Fraser Aird

[Oranje]

10 minutes ago, Obinna said:

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one my friend. 

In my opinion, Morgan is definitely not suited to play as a left winger. Just because he can get to the touchline and whip in a cross does not mean he is suited to play at LW. For a second just consider Tissot; a player who started as a LB and has transitioned into a useful LW. Can he get to the touchline and whip in a cross? Absolutely, but there is much more to his game that you need to play higher up the pitch. He has tools that Morgan doesn't have. When Tissot plays at LW, he actually looks like a winger. Morgan looks uncomfortable; he looks like a wing back who is playing out of position (because he is - in my humble opinion). Morgan is just way too predictable to play higher up the pitch. He is a one trick pony who doesn't appear able to mix it up.

For me, Adekugbe is very much the same as Morgan. He has pace, gets to the touch line, delivers balls into the box. I can see that he may have something that would allow him to develop into a Tissot type player, but at this stage of his development he is very left foot dependent and relies on beating players on the outside. There is really not much else he does offensively and unlike Tissot, he doesn't look comfortable further up the pitch either.

Aird is COMPLETELY different. His instincts are offensive. I have seen a willingness and ability to cut inside to beat his man. I have seen a player who is confident in tight space (something I don't see from Morgan and Adekugbe). I have seen a player who is much more complete.

@Unnamed Trialist sees Aird more of a project than Adekugbe; for me it's the other way around. Aird looks like a player who has played upwards of 70 professional matches. Adekugbe has played maybe 20 (or 30 if you count USL) and it shows. The level of the Scottish 1st and 2nd division is low and even the Scottish Championship is not a high level, but it is all professional and it's the reason Aird is much less of a project of a player than Adekugbe. There is no doubt in my mind about that.

It is natural given the gulf of experience between the two (and they are the same age to boot). Aird played at a low level but Rangers are still a big club. They promoted twice and he was a part of that. The pressure, the expectations of Rangers promoting, the crowds at Ibrox of 30 and 40 thousand he played in front of at every home fixture; all of that is valuable and meaningful and meaningful games take players out of the "development" phase. Adekugbe doesn't have that experience YET.

 agree to disagree, I don't think Morgan has a defensive bone in his body

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, Oranje said:

 agree to disagree, I don't think Morgan has a defensive bone in his body

haha just to set the record straight, I think Morgan's defensive positioning is poor. He is a good recovery defender because he is athletic but yeah, his defensive positioning needs work.

[C2SKI]

Adekugbe seems to suddenly mature into a more complete player when he's on the pitch with Kianz, and Bustos. There have been a few passages between the 3 of them that have given me hope.

[Unnamed Trialist]

7 hours ago, Obinna said:

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one my friend. 

In my opinion, Morgan is definitely not suited to play as a left winger. Just because he can get to the touchline and whip in a cross does not mean he is suited to play at LW. For a second just consider Tissot; a player who started as a LB and has transitioned into a useful LW. Can he get to the touchline and whip in a cross? Absolutely, but there is much more to his game that you need to play higher up the pitch. He has tools that Morgan doesn't have. When Tissot plays at LW, he actually looks like a winger. Morgan looks uncomfortable; he looks like a wing back who is playing out of position (because he is - in my humble opinion). Morgan is just way too predictable to play higher up the pitch. He is a one trick pony who doesn't appear able to mix it up. 

For me, Adekugbe is very much the same as Morgan. He has pace, gets to the touch line, delivers balls into the box. I can see that he may have something that would allow him to develop into a Tissot type player, but at this stage of his development he is very left foot dependent and relies on beating players on the outside. There is really not much else he does offensively and unlike Tissot, he doesn't look comfortable further up the pitch either.

Aird is COMPLETELY different. His instincts are offensive. I have seen a willingness and ability to cut inside to beat his man. I have seen a player who is confident in tight space (something I don't see from Morgan and Adekugbe). I have seen a player who is much more complete.

@Unnamed Trialist sees Aird more of a project than Adekugbe; for me it's the other way around. Aird looks like a player who has played upwards of 70 professional matches. Adekugbe has played maybe 20 (or 30 if you count USL) and it shows. The level of the Scottish 1st and 2nd division is low and even the Scottish Championship is not a high level, but it is all professional and it's the reason Aird is much less of a project of a player than Adekugbe. There is no doubt in my mind about that.

