Do you support the stance taken by Sportsnet's Sid Sixeiro re: Junior Hoilett

[Joe MacCarthy]

600 views is not the same as viewed by 600 people

Yes I realize that

[rob.notenboom]

Also, there appear to be lots of internet robots that not only view these pages but manage to establish accounts/memberships ... currently it says that 87 'members' have viewed this thread but if anyone knows who these members are: awainuelini, ktsietuh, oreweefeCox ... I'd be surprised. There are currently about 10 or so of these mystery accounts listed below and it seems that not long after a new thread is established the 'who has viewed this thread' goes from names that everyone would recognize to these cryptic and somewhat random user names. By that measure if fewer than 80 real members have viewed this thread and 40 have voted that's a 50% return. Probably a higher percentage than voted in the last Toronto civic election (admittedly a dirty shot).

[jrue17]

I think the rant was exactly what was called for. For many years i was what you would call a "closet soccer fan". I would here of scenarios similar to this but that would be the end of it. We would bite our tongues and just except it. The fact that a well know member of the media went on what was probably one of the more entertaining rants ive ever heard shows the tide is a changin. Great for the game in Canada IMO. Rant on Sid.

[parkingatlamport]

Perhaps, the lone against was accidental but this poll is less forgiving than the church of England.

It wasn't accidental because it was me. To me, I thought this was more a debate about whether TFC was wrong. However, it's morphing into a Nationality debate that spans 20 years and I'm not looking to get involved in that beaten to death topic.

I can tell you a million things TFC has done wrong, but I don't believe this is one of them. They have an arrangement that has nothing to do with Junior's National status and everything to do with improving club relationships, which in turn creates possible loan deals and transfers. If MLSE want to cover the bill for expenses while he's here, that's their business because they are a business, with private owners.

Everyone here cries how clubs should stay out of National team business, yet they want to turn around in the ultimate hypocrisy and tell clubs what they can and can't do based on the same concept. I'm personally not into either side meddling into each others business this deeply.

That's my opinion on the whole Junior/TFC partnership.

[Joe MacCarthy]

that's their business because they are a business, with private owners.

And any business is accountable to its stakeholders one of which is the fans. And seeing that the building they play in is owned by the public (city of Toronto) and its construction was funded by monies other than MLSE, I'd say the people have a right to voice their opinion and be heard

[alberta white]

Also, there appear to be lots of internet robots that not only view these pages but manage to establish accounts/memberships ... currently it says that 87 'members' have viewed this thread but if anyone knows who these members are: awainuelini, ktsietuh, oreweefeCox ... I'd be surprised. There are currently about 10 or so of these mystery accounts listed below and it seems that not long after a new thread is established the 'who has viewed this thread' goes from names that everyone would recognize to these cryptic and somewhat random user names. By that measure if fewer than 80 real members have viewed this thread and 40 have voted that's a 50% return. Probably a higher percentage than voted in the last Toronto civic election (admittedly a dirty shot).

oreweefeCox, GOOD MATE OF MINE. RUNS A PUB DOWN THE MILE END ROAD...

[alberta white]

it wasn't accidental because it was me. To me, i thought this was more a debate about whether tfc was wrong. However, it's morphing into a nationality debate that spans 20 years and i'm not looking to get involved in that beaten to death topic..

.

ah-ha but you chose death...no swapsies, no swapies!

Besides i ain't seeing post from the archbishop of cantebury on here, are you?

[RS]

And any business is accountable to its stakeholders one of which is the fans. And seeing that the building they play in is owned by the public (city of Toronto) and its construction was funded by monies other than MLSE, I'd say the people have a right to voice their opinion and be heard

To be clear, Hoilett trained at the TFC Training Ground, not at BMO Field. The training facility was funded completely by MLSE (although it sits on Government of Canada land).

[Califax]

Also, I just heard him today, and he said he had no problem with making the choice of another country but rather with the optics of someone training with TFC under the indecisive circumstances. Kind of a let down, but the rant will get played more than today.

McCallif was no help.

