New D3 pro league

[ThiKu]

Well ya, why would you assume I am thinking a bunch of 15 year olds will be First XI players throughout the league?

Why would BCSA be responsible for picking the teams? It would be a private league with it's own governing board and president - BCSA would simply have to approve it running in their province. Think of it this way - BCSA would be to semi-pro BC what The English FA is to EPL. EFA approves etc, consults, but EPL does what it does. (this is my hope for our league anyway! Neither CSA or any of the provincial governing bodies should be running the league).

[ted]

My mistake. I was under the impression that teams had to be accepted by the BCSA and players registered with BCSA to play in any league sanctioned by BCSA.

[ThiKu]

^I have been wrong before (!!!) but my impression is CSA and a provincial body only need approve a team/league, not be involved with running/selecting them. (ie, Vancouver Whitecaps and MLS).

Anyway, an 8-team Canadian semi-pro league a 6 Canada, 2 American semi pro league in BC would be ideal. It'd have to cover territory. Okanagan, Fraser Valley, Surrey (2??), Greater Vancouver (2??), Vancouver, and Victoria - in my opinion. If all 8 teams have good depth and players are regularly making national teams (I envision the u23 nationwide circuit having a "all-star" team of young Canadians as a sort of domestic national team program) then you can expand to 9 or 10 if ownership can prove they are stable. But if 2 of the 8 were American I would suggest those two American teams have to recognize the league being Canadian and with the purpose of developing Canadian players.

[canadianfoot]

Explain to me, Canadianfoot, how you justify giving a team to Nanaimo and a 2nd Okanagan team ahead of, for example a 2nd Surrey team, or a team in Coquitlam/Burnaby, or even a 2nd Vancouver team. Please.

Nanaimo couldn't even produce competitive Metro youth teams, but you think they could produce a senior semi-pro team?

Sorry was busy uploading Vcup videos

The way I see it the league would launch 2015 or 2016 earliest. Having a semi-pro team if different from a youth team since you will have some players that will be compensated, thus bring a higher level of play(hopefully). The reason I mentioned 2teams on the Island and Okanagan area people need to have a rivalry, bring costs down and revenue up. Also isn't Nanaimo loosely associated with the Whitecaps? That gives you a base of recruits and people who hopefully know what they are doing.

In a SemiPro setup I could see 100fans making the trip from Nanaimo to Victoria or say Kelowna-Kamloops. It not only drives ticket sale up but concession, potential merchendise and Sponsors too. While for the lowemainland my worry is to "oversaturate" the market. Think BMO people associate them with Soccer and they are everywhere to the limit I say. Also by having the teams spread out you distribute the talent pool more evenly. Sure lowermainland has a higher population so you have more recruits. But at this point and time I would suggest to have less teams in the lowermainland and once the league is established for say 4-5years then expand if the market suggest the need for it.

[ThiKu]

@canadianfoot - I just happen to disagree with ya.

But in the end, the leagues will need owners with deep pockets, and connections to sponsorship for stability purposes. The league can't be like the PCSL and have teams coming-going every year. We need the same 8 teams year in, year out, and add teams as we can. So wherever the strong owners are, that's where I want teams. Even if that means there isn't a team in my area to support.

[canadianfoot]

@canadianfoot - I just happen to disagree with ya.

But in the end, the leagues will need owners with deep pockets, and connections to sponsorship for stability purposes. The league can't be like the PCSL and have teams coming-going every year. We need the same 8 teams year in, year out, and add teams as we can. So wherever the strong owners are, that's where I want teams. Even if that means there isn't a team in my area to support.

Well said owners with $$$

[ThiKu]

Could even see a supporters-owned team in this type of league.

[ted]

In an article by Richard Whittall on his Blog about the QSF and Turbans he made an odd comment:

Ontario and BC have already established a move to provincial leagues in lines with the principles of the long-term player development pathway.

Anyone have any idea WTF he is talking about? Has there been some announcement or published news items about a BC league being organized? I know we have speculated and it makes sense but I have seen nothing more concrete up to now.

[Greatest Cockney Rip Off]

In an article by Richard Whittall on his Blog about the QSF and Turbans he made an odd comment:

Anyone have any idea WTF he is talking about? Has there been some announcement or published news items about a BC league being organized? I know we have speculated and it makes sense but I have seen nothing more concrete up to now.

