Keegan Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Obinna said: Well it's being held in Atlanta so.....no surprise. Oso was on the cusp and didn't make it this time. Shit happens. There's always next year (if he doesn't move abroad, that is). As good as Oso has been, his non-selection isn't criminal. Well now Quintero and Adams were added ahead of Osorio. Y’know because Adams 4 assists are really tearing up the league.. he should realistically be in the homegrown game. It is what it is.. an American League that pushes American players. Edited July 30, 2018 by Keegan gator 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tg11 Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Obinna said: Well it's being held in Atlanta so.....no surprise. Oso was on the cusp and didn't make it this time. Shit happens. There's always next year (if he doesn't move abroad, that is). As good as Oso has been, his non-selection isn't criminal. It ain't even like All Star snubs don't happen in sports because they do all the time but then guess what happen after it said and done? All Star snubs tear it up after the All Star break over...don't matter what sport it is ya heard me? Osorio will tear it up post MLS All Star Game. Edited July 30, 2018 by Tg11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obinna Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Keegan said: Well now Quintero and Adams were added ahead of Osorio. Y’know because Adams 4 assists are really tearing up the league.. he should realistically be in the homegrown game. It is what it is.. an American League that pushes American players. I agree with the bolded part, but to play devil's advocate, Adams plays for a NYRB team that's near the top of the table and Quintero has the same number of goals as Osorio in less games and he is the fulcrum of his club and Osorio isn't. Plus (it hurts me to say this) Minnesota is to date having a better season than Toronto. It would probably be a greater injustice to pick Osorio over Quintero although the two are neck-and-neck. You can't pick everyone and the fact we are having this convo is a nod to Oso. Edited July 30, 2018 by Obinna Kusch to the Corner and Ruffian 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegan Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 Quintero has the same number of goals as a striker.. Adams plays for NYRB.. so what? They already have two defenders on the roster for presumably the same reason. It’s an all star game based on individuals, not their team. There’s no doubt that Osorio should be on the team based on performance this season.. his numbers are closer to Valeri/Piatti than any other midfielder on that team. He has more goals than some of the strikers.. any way you want to twist the argument he should be there. It’s not a huge deal and helps TFC but it’s a fact, we all know if he was American he would be there no question. The only way you can discredit him is to say his team has been bad halfway through the season.. that’s not really an argument. You could say players shouldn’t be there because they’re on good teams and still not putting up as good numbers.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 It's not surprising at all that a soon-out-of-contract Canadian looking to leave the league would get beat out for a spot in the ASG. BradMack 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gigi riva Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 OSARIO not in the All Star game , Big deal something to use as Motivation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tg11 Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 15 minutes ago, jpg75 said: It's not surprising at all that a soon-out-of-contract Canadian looking to leave the league would get beat out for a spot in the ASG. Well he gon' leave MLS dat just a given but where he go is anyone's guess but not all great players make All Star Games. They go on to have great careers regardless any way which is the case for Osorio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saladroit Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 1 hour ago, Keegan said: Well now Quintero and Adams were added ahead of Osorio. Y’know because Adams 4 assists are really tearing up the league.. he should realistically be in the homegrown game. It is what it is.. an American League that pushes American players. well, he's not an attacking player for one thing. maybe try watching him play once or twice, because he's really really good and is primed for a transfer to RB Leipzig. Obinna and RS 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obinna Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Keegan said: Quintero has the same number of goals as a striker.. Adams plays for NYRB.. so what? They already have two defenders on the roster for presumably the same reason. It’s an all star game based on individuals, not their team. There’s no doubt that Osorio should be on the team based on performance this season.. his numbers are closer to Valeri/Piatti than any other midfielder on that team. He has more goals than some of the strikers.. any way you want to twist the argument he should be there. It’s not a huge deal and helps TFC but it’s a fact, we all know if he was American he would be there no question. The only way you can discredit him is to say his team has been bad halfway through the season.. that’s not really an argument. You could say players shouldn’t be there because they’re on good teams and still not putting up as good numbers.. Why is that relevant? You are the one who brought up Quintero and I point out he has the same number of goals as Osorio and now you are basically saying: "but...but...a striker also has 9 goals". So what? We are talking Osorio versus