[alberta white]

Also, I just heard him today, and he said he had no problem with making the choice of another country but rather with the optics of someone training with TFC under the indecisive circumstances. Kind of a let down, but the rant will get played more than today.

McCallif was no help.

"with the optics of someone training with TFC under the indecisive circumstances"

WHAT THE HELL DOES THAT MEAN, ARE THEY ALL DRUNK?

[parkingatlamport]

And any business is accountable to its stakeholders one of which is the fans. And seeing that the building they play in is owned by the public (city of Toronto) and its construction was funded by monies other than MLSE, I'd say the people have a right to voice their opinion and be heard

The public paid for a venue which had community services, national supporting events, and a franchise that brought dollars back into the economy. They even take a cut in TFC profits involving the building. The tax payer didn't get a stake in TFC, they aren't maintaining the facilities, haven't paid for upgrades, and have earned their money back ten fold. The deal has worked out for both sides and they both got exactly what they were looking for.

The tax payers paid for BMO and were reimbursed accordingly. If the tax payer wanted a percentage of MLSE, it should have been negotiated. It's not suddenly your right to think because you paid for BMO that now you have a say in MLSE business practices. A construction company doesn't sit on the board room of a company they once built a building for. They are paid and they move on. The city was paid in tourism, taxes, jobs, revenue, etc. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Everyone has their right to opinion, but the meddling of Toronto FC's business concerning a players nationality over a partnership that has nothing to do with the other is a bit much. Should TFC request the blackballing of players that done them wrong? Maybe Deguzman should be benched by the CSA because TFC didn't get their money back on their investment. Maybe Dero should have been sent home from an International for the check signing incident. If TFC wants to fund Junior's training and it doesn't cost the CSA anything, I don't feel like getting involved. Better to keep these things separate from each other.

[squizz1402635577]

Oh man, if you like this rant, you'll love Sid's all-time classic rant from a few years ago about supporting the CanMNT:

This is from the old Score podcast where he could swear (but the swears are bleeped out in this version).

[Califax]

"with the optics of someone training with TFC under the indecisive circumstances"

WHAT THE HELL DOES THAT MEAN, ARE THEY ALL DRUNK?

http://pmd.fan590.com/podcasts/tim-sid/ts_20130605_160602--Tim-and-Sid---June-5---3pm.mp3

at around the 28 minute mark.

[ag futbol]

I back that 100%.

He can play wherever he wants, but no rolling out the welcome matt for guys who are going to fence sit or choose other places to play.

He can train somewhere else until he grows enough balls to make a decision.

[madmonte]

The public paid for a venue which had community services, national supporting events, and a franchise that brought dollars back into the economy. They even take a cut in TFC profits involving the building. The tax payer didn't get a stake in TFC, they aren't maintaining the facilities, haven't paid for upgrades, and have earned their money back ten fold. The deal has worked out for both sides and they both got exactly what they were looking for.

The tax payers paid for BMO and were reimbursed accordingly. If the tax payer wanted a percentage of MLSE, it should have been negotiated. It's not suddenly your right to think because you paid for BMO that now you have a say in MLSE business practices. A construction company doesn't sit on the board room of a company they once built a building for. They are paid and they move on. The city was paid in tourism, taxes, jobs, revenue, etc. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Everyone has their right to opinion, but the meddling of Toronto FC's business concerning a players nationality over a partnership that has nothing to do with the other is a bit much. Should TFC request the blackballing of players that done them wrong? Maybe Deguzman should be benched by the CSA because TFC didn't get their money back on their investment. Maybe Dero should have been sent home from an International for the check signing incident. If TFC wants to fund Junior's training and it doesn't cost the CSA anything, I don't feel like getting involved. Better to keep these things separate from each other.

That said, it IS MLSE's responsibility to have a solid business sense. And if they didn't know that fans would react negatively to Hoilett training at TFC, they are dumb, blind AND stupid.

As a BUSINESS, if they were intelligent, they would have figured out this would piss loyal fans off. Sure, we don't have a say in how to run their business, but the fact that the ticket sales are lower and lower? That IS the fans say in how they run the business.

So do fans have a say? Damn right they do. And unfortunately MLSE and TFC seem to have to keep trying to prove it. Ridiculous.

