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Bryce Alderson

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Contributions of our Academies to the MNT = PR

U17 camp next week - 7 Whitecaps, 5 TFC 3 Impact = PR

U15 camp next week - 8 Whitecaps, 5 TFC, 2 Impact = PR

 

Do you recognize these threads?

Every thread you make it's PR. The title makes look it's about the national team but then you realize it's all about the Caps, as every post that came from you in this thread.

Edited by canucklefan

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Contributions of our Academies to the MNT = PR

U17 camp next week - 7 Whitecaps, 5 TFC 3 Impact = PR

U15 camp next week - 8 Whitecaps, 5 TFC, 2 Impact = PR

 

Do you recognize these threads?

Every thread you make it's PR. The title makes look it's about the national team but then you realize it's all about the Caps, as every post that came from you in this thread.

 

Facts are now PR? You really do need to visit reality.

 

I'm proud of my club team's contributions to our MNT and that is PR? No that is justifiable pride. 

 

The threads about the U17 & 15 camps have the contribution from each club listed in descending order from most to least. This is PR? I'm very happy to see players from all three academies making the cut. That is what will work. 

 

If you look in the "Contributions to our MNT" thread you'll see I was cheering when Montreal got their first player capped. That is what it is all about. Getting players to that level. I also cut Montreal some slack by pointing out that they hadn't started an academy until recently so I wasn't expecting instant results. A few years in and all 3 clubs are making contributions.

 

I've also gone out of my way to try and be fair to TFC for their early years before they had an official academy by including their players like Henry who played for their reserves. 

 

And you still haven't answered the question. At what point do you put the onus on the player? 

Edited by TRM

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It’s too bad that this thread became a conflict between TFC and Whitecaps. I understand that Whitecaps fans are probably the most loyal to their club than TFC’s and Impact’s, but I find it’s a shame that they will put always the Whitecaps before the MNT... in a MNT forum!

 

I used to criticize the Whitecaps but I realised it was unfair because neither TFC nor the Impact are a reference in Canadian content:

1. TFC had 2 regulars, Osorio and Henry. Bekker could be considered a 3rd regular or could not.

2. Impact had Bernier as a regular but I won’t consider him a regular for MNT purposes because he’s too old for the next WCQ campaign. I’m not sure Tissot played enough to be considered a regular.

3. The Whitecaps had one regular, Teibert.

 

Let’s say Bekker and Tissot were regulars this season. That makes 3 regulars for TFC, 1 for the Impact and 1 for the Whitecaps.

 

Can anyone conclude that 3 regulars against 1 is to considered a reference?

 

I won’t criticize anymore the Whitecaps but I have issues with the arguments of some Whitecaps posters:

 

Clubs exist to win and make money.

Clubs are also sanctioned by the CSA, which means they are of the program. That’s why I’m so pissed about the possibility that the Whitecaps management supported Bustos decision to attend a Chile camp. That would mean that the program is broken as there’s something fundamentally wrong that happened there.

 

1) Running an academy before it was even in MLS.

2) Providing first rate training for kids 12-18

3) Providing well paying jobs to 18 year old players from their academy 

4) Being beyond the minimum players required by the CSA

5) Using up roster spots on the 30 man roster

6) Training them with the first team daily

 

 All that means nothing if the final results is no professional or first team minutes. The arguments mean nothing to the program and to the chances to qualify to a WC.

 

Finally, there was a poster that suggested in the “Canadian in MLS” thread to find s

I thiomeone in Osorio's position so he can be benched, and then release Bekker, as if the program had a ton of Canadian professional players. I wonder what’s the meaning behind those wishes, to make Floro’s job more difficult than it already is? To decrease Canada’s chances to qualify to a WC? Not that the chances are high anyways....

 

Sometimes I don’t really understand the logic behind some of the arguments.

 

I think you'll find most of your post applies to only one person.  I disagree with a lot he says too.  Generally, Caps fans take offense to 'Caps hate Canada', because we are CMNT fans.  Generally, most Caps fans here agree that the lack of 1st team min is bad, but see the long term plan and believe its working - see U20 and U17 rosters.

 

On the flip side, you'll notice not one of the Caps hate Canada crowd will answer my question - why do you think that is?

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I made the mistake of reading this thread, and I regret it.

 

The debate itself is fine to have, but some of the insults being thrown around are quite frankly, childish. Makes me a little embarrassed to be a Voyageur. Grow up

We are slowly turning into Big Soccer.

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I made the mistake of reading this thread, and I regret it.

 

The debate itself is fine to have, but some of the insults being thrown around are quite frankly, childish. Makes me a little embarrassed to be a Voyageur. Grow up

 

This happens because this forum has zero moderation.

 

There isn't even a report button anymore since the latest forum upgrade.

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Yeah. Things have escalated quickly and I think we can tone things down here.

To be clear, I am national teams first and whitecaps second. I LOVE the national teams and our players, I only support the Whitecaps as my local side. If USL Pro happens and is filled with a bunch of Canadian kids, I will be more excited about those games and not the MLS ones.

Having said that, as somebody who is close to the situation, I just don't believe that if you look at the situation logically and impartially, you can come to the conclusion of the caps hate canada rhetoric. Yes, they play the least Canadian minutes, but they play Canadians that deserve to play. What would playing a Kyle Porter (using him as an example as he was brought up by somebody else) achieve? He is a good Canadian kid and all that, but he is not MLS quality. Period. We can delude ourselves into thinking otherwise, but that is my opinion, and I'm sure many coaching staffs around the league agree.