It is natural given the gulf of experience between the two (and they are the same age to boot). Aird played at a low level but Rangers are still a big club. They promoted twice and he was a part of that. The pressure, the expectations of Rangers promoting, the crowds at Ibrox of 30 and 40 thousand he played in front of at every home fixture; all of that is valuable and meaningful and meaningful games take players out of the "development" phase. Adekugbe doesn't have that experience YET.

The only problem with all that, Obinna, is that Canada does not need a fullback to get up the pitch and do all that, or hardly ever. Unless  you are saying he is the one to pull a Richard Hastings for us, god bless him.

And MLS does not do a lot more with attacking outside backs either. I mean, the league is a defensive mess scoring ridiculous amounts of goals and we need guys to cut in and out and take on defenders and run commas through the opposing defense and all sorts of other unheard of punctuation marks, when they are backline players?

Just look where he went when Piatti turned inside on that first goal? When you are supposed to hold, at least, not even put a foot in, just hold. He ended up running 5 metres in the opposite direction almost straight into the Southsiders. Do you seriously want to tell us he was taught that at Ibrox, my lord, if I were a Rangers fan I'd be cringing.

 

 

[Grizzly]

6 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Just look where he went when Piatti turned inside on that first goal? When you are supposed to hold, at least, not even put a foot in, just hold. He ended up running 5 metres in the opposite direction almost straight into the Southsiders. Do you seriously want to tell us he was taught that at Ibrox, my lord, if I were a Rangers fan I'd be cringing.

 

 

The disturbing thing with him running 5 metres in the opposite direction is he then turned around and watched the play instead of immediately trying to get back into the play during which time Piatti had to get around Waston and Aird possibly could have got involved in the play again (and even if not he had to try). Still to be fair he is a young player, playing on a new team in a new league and in a new position against one of the top offensive players in the league. What could go wrong? The main thing to see is how much and how quickly he adapts and corrects mistakes like that. He has a pretty attractive skillset but it remains to be seen how his football intelligence develops both in general and whether it develops in a way suitable for a defender. He is playing at RB not because it is necessarily his best position but because the Caps have a need there which conveniently is the exact same position the national team has a need for.

I suspect he may get called for the Mexico games but mostly because of our lack of right backs and the possibility Ouimette may not have any playing time (though it is possible he might get some time against Montreal given that it is his ex-club). I don't see Aird starting over Ledgerwood at this point because for all of his many flaws, Ledgerwood is really solid defensively and is pretty good at making even players who are much better than him work hard to get by him which is what we will need against Mexico. Ledgerwood should be in pretty good shape even though FCE hasn't started their season because he will be playing preseason friendlies and as a key player in the squad should get a lot of time (more than he was often getting a Cottbus when he was playing for us). If Aird is a fast learner and does well in MLS he could possibly replace Ledgerwood by the time the next WCQ window comes around. His skill set is more impressive than Ledgerwood's but the world is also full of guys with good skillsets but who lack soccer intelligence and/or are not suited to be defenders. So it remains to be seen how Aird will develop but hopefully Vancouver sees enough upside in him to keep giving him playing time. 

[Obinna]

On 3/10/2016 at 6:54 PM, Unnamed Trialist said:

The only problem with all that, Obinna, is that Canada does not need a fullback to get up the pitch and do all that, or hardly ever. Unless  you are saying he is the one to pull a Richard Hastings for us, god bless him.

And MLS does not do a lot more with attacking outside backs either. I mean, the league is a defensive mess scoring ridiculous amounts of goals and we need guys to cut in and out and take on defenders and run commas through the opposing defense and all sorts of other unheard of punctuation marks, when they are backline players?

Just look where he went when Piatti turned inside on that first goal? When you are supposed to hold, at least, not even put a foot in, just hold. He ended up running 5 metres in the opposite direction almost straight into the Southsiders. Do you seriously want to tell us he was taught that at Ibrox, my lord, if I were a Rangers fan I'd be cringing.

