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MLS referee crew major screw up


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The only thing I can see is that the player going for the ball who was offside was called because he interfered with play. Had he just stood there and let Porter take it he would not interferre. No way was Porter offside. Damn shame as that would have been a great heads up and play to the whistle goal for Porter.

PS. Every time I go to MLS website I can't believe that this is what they pay money for. What a joke.

Edited by tmcmurph
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That was a goal. The ref and linesman should be fired. Inexcusable incompetence.

I agree with the referee's Pajol by his run influenced the play, he was close enough to the ball trajectory and kept his movement up long enough to cause the Columbus back line to abandon playing as they saw him clearly being offside, indeed the Crew CB ( second from bottom of screen ) steps up putting Pajol offiside as the ball is about to be struck on the through pass.

1:19 two crew defenders between two DC players and net.

1:20 CB and one DC player, the other pair moved up towards centre line.

1:21 Pajol in offside position

1:23 Through ball struck Pajol in offside position.

1:24 Pajol making run to collect ball he moves to the sideline, with purpose.

1:26 Pajol still moving with purpose to ball, which is beyond last Crew defender. Porter is on side, near touch line making his run.

1:27 Pajol in advanced position, running with purpose for ball, four crew defenders flat and only one playing to recover on him and ball, others already walking. Porter advances past Crew defenders, Pajol still making purposefull run.

1:28 Porter through and Pajol begins to abandon his run, after influencing play ( my words ).

Frankly I think its the right call by the referee crew, Pajol influenced play, he did not touch ball but he moved to it with purpose when he was clearly in and offside position, his run caused the Crew defenders to abandon there runs as they saw him doing this and having been in an offside position was now offside attempting to get to the ball to play it from an offside position.

Other interpretations, with reference to FIFA published rules welcome.

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^^ It is not up to the players to determine whether a player is offside and to stop playing because of it. It sucked for Columbus that the ref made a huge mistake in putting his flag up when the player was in an offside position but not yet offside because he had not played the ball however the rules state you need to play to the whistle. Pajol did not interfere with any opposition player or influence the play at all other than the Columbus players thinking he is offside which is not their call to make. It was a clear goal and a clear robbery of a point from DCU. They should protest this result and at the very least the ref and linesman should be dropped down to 3rd division. Absolute incompetence.

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^^ It is not up to the players to determine whether a player is offside and to stop playing because of it. It sucked for Columbus that the ref made a huge mistake in putting his flag up when the player was in an offside position but not yet offside because he had not played the ball however the rules state you need to play to the whistle. Pajol did not interfere with any opposition player or influence the play at all other than the Columbus players thinking he is offside which is not their call to make. It was a clear goal and a clear robbery of a point from DCU. They should protest this result and at the very least the ref and linesman should be dropped down to 3rd division. Absolute incompetence.

Absolutely.

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For the offside rule "active involvement" does include attempting to play the ball. DCU offside player attempted to play the ball by running toward it but stopped when the flag went up...

Seems to me that the call is correct.

I disagree with that interpretation, but we've disagreed on this topic before, so it's no surprise :)

http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/afdeveloping/refereeing/law_11_offside_en_47383.pdf (look at slides 10 and 11)

According to this document, being in the area of active play is not the same as being actively involved in the play.

Interesting to note it defines interfering with play as "playing or touching the ball passed or touched by a team-mate" , not as any of the definitions given in the above posts.

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I disagree with that interpretation, but we've disagreed on this topic before, so it's no surprise :)

http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/afdeveloping/refereeing/law_11_offside_en_47383.pdf (look at slides 10 and 11)

According to this document, being in the area of active play is not the same as being actively involved in the play.

Interesting to note it defines interfering with play as "playing or touching the ball passed or touched by a team-mate" , not as any of the definitions given in the above posts.

When he runs toward the ball, he is playing it. No?

I think the active involvement interpretation I have is from the USSF.

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When he runs toward the ball, he is playing it. No?

I think the active involvement interpretation I have is from the USSF.

Not to me. I think the language is intentionally slightly vague to allow referees to use their judgement, without being pinned to a black and white rule, to allow play to continue to have fewer stoppages and more goals (at least that is what i thought the rule was changed to do).

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Other interpretations, with reference to FIFA published rules welcome.

From the laws of the game: http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/worldfootball/clubfootball/01/37/04/27/interpretation_law11_en.pdf

Example 3: (Interpretations of the Laws of the Game section)

An attacker in an offside position (A) runs towards the ball and a team-mate

in an onside position (B) also runs towards the ball and plays it.

(A) cannot be penalised because he did not touch the ball.

Also go to Law 11 and watch the Interactive Guide to Offside, there are examples of this in the guide.

As a referee I've attended at least 5 education sessions on offside and the instructions for Assistant Referees (not linesman) is always to wait and see, a late right call is better then an early wrong call.

As I said above and in complete agreement with Grizzly, this crew should be sanctioned.

Also a good lesson for players to play the whistle as the referee has the right to overrule the AR, though you seldom see it happen at the pro level. Actually the referee did at first as he signalled and probably yelled to keep playing and then went back and discussed with the AR.

