Jonathan Osorio

[Ansem]

9 minutes ago, Obinna said:

We don't have this relationship with any of our Concacaf rivals, so if your premise is that playing in Colombia is better for Jonathan's development, please explain to me why this seemingly dangerous environment is so much more valuable for his soccer development than playing away against Liga MX teams?

There's limited amount of games to be played in CCL and are far apart while he'd be playing AND training weekly in that environment.

[Corazon]

9 minutes ago, Obinna said:

We don't have this relationship with any of our Concacaf rivals, so if your premise is that playing in Colombia is better for Jonathan's development, please explain to me why this seemingly dangerous environment is so much more valuable for his soccer development than playing away against Liga MX teams?

Playing in Colombia and in the Copa Libertadores does bring some additional value to Osorio as a player that he can't get here in the MLS.  But it does not make sense to loan him out if we cannot use him in the CONCACAF Champions League next year.  Playing in Mexico is similar enough to South America.  If we had lost the Canadian Cup this year than I would consider the loan even if it risked Osorio missing the beginning of the regular season. 

[BrennanFan]

7 minutes ago, Obinna said:

We don't have this relationship with any of our Concacaf rivals, so if your premise is that playing in Colombia is better for Jonathan's development, please explain to me why this seemingly dangerous environment is so much more valuable for his soccer development than playing away against Liga MX teams?

Experience playing in intense, stressful, must win situations is what will help our players succeed in Concacaf WCQ. The more stressful, must win situations, the better.

A league derby in Colombia is more intense and stressful than any Concacaf champions league tfc game could play. He would gain more and better experience in must win games playing in Colombia than tfc, especially on a team playing libertadores.

 

[Obinna]

12 minutes ago, Ansem said:

There's limited amount of games to be played in CCL and are far apart while he'd be playing AND training weekly in that environment.

But why are rivalries filled with hatred and violence so essential, when these conditions do not exist between us and our concacaf opponents? 

Honduras for example provide a hostile Latin America crowd, but games against Liga MX teams is a suitable proxy. 

Games in Colombia and in Copa Libertadores also provide a suitable proxy, but just because there's greater animosity (and violence) in some of those rivalries doesn't make them more valuable preparation for Honduras than a game away to Tigres or America.

Why? Because Honduras don't have anymore animosity towards us than Tigres have towards TFC. All Honduras have is an intimidating crowd - just like Tigres or America or insert Liga MX team here.

@BrennanFanOsorio going to Colombia would be neat, but it's definitely not critical for wcq prep. I don't buy that argument for a second!

Edited November 20, 2018 by Obinna

[Corazon]

3 minutes ago, BrennanFan said:

Experience playing in intense, stressful, must win situations is what will help our players succeed in Concacaf WCQ. The more stressful, must win situations, the better.

A league derby in Colombia is more intense and stressful than any Concacaf champions league tfc game could play. He would gain more and better experience in must win games playing in Colombia than tfc, especially on a team playing libertadores.

 

I agree.  However, whether its true or not, I do not see Toronto FC pulling the trigger on this even if its beneficial for them in the long-run.  I don't think it will fly with management and majority of fans.  As from a Canadian MNT standpoint, I believe it would be beneficial.  As for Osorio, the idea of playing in Colombia the country his parents are from is probably something that would really interest him.

[Obinna]

17 minutes ago, BrennanFan said:

Experience playing in intense, stressful, must win situations is what will help our players succeed in Concacaf WCQ. The more stressful, must win situations, the better.

A league derby in Colombia is more intense and stressful than any Concacaf champions league tfc game could play. He would gain more and better experience in must win games playing in Colombia than tfc, especially on a team playing libertadores.

 

The intensity is surely far greater between the fans in such rivalries, I definitely don't deny that. 

But the personal intensity and pressure for Osorio to do well for TFC against, say Tigres, would be far greater for him than in Colombia (on loan), I imagine. 

Edited November 20, 2018 by Obinna

[BrennanFan]

6 minutes ago, Obinna said:

The intensity is surely far greater between the fans in such rivalries, I definitely don't deny that. 