 

 

I understand what you are saying about holding an attacker. However, I can say from experience that sometimes you lose your discipline and dive-in anyways. Nobody is perfect, especially a 20 year old attacker who is being converted into a right back and defending Piatti, who is truly a quality attacker.

Are you suggesting that a professional player like Aird doesn't understand these concepts of "hold" and "tuck in behind"? Even high level amateur players know those basics; however, it doesn't mean you are always switched on "100%" of the time (although that is the goal)...

Like Grizz said, what's more important than this (dreadful) mistake is how he responds. As I mentioned, he still sounds confident from the interview; i'm looking forward to seeing how he rebounds.

I also couldn't help but notice you have nothing to say regarding Adekugbe's lack of experience in comparison to Aird. Can I assume you are in agreement then?

Also, I don't necessarily believe that Canada needs a fullback to get up the pitch either, but i'd rather have a player who can do that when needed (Aird), than a player that doesn't have those tools in his locker (Ledgerwood). That is not to say I think Aird will start over Ledgerwood (he won't) for these fixtures, but moving forward, if Aird can show he can be disciplined defensively, that would be a huge plus for our national team. I'll also say it yet again, i'm not ready to say he is clueless on the defensive end just yet..

Don't get me wrong, I like Ledgerwood and appreciate all that he has done for us and the RB spot is his to lose, but I think Aird has what it takes to win the spot in the not too distant future. As for Mexico, I hope he can keep their quick attackers under wraps. As I have said before, his lack of athleticism is a concern for me. He has never been very athletic; I remember watching him play for Alberta when we hosted the Nationals back in U-17 and even back then he wasn't very quick (he was a very smart central midfielder, however).  

 

 

Edited March 11, 2016 by Obinna

[Unnamed Trialist]

Just want to say, Obinna, that I barely even know how Ledgerwood plays, which may be a good thing. And I agree that there is no use slagging Aird so much. But I do think you are underestimating Sam, he was on a very upward curve before getting injured and we were judging him very harshly at Whitecaps as well, eagerly but hard, as all Cap fans here know. And he began to look very promising as he too adjusted as he needed to, defensively, offensively and in team play. 

At Whitecaps the other player Robinson used as an outside back was Dean, and they've announced he will be out quite a while, 3-4 months, with his new foot injury, so the spot is Aird's to make his own. All power to him.

[Obinna]

2 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Just want to say, Obinna, that I barely even know how Ledgerwood plays, which may be a good thing. And I agree that there is no use slagging Aird so much. But I do think you are underestimating Sam, he was on a very upward curve before getting injured and we were judging him very harshly at Whitecaps as well, eagerly but hard, as all Cap fans here know. And he began to look very promising as he too adjusted as he needed to, defensively, offensively and in team play. 

At Whitecaps the other player Robinson used as an outside back was Dean, and they've announced he will be out quite a while, 3-4 months, with his new foot injury, so the spot is Aird's to make his own. All power to him.

Adekugbe is one player that I am excited for; especially considering he's from Calgary (where I currently live). He's a former Foothills player and I have played against that club in CUSA and officiated CMSA Foothills games - so i'm always rooting for him, given that connection. 

I want to also mention that Sam has shown a lot of promise since he burst on the scene with the Whitecaps. Every week I am hopeful he displaces Harvey (who is actually underestimated by many).

All that being said, I honestly believe Fraser Aird is a more talented footballer.

This is not because he has "Rangers" attached to his name, it is actually from tuning in to the Whitecaps pre-season games. I know it appears that I am taking away from Adekugbe's accomplishments here; Sam has truly done well to break into a very good Vancouver team.

For as well as he has done though, I still see a player who is (better but..) similar to Morgan in his game. That doesn't mean he won't be a mainstay in MLS or beyond (including for Canada), I just see limitations in what he can do going forward. Limitations that Aird doesn't have.

Proper defending, in my opinion, is largely about mental discipline. That is easier to develop then talent with a football. 

[Complete Homer]

Out of the starting XI tonight, but still on the bench. VWC defence looks weak overall, might get another chance

[Vince193]

18 minutes ago, Complete Homer said:

Out of the starting XI tonight, but still on the bench. VWC defence looks weak overall, might get another chance

Smith isn't much better. When Vancouver got him CR fans said he wasn't very good and wasn't going to offer Vancouver much.