[Scottie]

I think it's because I'm not in Canada, but I can't view videos on the sportsnet site. Is there a youtube link for this? And if not, can someone post some quotes from the rant? I'd like to hear them.

[madmonte]

Sportnet doesn't drop the issue. Prior to Bosnia-Herzegovina game: Talking about Asmir Begovic. "Will Canadians be cheering for him? We'll see!" Really? They go on to talk about him repping our junior squad, before going to Bosnia.

Then they talk about Judas de Guzman briefly and him going to the Netherlands.

Then they talk about Junior. "23 year old David Hoilett could be the next Canadian star to get away. The Queen's Park Rangers forward is also eligible to play for Jamaica but is yet to make an official decision on his international future, and we talked about that a lot in the last round of qualifying. "

"Toronto's Steven Vitoria spent this last season in Portugal, with Estoril, where he scored 11 times, impressive when you consider he's a center back...he's currently out of contract, and Benfica is rumored to be his next destination, and a call up to the Portuguese national team might not be far behind for the 26 year old"

What the hell sportsnet.

Then a poll

Which of these "Canadians" do you wish played for the Canadian Men's National Team?

Jonathan de Guzman

David Hoilett

Steven Vitoria

Asmir Begovic

None

Log on to sportsnet.ca to get really pissed off! Thanks guys!

EDIT: Here's the link!

http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/poll-help-for-canadian-mens-team/

[alberta white]

Well at least the Hoillet for England thing seems done and dusted. <SNIGGER>

[alberta white]

http://pmd.fan590.com/podcasts/tim-sid/ts_20130605_160602--Tim-and-Sid---June-5---3pm.mp3

at around the 28 minute mark.

Nice... I do love they way that Hoiletts dad says he was qualified for England but no-one bothered to check this with the FA.

NEVER QUALIFIED!!

anyway....

Optic:

An instrument to determine a measure of Spirit Alcohol such as Vodka Gin, Whiskey...or RUM.

[madmonte]

Nice... I do love they way that Hoiletts dad says he was qualified for England but no-one bothered to check this with the FA.

NEVER QUALIFIED!!

anyway....

Optic:

An instrument to determine a measure of Spirit Alcohol such as Vodka Gin, Whiskey...or RUM.

I listened. The majority of this board (see poll evidence) are with Sid fullheartedly, not Tim.

[Grizzly]

Then a poll

Which of these "Canadians" do you wish played for the Canadian Men's National Team?

Jonathan de Guzman

David Hoilett

Steven Vitoria

Asmir Begovic

None

Log on to sportsnet.ca to get really pissed off! Thanks guys!

EDIT: Here's the link!

http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/poll-help-for-canadian-mens-team/

I voted None and would suggest others do the same. None of these players deserved to wear the Canada shirt nor do they deserve to live here and have citizenship even if legally there is probably no way to deny them that.

[madmonte]

I voted None and would suggest others do the same. None of these players deserved to wear the Canada shirt nor do they deserve to live here and have citizenship even if legally there is probably no way to deny them that.

Yeah, that's what I did too, Grizz

[Grizzly]

Here is an article with Teal Bunbury's opinion on the Sydney Leroux issue.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/sporting-kansas-city-forward-teal-155127195--mls.html;_ylt=Ar_Ey5h1CAB.CkZAT6ea0Jz0Ycp_;_ylu=X3oDMTRxNzJhMDQ4BGNjb2RlA3ZzaGFyZWFnMnVwcmVzdARtaXQDTWl4ZWQgTGlzdCBOZXdzIEZvciBZb3UEcGtnAzU0NzQzYjc1LTIyYjctMzI1OC1hMDM4LTk0ZmZiMjM0NzNlMgRwb3MDNQRzZWMDbmV3c19mb3JfeW91BHZlcgMwNjI2NmU5Mi1jZmFkLTExZTItOWYzYy0yMjI1YjlhNWZlM2Q-;_ylg=X3oDMTBhYWM1a2sxBGxhbmcDZW4tVVM-;_ylv=3

I don't have any sympathy for him nor do I agree with his opinion but I post it for interests sake. Unlike with Leroux, I wouldn't have any problem with Bunbury choosing the US if he hadn't already played U17 and U20 for Canada. However, it is the idea of players nation shopping for the best financial situation and using the resources of other nations that they will not play for that is really bothersome.

