Floro!!!! A cure for all of CSA headaches.....

[Villa_Canuck]

Well if cost is an issue have it once a year. Make the tournament worthwhile and actually let other countries host it. The Carribbean hosted a Cricket world cup with 4 venues. Just a thought.

and YES. MAKE US QUALIFY

[redhat]

I remember the anger amongst many Voyageurs when Canada ceded its place in the '98 Gold Cup to Jamaica. Just seems funny thinking about giving it up again .

I remember that too. And qualification for the 2000 GC wasn't easy either. So no I think we should not cede anything given, the CSA just have to treat this event more seriously and prepare more than ever, with the team that will play. None of these "C" or "B" teams representing us on friendlies against big football countries and learn absolutely nothing from our mistakes.

[killgod]

They won't need to come to Canada. That's not how Gold Cup qualifying works. It's just a mini-tournament played in one country in the middle of winter so Canada would probably never host it.

Canada v Guatemala in Costa Rica won't draw many people, but it would be no worse than Nicaragua v Guatemala.

Lets not forget us, can we afford to fly there? What players would even get released or want to play, if we struggle to get guys to come to the actual tournament.