Quintero. Midfielder versus Midfielder. To say there is no doubt Osorio deserves to be an All Star is just straight up homerism and that's why I am arguing with you. I am not arguing with you because I want to discredit Osorio. Yes this is a Canadian Soccer fan page, and we are natually going to overreach when it comes to the players we love. I am not saying homerism is bad, it is to be expected. That said, we shouldn't go off the deep end either. Leave that to the American fans who worship their god Tyler Adams. We are better than that. And to that point, I already said I agree with you. Americans over inflate the talent of their own. It is no secret. This clearly disgusts you, but essentially you are doing the same thing when you say Osorio should have been an All Star "without a doubt". He is, in my opinion, definitely more deserving than Adams, but it's not clear cut as you make it seem if we are talking about Quintero. Players like Quintero are just as deserving, if not moreso. Adam's is also a more versitile player who sometimes plays in defensive spots, so I am not sure we can compare the two anyways. And at the end of the day, these selections aren't always made with logic in mind (though I wish they were). Sometimes the performance of a team is factored in. I agree with you that is should be irrelevant, but it is what it is. Edited July 30, 2018 by Obinna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegan Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 7 minutes ago, Obinna said: Why is that relevant? You are the one who brought up Quintero and I point out he has the same number of goals as Osorio and now you are basically saying: "but...but...a striker also has 9 goals". So what? We are talking Osorio versus Quintero. Midfielder versus Midfielder. To say there is no doubt Osorio deserves to be an All Star is just straight up homerism and that's why I am arguing with you. I am not arguing with you because I want to discredit Osorio. Yes this is a Canadian Soccer fan page, and we are natually going to overreach when it comes to the players we love. I am not saying homerism is bad, it is to be expected. That said, we shouldn't go off the deep end either. Leave that to the American fans who worship their god Tyler Adams. We are better than that. And to that point, I already said I agree with you. Americans over inflate the talent of their own. It is no secret. This clearly disgusts you, but essentially you are doing the same thing when you say Osorio should have been an All Star "without a doubt". He is definitely more deserving than Adams, but it's not clear cut as you make it seem. Players like Quintero are just as deserving, if not moreso. And at the end of the day, these selections aren't always made with logic in mind (though I wish they were). Sometimes the performance of a team is factored in. I agree with you that is should be irrelevant, but it is what it is. What are you talking about? Quintero is a forward my friend, that’s why I said what I said.. illustrating the fact he has just as good numbers playing central midfield. Tyler Adams is a good player for sure, but Osorio is having a better season. I’m not being over the top homer, I call it objectively. Osorio on merit is an all star. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegan Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 (edited) 13 minutes ago, saladroit said: well, he's not an attacking player for one thing. maybe try watching him play once or twice, because he's really really good and is primed for a transfer to RB Leipzig. Maybe you should? Murillo is the RB for NYRB and is on the all star team. Adams is a midfielder same as Oso. Edited July 30, 2018 by Keegan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oranje Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 I find it odd that I haven't really heard any specific teams (even pie-in-the-sky rumors in the twittersphere) floating around out there. Has anyone heard anything specific? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obinna Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Keegan said: What are you talking about? Quintero is a forward my friend, that’s why I said what I said.. illustrating the fact he has just as good numbers playing central midfield. Tyler Adams is a good player for sure, but Osorio is having a better season. I’m not being over the top homer, I call it objectively. Osorio on merit is an all star. At best Quintero is a secondary striker, at least for his current club. If I recall correctly, he's been playing mostly as an attacking midfielder and Osorio has played in thst position also. I don't know if you watch Minnesota, but he is not leading the line like Josef Martinez. And again, if he is a striker in your mind, why did you even bring him up in the first place? Osorio is not competing with strikers for an all star selection. Osorio does deserve a selection based on merit but so to a lot of other players. My issue comes when you make statements like he should be selected "without a doubt". If you want to walk that back it's fine, but that particular statement is homerism, no two ways about it. Edited July 30, 2018 by Obinna afun and Free kick 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 It's pure American propaganda that Osorio gets shunned for the All-Star Game but Brad Guzan gets picked. Osorio has 8 more goals than Guzan this season! AND two more assists! Obinna, Keegan, jpg75 and 7 others 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegan Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Obinna said: At best Quintero is a secondary striker, at least for his current club. If I recall correctly, he's been playing mostly as an attacking midfielder and Osorio has played in