I think the idea of FIFA allowing players to switch was to avoid players who were legitimately dual citizens from playing one or two youth games for one country and then not getting called again at the senior level but nevertheless being unable to play for their other country because they were cap tied. However, the modified rules have just allowed nation shopping and discredited the international game. I think a good reform would be to only allow a player to switch if the country they played for in their youth was willing to allow them to switch. To avoid countries screwing around players there could be a period within which any country that denied a player the right of switching would have to play him in a national team match or lose any say over the matter.

The big problem with changing the rules now is that the big powerful attractive footballing countries have seen how much the current rules benefit them. They recruit the top players of lesser footballing nations while those lesser nations get some mediocre players from the top nations that the top nations would not want anyway.

Still I think in addition to improving our player development we have to make our best effort to recruit as many foreign players playing for our MLS teams as possible if they take citizenship. I am against this in principle but those are the rules as they currently exist and we need to play by those rules that other nations are exploiting if we want to have any chance of success. And I completely disagree with JM that there is any hypocrisy in doing this. You can disagree with the current rules but nevertheless follow and take advantage of them while still expressing your disagreement with them.

[Addona]

Here is an article with Teal Bunbury's opinion on the Sydney Leroux issue.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/sporting-kansas-city-forward-teal-155127195--mls.html;_ylt=Ar_Ey5h1CAB.CkZAT6ea0Jz0Ycp_;_ylu=X3oDMTRxNzJhMDQ4BGNjb2RlA3ZzaGFyZWFnMnVwcmVzdARtaXQDTWl4ZWQgTGlzdCBOZXdzIEZvciBZb3UEcGtnAzU0NzQzYjc1LTIyYjctMzI1OC1hMDM4LTk0ZmZiMjM0NzNlMgRwb3MDNQRzZWMDbmV3c19mb3JfeW91BHZlcgMwNjI2NmU5Mi1jZmFkLTExZTItOWYzYy0yMjI1YjlhNWZlM2Q-;_ylg=X3oDMTBhYWM1a2sxBGxhbmcDZW4tVVM-;_ylv=3

I don't have any sympathy for him nor do I agree with his opinion but I post it for interests sake. Unlike with Leroux, I wouldn't have any problem with Bunbury choosing the US if he hadn't already played U17 and U20 for US. However, it is the idea of players nation shopping for the best financial situation and using the resources of other nations that they will not play for that is really bothersome.

I think the idea of FIFA allowing players to switch was to avoid players who were legitimately dual citizens from playing one or two youth games for one country and then not getting called again at the senior level but nevertheless being unable to play for their other country because they were cap tied. However, the modified rules have just allowed nation shopping and discredited the international game. I think a good reform would be to only allow a player to switch if the country they played for in their youth was willing to allow them to switch. To avoid countries screwing around players there could be a period within which any country that denied a player the right of switching would have to play him in a national team match or lose any say over the matter.

The big problem with changing the rules now is that the big powerful attractive footballing countries have seen how much the current rules benefit them. They recruit the top players of lesser footballing nations while those lesser nations get some mediocre players from the top nations that the top nations would not want anyway.

Still I think in addition to improving our player development we have to make our best effort to recruit as many foreign players playing for our MLS teams as possible if they take citizenship. I am against this in principle but those are the rules as they currently exist and we need to play by those rules that other nations are exploiting if we want to have any chance of success. And I completely disagree with JM that there is any hypocrisy in doing this. You can disagree with the current rules but nevertheless follow and take advantage of them while still expressing your disagreement with them.

This.

MLS.com also had this article up yesterday ... Teal really needs to shut up and focus on his rehab.

[Obinna]

I voted None and would suggest others do the same. None of these players deserved to wear the Canada shirt nor do they deserve to live here and have citizenship even if legally there is probably no way to deny them that.

+1