[El Hombre]

Not to harp on the media (again) but I find the commentary interesting.  Last week, it was mentioned again and again how Aird did not do nearly well enough when Piatti turned him.  This week I just heard about how young Deybi Flores is and how you have to be patient with him and all the potential he has.

Fraser Aird: born February 2, 1995

Deybi Flores: born June 16, 1996

[Complete Homer]

12 minutes ago, Vince193 said:

Smith isn't much better. When Vancouver got him CR fans said he wasn't very good and wasn't going to offer Vancouver much.

He just got red carded and VWC are down by 2. Aird might be getting lucky

[shermanator]

Well, Aird will be in next week now for sure. 

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, shermanator said:

Well, Aird will be in next week now for sure. 

I'm surprised he has not been subbed on.

[Complete Homer]

36 minutes ago, canta15 said:

I'm surprised he has not been subbed on.

He has been now

 

Edit: Aird, Froese, and Perez in for Laba, Flores, and Techera.  Might be a chance to solidify the Canadians as starters, they've pulled to within one since the sub 

Edited March 13, 2016 by Complete Homer

[davey_twelve]

Flores had a really weak game, Laba's partner will likely be changing back and forth for the next while.

[Complete Homer]

2 minutes ago, davey_twelve said:

Flores had a really weak game, Laba's partner will likely be changing back and forth for the next while.

The team looked a lot stronger after Perez, Froese, and Aird came on. Hard to gauge how much of that was the effect of SKC taking the foot off the pedal, but I think they helped themselves make a case to start next game 

[Northvansteve]

Aird played the full 45 minutes of the second half. In watching him now for a second game, I think his weaknesses are mostly a matter of experience. He has all the tools to be an effective right back: he's quick, great attacking instincts, great crossing, very good touches on the ball but unsure of positioning in and easily beaten wide with simple moves. This latter weakness can be fixed with training and experience. I think if the Whitecaps have some patience they will have themselves a solid RB with above-average attacking skills.

[TRM]

2 hours ago, El Hombre said:

Not to harp on the media (again) but I find the commentary interesting.  Last week, it was mentioned again and again how Aird did not do nearly well enough when Piatti turned him.  This week I just heard about how young Deybi Flores is and how you have to be patient with him and all the potential he has.

Fraser Aird: born February 2, 1995

Deybi Flores: born June 16, 1996

Yea it doesn't matter what age you are in the pro sports game. You either help the coach keep his job or you don't. The old line "if you're good enough you're old enough" is very true. I thought Aird did better defending and is clearly a better player than Smith.

[shamrock]

8 hours ago, Vince193 said:

Smith isn't much better. When Vancouver got him CR fans said he wasn't very good and wasn't going to offer Vancouver much.

No he's not. If that's the competition Aird will have more than enough minutes to come. What an horrible tackle. I mean, not even worthy of a red card but just such a bad decision. He could have done 8 things that would have been better in that situation...

[davey_twelve]

After seeing him in two games I think it's more of Piatti being really good right now than Aird being bad.

[Complete Homer]

2 hours ago, davey_twelve said:

After seeing him in two games I think it's more of Piatti being really good right now than Aird being bad.

Well, he made some pretty poor tackle attempts in the first game, I don't think it can be chalked up to Piatti alone. Hopefully just inexperience and nerves 

[lazlo_80]

they gotta give Aird another shot but he is definitely a work in progress. He was okay in the 2nd half of the KC game. I think the kid just needs reps before you'll ever know if he's the guy or not.

[TRM]

Nice write up about him so far

http://www.whitecapsfc.com/post/2016/04/07/numbers-fraser-aird

16 tackles (most on Caps), 8 successful crosses (leads MLS), 5 chances created (2cd on Caps). Nice start

[Vancouver Fan]

39 minutes ago, TRM said:

Nice write up about him so far

http://www.whitecapsfc.com/post/2016/04/07/numbers-fraser-aird

16 tackles (most on Caps), 8 successful crosses (leads MLS), 5 chances created (2cd on Caps). Nice start

Not surprised that he is leading the league in crosses. A striker couldn't ask for better. A decent one would finish many. Really nice right foot.