thst position also. I don't know if you watch Minnesota, but he is not leading the line like Josef Martinez. And again, if he is a striker in your mind, why did you even bring him up in the first place? Osorio is not competing with strikers for an all star selection. Osorio does deserve a selection based on merit but so to a lot of other players. My issue comes when you make statements like he should be selected "without a doubt". If you want to walk that back it's fine, but that particular statement is homerism, no two ways about it. Quintero plays a striker/secondary striker role at best where he’s the focal point of the attack similar to Piatti, Valeri, Giovinco etc. The same role he has played throughout his career even back to facing Montreal in 2009. He does not play the same role as Osorio. I brought him up simply because he was added to the roster that already has 6/7 strikers and Osorio can compare to his numbers despite playing midfield as opposed to forward. The truth is when you call that many forwards they are competing with midfielders for spots self evidently. Osorio has never been called a forward and very rarely plays attacking midfielder unless we have an injury crisis.. he’s an attack minded central mid. Osorio deserves to be there over Giovinco as well, I have no problem making that claim. I stand by my without a doubt statement because he’s having a better season than half the players he could plausibly replace (and when you call 7 strikers I think it’s fair game to call out a few). It’s not homerism, it’s just a fact in my mind - he’s having a better year than Bernier or Johnson in 2013 when both were all stars as well. Everyone getting all upset about me citing his numbers on the year so I won’t. I’ll just say he’s having a better season. Edited July 30, 2018 by Keegan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obinna Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Keegan said: Quintero plays a striker/secondary striker role at best where he’s the focal point of the attack similar to Piatti, Valeri, Giovinco etc. The same role he has played throughout his career even back to facing Montreal in 2009. He does not play the same role as Osorio. I brought him up simply because he was added to the roster that already has 6/7 strikers and Osorio can compare to his numbers despite playing midfield as opposed to forward. The truth is when you call that many forwards they are competing with midfielders for spots self evidently. Osorio has never been called a forward and very rarely plays attacking midfielder unless we have an injury crisis.. he’s an attack minded central mid. Osorio deserves to be there over Giovinco as well, I have no problem making that claim. I stand by my without a doubt statement because he’s having a better season than half the players he could plausibly replace (and when you call 7 strikers I think it’s fair game to call out a few). It’s not homerism, it’s just a fact in my mind - he’s having a better year than Bernier or Johnson in 2013 when both were all stars as well. Everyone getting all upset about me citing his numbers on the year so I won’t. I’ll just say he’s having a better season. I think you can simplify the Osorio versus Quintero debate by looking at which player is more valuable to his team. It's that simple really. As for your claim Osorio should have been called over Giovinco, I have no issue with that. I also have no issue with the opposite. That is my point, really. Like I keep saying, you can't call them all. You bring up the 6/7 strikers called, but would you ever claim Osorio deserves a call over Josef Martinez? No, you wouldn't. I don't think you'd be THAT much of a homer "Without a doubt" you'd be forced to select Martinez. Osorio is not in that category, is he? Very few players league wide are... Also, no good comparing Bernier and Johnson. Different year. But i do see what you're saying when it comes to the fact Osorio is putting up better numbers than Giovinco. Thanks for clarifying why you were comparing a forward to a midfielder. That is fair game to make the argument he should get called over them. I don't buy the without doubt stuff though... Edited July 30, 2018 by Obinna Keegan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 36 minutes ago, Obinna said: I think you can simplify the Osorio versus Quintero debate by looking at which player is more valuable to his team. It's that simple really. As for your claim Osorio should have been called over Giovinco, I have no issue with that. I also have no issue with the opposite. That is my point, really. Like I keep saying, you can't call them all. You bring up the 6/7 strikers called, but would you ever claim Osorio deserves a call over Josef Martinez? No, you wouldn't. I don't think you'd be THAT much of a homer "Without a doubt" you'd be forced to select Martinez. Osorio is not in that category, is he? Very few players league wide are... Also, no good comparing Bernier and Johnson. Different year. But i do see what you're saying when it comes to the fact Osorio is putting up better numbers than Giovinco. Thanks for clarifying why you were comparing a forward to a midfielder. That is fair game to make the argument he should get called over them. I don't buy the without doubt stuff though... While it may seem like it, that's not the case. Osorio has two more goals, but Giovinco has way more assists. They almost seem like they should swap positions on the field based purely on their numbers this year (although this is a great example of why basing arguments purely on numbers is foolish). Obinna and aloyol 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obinna Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 1 minute ago, RS said: While it may seem like