Edited by MM2
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But the guy clearly influenced the play.... not sure what people are so upset about.

If he was on the other side of the field walking back, that is what the rule is for.

The guy ran on to the through ball from like five yards offside, which in that position you are NOT supposed to do.

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But the guy clearly influenced the play.... not sure what people are so upset about.

If he was on the other side of the field walking back, that is what the rule is for.

The guy ran on to the through ball from like five yards offside, which in that position you are NOT supposed to do.

There are a lot of misconceptions with players and spectators on the Offside Law (and most others). Influencing play is not a factor, being "actively involved in play" is and FIFA clearly defines what this in the laws of the game. Words must be used in context and FIFA defines the context to referees.

Will be interesting to see what the MLS Referee PRO has to say about this.

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There are a lot of misconceptions with players and spectators on the Offside Law (and most others). Influencing play is not a factor, being "actively involved in play" is and FIFA clearly defines what this in the laws of the game. Words must be used in context and FIFA defines the context to referees.

Will be interesting to see what the MLS Referee PRO has to say about this.

A guy that runs on to a through ball from an offside position that close is actively involved.

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I watched the whole game, the refs were right to call back the goal, it was offside interference.

My 8 year old saw it before I did, Pajoy ran towards the ball, it is pretty cut and dry.

I thought the reffing was good, they didn't allow any diving and didn't take crap from players, they had control of the game throughout as well.

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^

I totally disagree. FIFA says "being in the area of active play is not the same as being actively involved in the play". He didn't even try to play the ball. He moved toward it and stopped because he was in an offside position. Porter wasn't and Porter was the only "active player" in the play.

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^

I totally disagree. FIFA says "being in the area of active play is not the same as being actively involved in the play". He didn't even try to play the ball. He moved toward it and stopped because he was in an offside position. Porter wasn't and Porter was the only "active player" in the play.

Pajol only stopped moving to be "actively involved" once Porter was clearly going to be away with the ball.

If all those who would see it as a goal, would think... a bit about intent it might help clarify things, Pajol clearly intended to play the ball he moved to it a pace, he kept moving at pace till he saw a fellow player "in a better position" to play the ball, remember Pajol was heading to the touch line the ball trajectory between him and touch line, Porter was coming through off the touch line, in a better position to reach the ball and have a effective attack on the goal.

So if we intuit intent and you do not call an offside, were Pajol's actions on purpose ?

I have not watched the full game, hard to read what was in the official's mind but.... if Pajol had been offside or in offside positions consistently during the game, the call might well have been influenced by that.

Imagine Marco De Viao for Montreal being in an offside position six or seven times in a game, and the same situation occuring, would the Assistant on the line say oh its okay .... De Vaio actions previously do not influence the defenders this time ?

To me its good call by referee's, as to if the centre indicating anything verbally to the players or visually during the seconds involved I am not sure, will take a look again at the replay to see If I see anything that changes my opinion .... created after getting to replay the seconds many times....

Just looked again an its clear the assistant referee got it right, once the ball was through and Pajol continued to it he put his flag up.... at 1:28 on the clip. and more importantly the Centre ref has moved his right hand to his mouth as he switched from walking in the centre circle to running, he was clearly prepared to blow his whistle, well before Porter could play the ball.

Any indication by the centre of "play on" from the video could only have happened at 1:30.

Edited by Trillium
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The only thing I could fault the referee for was not blowing his whistle right away; if he had no one would even question what happened because we've all seen that offside call made hundreds of times.

Bingo.

Regardless of whether the offside call was correct or not, the incident is made 1,000 times worse by the fact play continued, and a goal was scored (and then subsequently disallowed).

Either way, nice finish by Porter. That's really what all of us should be most concerned with, methinks.

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Bingo.

Regardless of whether the offside call was correct or not, the incident is made 1,000 times worse by the fact play continued, and a goal was scored (and then subsequently disallowed).

Either way, nice finish by Porter. That's really what all of us should be most concerned with, methinks.

Well, if we go back to a certain GC 1/2 final in 2007, I think we all would've like to see the ref wait before blowing his whistle and go to his AR after the goal to sort the situation out. Maybe a little discussion between the ref and his AR can help get the right call and is better than calling it right away?

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I think most speaking here (except Grizzly and maccaliam) have not really understood the Offside law, has anyone bothered to review the Interactive Guide on the FIFA website!

Below from a referee on Bigsoccer,

Doesn't that interpretation require that we ignore this language in the very same section?

"This decision would require no onside attacker in the vicinity who could play the ball.

And this?"

Likewise, "because an attacker running from an offside position toward a ball played into space by a teammate could decide at any moment to stop or swerve away and thus avoid contact with the ball, the mere movement of the attacker toward the ball cannot constitute "interfering with play."

And, perhaps most importantly, this?

According to the IFAB Circular of August 17, 2005: "A player in an offside position may be penalized before playing or touching the ball if, in the opinion of the referee, no other teammate in an onside position has the opportunity to play the ball.”

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