Is he talking about the high performance leagues that are stating at u13 and adding higher age group each year.

edit:

here is a link to a story about the ontario one. I am sure BC is the same or similar.

http://www.wakingthered.com/2012/9/17/3332898/ontario-player-development-league-ltpd

[Levi Oakey]

I think he is actually referring to this: http://www.canadiansoccernews.com/content.php?4584-CSA-aiming-for-2015-launch-of-national-semi-pro-league

[Blackdude]

I think he is actually referring to this: http://www.canadiansoccernews.com/content.php?4584-CSA-aiming-for-2015-launch-of-national-semi-pro-league

No it's something else, because Quebec has its semi-pro league right now. I think he's really talking about something that looks like OPDL.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Looks like he is hinting that the QSF are not keen on implementing the recommendations of the Easton report where the PLSQ is concerned. The CSA have managed to kill off the CSL (albeit with a stay of execution until Feb 2014) and have the OSA very much on board with L1O, and Victor Montagliani is from BC so probably still has considerable influence there even if nothing is solidly in the public domain there yet, so Quebec is the obvious potential stumbling block to having something that can be labelled "national" where D3 is concerned.

[ted]

So, in summary, Whittall is talking out of his @$$ - OK, fine, or he has privileged, insider information - and there has been no public statements or media reports on the formation of a BC D3.

I assume someone is talking about it behind closed doors and hope they will start talking more publicly soon because a 2014 start would require some sort of public announcement soon.

[ted]

Well, here we are a month later and no word from BC...

But down south of us, in Washington State, they are getting something new that may have an impact on the continuation of the PDL in the Pacific Northwest:

The dream has a name: Evergreen Premier League

The Evergreen Premier League. That’s the name to rally around if you would like to see a statewide men’s adult outdoor semi-pro soccer league in Washington.

more...

Washington teams, including the Sounders U23 team, make up the bulk of the Northwest Division of the PDL. This proposed league would be semi-pro and looks like no age restrictions. This could be a serious threat to the PDL in the area which could, IMO, result in Victoria and Vancouver looking for other options sooner rather than later.

[ted]

And now we have another decent soccer blogger who appears to be totally confused: Canadian clubs turning heads with PDL success

Dave Rowaan is clearly under the impression that a national D3 is in the works:

That was what the Easton Report recommended to the CSA and was adopted by the governing body. When it is eventually implemented it would become the third division of soccer in Canada behind MLS and NASL.

and

The CSA will need to entice these groups to join any new Canadian League since when you combine them with the existing professional clubs you would have a solid foundation already in place around the country for a national division three league.

In the meantime the CSA needs to continue to extend the olive branch to these clubs...

If someone who actually understands the soccer situation in Canada (he has an otherwise insightful take on the whole situation in this article) is so hopelessly confused, what does that say about the CSA and it's communications?

[Macksam]

And now we have another decent soccer blogger who appears to be totally confused: Canadian clubs turning heads with PDL success

Dave Rowaan is clearly under the impression that a national D3 is in the works:

and

If someone who actually understands the soccer situation in Canada (he has an otherwise insightful take on the whole situation in this article) is so hopelessly confused, what does that say about the CSA and it's communications?

What is he confused about?

[Redcoatsforever]

And now we have another decent soccer blogger who appears to be totally confused: Canadian clubs turning heads with PDL success

Dave Rowaan is clearly under the impression that a national D3 is in the works:

and

If someone who actually understands the soccer situation in Canada (he has an otherwise insightful take on the whole situation in this article) is so hopelessly confused, what does that say about the CSA and it's communications?

So...the series of provincial leagues wouldn't constitute the Canadian third division?

How would they not?

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

If someone who actually understands the soccer situation in Canada (he has an otherwise insightful take on the whole situation in this article) is so hopelessly confused, what does that say about the CSA and it's communications?

That they are happy to mislead people into believing that something a lot more substantial is being planned than three elite provincial U-23 semi-pro leagues with an end of season weekend tournament to keep the national league dreamers quiet? Victor Montagliani used the national league (or lack thereof) issue to propel himself towards the CSA president role so he has to be seen to be doing something. Understandable enough, but hopefully the progress that appears to be being made in PDL right now won't be impeded, because it doesn't fit neatly into the Easton Report approach. The U-23 D3 thing they have in mind is likely to be at its most effective within one hour's drive of Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver, and would definitely not be the answer in Thunder Bay and Winnipeg. There is a niche for both PDL and leagues like L1O in other words.