it, that's not the case. Osorio has two more goals, but Giovinco has way more assists. They almost seem like they should swap positions on the field based purely on their numbers this year (although this is a great example of why basing arguments purely on numbers is foolish). This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 Remember about 3 years ago Frank Lampard was named to the MLS all-star game before he had even played a game in MLS for NYCFC. The all-star selections are often based more on star attraction rather than actual output on the field, and the bias against Osorio is the same one against nearly all Canadians - that is, that Canada has done little internationally (ie. nothing in World Cup Qualifying) in almost the entire time that the MLS has been around. A few players have either been so successful in the league (ie. De Rosario) that they transcended this or are now transcending MLS itself (Davies) that they have been called. Brennan was called in 2008 or whenever it was not because he was a true all-star IMO but because the game was being held in Toronto (as an aside remember when the US commentators calling the game ridiculously assumed that the crown was shouting "We want Landon" when it was really "We want Brennan"?). An argument can definitely be made for Osorio being named to the all-star team but he wasn't for the same reason why Fox didn't show his goal but did show the ones by Giovinco & Altidore during half-time of the Seattle-NYCFC game yesterday, despite the Osorio goal easily being the nicest one of the three, which is the reason I alluded to above. Keegan, Free kick, Obinna and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearcatSA Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 40 minutes ago, RS said: While it may seem like it, that's not the case. Osorio has two more goals, but Giovinco has way more assists. They almost seem like they should swap positions on the field based purely on their numbers this year (although this is a great example of why basing arguments purely on numbers is foolish). Giovinco is still the focal point of this team's attacking play. He'd have even more assists if a few guys could have finished his set ups. And he's been doing the creating without having Altidore as his partner for most of the season or a healthy Vazquez in his best role in attacking midfield as opposed to being deployed up top alongside him. Of the possible off season scenarios for Osorio the one I would be a little leery of is that of a big money move to another MLS team. I'd like to see him get a significant raise to stay in TO or get a move abroad instead. Obinna 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegan Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 2 hours ago, Obinna said: I think you can simplify the Osorio versus Quintero debate by looking at which player is more valuable to his team. It's that simple really. As for your claim Osorio should have been called over Giovinco, I have no issue with that. I also have no issue with the opposite. That is my point, really. Like I keep saying, you can't call them all. You bring up the 6/7 strikers called, but would you ever claim Osorio deserves a call over Josef Martinez? No, you wouldn't. I don't think you'd be THAT much of a homer "Without a doubt" you'd be forced to select Martinez. Osorio is not in that category, is he? Very few players league wide are... Also, no good comparing Bernier and Johnson. Different year. But i do see what you're saying when it comes to the fact Osorio is putting up better numbers than Giovinco. Thanks for clarifying why you were comparing a forward to a midfielder. That is fair game to make the argument he should get called over them. I don't buy the without doubt stuff though... Whoa I’m not crazy!! Just because I say no doubt doesn’t mean he’s first name on the team sheet. I just feel he’s having a better year than many called. at the end of the day as others have said though, this is more of a popularity contest than a competition based on merit.. few of those spots exist. Also it’s right you can’t compare players on numbers but it’s a much better indicator than saying who plays on a better team.. and when you take away the numbers that is the ridiuclous metric most are trying to use. How do we access Audi player index numbers anyone know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obinna Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 29 minutes ago, Keegan said: Also it’s right you can’t compare players on numbers but it’s a much better indicator than saying who plays on a better team.. and when you take away the numbers that is the ridiuclous metric most are trying to use. How do we access Audi player index numbers anyone know? Agreed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kent Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 Wow, the last couple pages show the futility of trying to assign value to, and as a result make sense of, all star games. They are useless and usually boring games. Whoever plays, plays. I gave up on getting outraged about who is and isn’t on the teams a loooong time ago jpg75, BearcatSA, red card and 5 others 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyslexic nam Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 Yet another Canadian Championship goal. TFC probably should have locked down his contract earlier because with the way he is playing I think his wages probably creep up every game he plays. Addona 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackjack15 Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 Excellent season in all competitions hamiltonfan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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