But the personal intensity and pressure for Osorio to do well for TFC against, say Tigres, would be far greater for him than in Colombia (on loan), I imagine. 

Lots of foreigners play in those leagues, but the hate and intensity still translates to the pitch. There's something about pulling on a clubs shirt. It even happened here with Altidore and Giovinco against the Impact. Our history and rivalry mattered to them.  

But you do make a good point. It all comes back to what Osorio wants and what is important to him.

[Obinna]

To be clear, the Colombia experience would be fantastic for Osorio. It would give him a larger variety of big game experiences to draw on.

I just don't think it's critical for him to take this opportunity right now, and I definitely don't think Toronto would be the bad guy by refusing a loan. Again, what do they have to gain?

[Obinna]

2 hours ago, Ansem said:

Having "better internationals" doesn't mean you have the "better team". 

Many of those "Columbians domestics" would be worth "DP & Internationals" on an MLS squad. Might be a reason why Euro leagues scout heavily there.... no?

Just thought of something...

If so many of the Colombian domestics are DP quality, why is one of the biggest Colombian teams after the likes of Jonathan Osorio?

[Corazon]

29 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Just thought of something...

If so many of the Colombian domestics are DP quality, why is one of the biggest Colombian teams after the likes of Jonathan Osorio?

I would say based solely on the fact the Coach is familiar with the player and has history with him.  I haven't heard of any other South American teams inquiring about him.  The Zambrano effect.  To be honest, Zambrano may say he has the quality to play for Medellin game in and game out but thats just part of recruitment.  I'm not sure Osorio would factor that much into regular games for them, although I could be wrong.

[Obinna]

1 minute ago, Corazon said:

I would say based solely on the fact the Coach is familiar with the player and has history with him.  I haven't heard of any other South American teams inquiring about him.  The Zambrano effect.  To be honest, Zambrano may say he has the quality to play for Medellin game in and game out but thats just part of recruitment.  I'm not sure Osorio would factor that much into regular games for them, although I could be wrong.

If that were the case it would make even less sense to go on this loan.

Start from the bench in Libertadores or start on the field in CCL? Hmm....tough decision.

[KW519]

Crazy how many Colombian Primera experts we have in Canada!! Imagine what clubs Ballou and Alphonso could have signed for if they played in South America where they have a better chance of getting scouted by big clubs!! 

[Yohan]

Isn't this a moot point if Medellin isn't willing to pay Oso's 1M wages? Because I just don't see TFC willing to eat some of Oso's salary just so that Oso can have fun in Colombia. 

[Obinna]

3 minutes ago, Yohan said:

Isn't this a moot point if Medellin isn't willing to pay Oso's 1M wages? Because I just don't see TFC willing to eat some of Oso's salary just so that Oso can have fun in Colombia. 

Plus they already have to eat some of Aketxe's wages.

[1996]

7 hours ago, BrennanFan said:

We've had dominant MLS players leading our CMNT for years, and where has that gotten us?

Why do we lose in WCQ? Many reasons, surely. But one key point we've all agreed on is the mental aspect, a lack of mental toughness in key moments. This is not just about the hostile atmospheres, although that is involved. It's more about not being used to playing in highly intense do or die games where everything, and I mean everything, is on the line. Just one local derby in Medellin will be like nothing Oso has ever experienced. A libertadores game? Forget about it. It just has no comparison to a game against Tigres at BMO or an MLS playoff game in any way shape or form.  We are talking different worlds.

These killer situations is what we need our players to live every season. Especially for a player like Oso, who we will literally be asking and expecting to unlock a defence in a do or die WCQ game is a few months, this move would be so perfect for us it's almost unbelievable.   

But yet Canada can’t beat Central American teams loaded with MLS players hmmm?