Edit: Haven't been following this stuff too closely recently, but it looks like FC London are going to be involved with the OPDL development system, which the OSA are developing and which is likely in many/most instances to be tied into the local L1O team.

http://www.lfpress.com/2013/07/22/fc-london-hooks-up-with-toronto-fc

[ted]

What is he confused about?

He keeps saying that the CSA is creating a new national D3.

There is no national D3. There are two provincial D3's for 2014. There may be more in the future. They may someday possibly be allowed to play in the VCup or a cup tournament of some sort just between themselves.

By no objective definition is that a national league nor by any reasonable measure is the CSA currently involved in the process.

Look, I WANT the "new" CSA to be heavily involved in a national D3. Literally all they would have to do to get started is announce that starting in 2014 the provincial D3 leagues will be eligible to compete in the VCup in some form. We can work from there.

But as of right now, today, the CSA has washed their hands of any involvement with D3 and that is shameful.

[Blackdude]

Do you consider the CHL to be a national league?

[Macksam]

He keeps saying that the CSA is creating a new national D3.

There is no national D3. There are two provincial D3's for 2014. There may be more in the future. They may someday possibly be allowed to play in the VCup or a cup tournament of some sort just between themselves.

By no objective definition is that a national league nor by any reasonable measure is the CSA currently involved in the process.

Look, I WANT the "new" CSA to be heavily involved in a national D3. Literally all they would have to do to get started is announce that starting in 2014 the provincial D3 leagues will be eligible to compete in the VCup in some form. We can work from there.

But as of right now, today, the CSA has washed their hands of any involvement with D3 and that is shameful.

You're worrying about the wrong things.

[ted]

Do you consider the CHL to be a national league?

That's hockey right? How is it structured?

If we had provincial D3 leagues that covered the country coast to coast, was under some unifying structure and included a national final tournament like the PDL is running this weekend then yes, we would have something I would consider a national league.

Two leagues in Ontario and Quebec that do not have an competitive and organizational connection is not a national league.

You're worrying about the wrong things.

What should I be worrying about in regards D3?

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Something to bear in mind maybe is that USL Pro is soon going to effectively be the AAA league for MLS:

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/mls-wants-clubs-either-fielding-152333710--mls.html

Hopefully the CSA won't place obstacles in the way of three more Canadian cities winding up with fully pro teams in that context, given it is likely to be more relevant to the development of Canadian pro players than the recommendations of the Easton report, since the main pathway for the high flyers at youth soccer level is likely to be MLS Academy System ---> USL Pro contract ---> MLS contract.

[ted]

Something to bear in mind maybe is that USL Pro is soon going to effectively be the AAA league for MLS...

Yes this was mentioned quite some time ago and never properly addressed by the believers in the fantasy Canadian league.

If we are to turn the provincial leagues into something we can call a national league then the CSA has to step forward and address the USL Pro issue and get the Cdn MLS teams onboard.

In other words the CSA needs to reverse it's ridiculous and cowardly position and take a direct hand in the development of a national D3.

EDIT: Dave Rowaan just indicated to me he will be in Ottawa soon and bring this up with CSA officials he will be interviewing. Now THAT is what makes a (soccer) journalist: actually pursuing the answers!

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

If the USSF's D1 and D2 are OK for Canadian teams to enter, I see no reason why the USSF's D3 and D4 levels shouldn't be used as well to make soccer viable as a high profile spectator sport in a wide range of different Canadian cities, without any moratoriums being issued from Ottawa to maintain the fiction that some mythical national pro league is just around the corner. If, as now appears to be the case, semi-pro soccer is being handed over to the provincial associations so that U-23 leagues can be set up in and around Vancouver, Toronto and Montreal, it's a completely separate issue from leagues like MLS, the NASL, USL Pro and PDL that span geographical areas that are significantly larger in scope than a single Canadian province. Confusion could be eliminated by dispensing with the D3 terminology that misleadingly makes it sound like something comparable to USL Pro is envisaged when it's really the niche previously filled by CSL that is being addressed.