[Kent]

21 hours ago, SpursFlu said:

Im trying to figure out what this conversation is all about and its a little tough to follow. To me its simple, if your a TFC fan and you value him, you wouldnt want him to go. From a CMNT perspective, who cares, he's 26 and has maxed out, let him play where he likes. Copa Libs rocks and i think startingnext year it will be on DAZN. So you can still follow him

I'm just curious, but would you have thought he's maxed out a year ago? He seemed to be a pretty consistent level for a few years, then had a break out year. He may never have a year that good again, or maybe he'll grow even more this coming year. Only time will tell if he is actually maxed out or not.

But I agree with the "let him play where he likes" part.

[SpursFlu]

Ya he was a late bloomer for sure. It also speaks to people getting an opportunity. I just dont believe at his age and the position he plays there is much more improving in him. I think the most important thing for him now is consistent playing time

[Ivan]

Report on TSN that TFC are looking at Juninho.  Apparently in Toronto for a medical.

https://www.tsn.ca/report-tfc-eyeing-ex-galaxy-star-juninho-1.1213509

[Obinna]

2 hours ago, Ivan said:

Report on TSN that TFC are looking at Juninho.  Apparently in Toronto for a medical.

https://www.tsn.ca/report-tfc-eyeing-ex-galaxy-star-juninho-1.1213509

Looks like a typical TFC signing: under used Veteran player still in his prime with experience winning things.

I'm not the greatest at math, but it seems to me this is one player too many in the midfield. Are Toronto really that traumatized by last years injury bug, or should we expect another midfielder to move on?

[Ivan]

I put that story here thinking Juninho was being brought in as a possible replacement for Osorio?  They seem similar players from what remember of Juninho.  Pure speculation of course.

[Obinna]

35 minutes ago, Ivan said:

I put that story here thinking Juninho was being brought in as a possible replacement for Osorio?  They seem similar players from what remember of Juninho.  Pure speculation of course.

I could see that being the case, but my gut says the TFC want the depth. I think they'll seriously manage the minutes Vazquez plays next season, and perhaps this enables them to rest Bradley more often. Or, they could potentially play both in a double pivot.

I think they missed having Cheryou last year, especially when Bradley dropped back to CB. And as much as I would be happy with acquiring Juninho, I fear it opens the door to continue the Bradley experiment in defense. That makes me nervous.

Juninho would come cheaper than the 700k Chicago paid him in 2017. He didn't play at all in 2018, so Tijuana don't have much room to negotiate here. Plus, long time FC Dallas manager Oscar Pereja just recently took over, and I am not sure Juninho is the profile of player he'd want to keep with the Mexican side. If his FCD side is any indication, Pereja is going to want young, mobile midfielders who are best when playing on the counter attack. From what I have read on Tijuana, they already play in this manner, so perhaps they already undervalued Juninho anyways, but this is all speculation on my part.

If Toronto can get him on a GAM contract, that would be outstanding. 

 

[Blackjack15]

The Libertadores is a very big deal in South America and would be great place for Osorio, he’s already proved he can match up with the very best Liga MX sides and won the CCL Golden Boot 

Plus the Colombian Primera A is arguably the 3rd best league behind Brazil and Argentina, Chile and Uruguay round up the Top 5

If it’s just a one year loan deal I’d be okay with that, but would still like him to stay at TFC after that 

Edited November 21, 2018 by Thomas

[Obinna]

For all the Transfer market lovers out there:

Independente Medellin: 15.78 M €

Toronto FC: 33.70 M €

(32.20 M € if you subtract Osorio)

Osorio would have the 3rd highest value on Independente Medellin, and would be the highest valued midfielder.

[Ansem]

4 minutes ago, Obinna said:

For all the Transfer market lovers out there:

Independente Medellin: 15.78 M €

Toronto FC: 33.70 M €

(32.20 M € if you subtract Osorio)

Osorio would have the 3rd highest value on Independente Medellin, and would be the highest valued midfielder.

Yeah because Altidore and Bradley are worth every pennies on their contracts ?

[Obinna]

5 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Yeah because Altidore and Bradley are worth every pennies on their contracts ?

Their contracts are different from their values. Davies value jumped from 1M€ to 10M€ the moment he signed for Bayern. His contract paid him 70k at the time.

Edited November 22, 2018 by Obinna