I feel for TMR I understand his desire to defend the club because this anti whitecaps stuff has been kind of incessant. I don't feel the need to do that. All I care about is what is best for the player. Alderson leaving is best for the player. Fisk leaving was best for the player. The time may come when it is best for Teibert and/or Adekugbe to leave as well. And I'm totally fine with that.

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Having said that, as somebody who is close to the situation, I just don't believe that if you look at the situation logically and impartially, you can come to the conclusion of the caps hate canada rhetoric.

Just to be clear, obviously "the Whitecaps hate Canada" is ********. They spend large sums on their youth academy, they're at least trying to get a USL Pro team set up (even if they're doing it with taxpayer money, it's not their fault if councils want to write big cheques), they have signed some guys and given serious looks to some others, and as people are rightly saying some Canadians the Whitecaps have signed just weren't good enough. I think it's clear that the Whitecaps, on some level, want to have Canadian stars.

My problem is that their priorities seem wrong. In my opinion they'd rather run out limited journeymen than young Canadian players who are obviously worse now, but might well be better after a few seasons' experience. They have too many eyes towards marketing and not enough towards building a "club" in the classic sense. There doesn't seem to be enough thought to how they can represent that maple leaf flag on their sleeve, and once, not too long ago, they were the best in the country at it. And they won games.

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I think you'll find most of your post applies to only one person.  I disagree with a lot he says too.  Generally, Caps fans take offense to 'Caps hate Canada', because we are CMNT fans.  Generally, most Caps fans here agree that the lack of 1st team min is bad, but see the long term plan and believe its working - see U20 and U17 rosters.

 

On the flip side, you'll notice not one of the Caps hate Canada crowd will answer my question - why do you think that is?

 

I took the chance to "open" your post. Since you asked politely, I will give you an answer hoping that you won't reply with insults and do something useful instead of my reply. I can't answer your question, I don't know what the question is because you are in my ignore list, which means I can't see your messages unless I "open" them. I assure you, it's not a personal thing. When you answer to the people, I don't like that your replies come almost always with anger. Do you think people will reply to you if they fear you will answer with insults or anger? Ignore list or not, maybe the people are avoiding to have a conversation with you. Again, I hope you will do some reflection and avoid the insults.

 

Sorry about my post off topic.

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I took the chance to "open" your post. Since you asked politely, I will give you an answer hoping that you won't reply with insults and do something useful instead of my reply. I can't answer your question, I don't know what the question is because you are in my ignore list, which means I can't see your messages unless I "open" them. I assure you, it's not a personal thing. When you answer to the people, I don't like that your replies come almost always with anger. Do you think people will reply to you if they fear you will answer with insults or anger? Ignore list or not, maybe the people are avoiding to have a conversation with you. Again, I hope you will do some reflection and avoid the insults.

 

Sorry about my post off topic.

 

I haven't insulted anyone or used foul language.

 

I can assure you that what might come across as anger is actually frustration. 

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This will likely be my last post to this topic, at least until there is a new development in Bryce Alderson's career. However, a point I'd like to make about the 'Whitecaps Hate Canada' crowd, is that they are irrational, illogical, and inconsistent. For this reason, it becomes easier to address them with the derision that they deserve rather than try to engage them in any real debate. When faced with logic that refutes their dogmatic position, they simply disappear from the thread only to come back a couple of pages later spouting the same nonsense that they always do. They are oblivious to any real intellectual discourse. In ten years, the two or three most-prominent members of that crowd will still be boring us with the same ********.

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Hopefully TFC sign him and put him in their USL Pro team.  He's still young enough to develop and upside is there for Alderson to become a good MLS player.    

 

This is a "rival" club supporter making a positive remark concerning a national team member. Just pointing out it can be done.

 

I agree with the sentiment but I'd like to hear more official announcements concerning USLPro in Toronto before poaching potential players.

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http://d10.paraguay.com/zapag-quiere-prescindir-los-extranjeros-mas-adelante-n621249

 

Zapag wants a league without foreigners

Juan José Zapag, president of Cerro Porteño, said regarding foreign quota for the following championships. He believes the league should operate without foreign players to make more room for national players.

     The quota of foreigners would be modified for the following season. Currently the Paraguayan clubs can have only 2 foreigners [this rule was implemented after Paraguay elimination for Brazil 2014]. The president of Cerro Porteno, Juan José Zapag said that one of the situations that helped the emergence of Sergio Diaz [16 year-old kid with 8 goals in 17 games played with the first team], is the regulation of foreigner content, which forces the teams to have young players in the squad.

     Regarding rumors that they want to increase the number of foreigners for the next championship, Zapag said in an interview for the 1080 AM that "I think it should reduced to one the next year (2016) and the next (2017) to none. (...) Diaz would not be in the First Division if we had four foreigners. "

     Some clubs want to increase the number of foreign players to the next tournament and Zapag stressed that "common sense that if you reduce the foreign quota this year, you can’t increase it later."

     Cerro Porteño counts only with two professionals who do not have the Paraguayan citizenship. They are the Spanish Dani Guiza, one of the variants of TD Leonardo Astrada and almost always have some playing time, and the Argentine Mauricio Sperduti, a starter in the azulgrana team.

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There should be Canadian quotas for the Canadian clubs. As in a certain number of Canadians in the starting XI, not just "on the roster"

 

I live in Vancouver and only take a passing interest in the 'Caps because it is basically just a mish-mash of players from around the world. I would be much more interested if they had more British Columbians/Canadians, that's for sure.

 

Even the Canucks take heat for not drafting local/"western Canadian" kids!

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That is a national league, not a league spanning more than one country, like our top 3 clubs are a part of.

Aren't we trying to build a professional level pyramid in Canada? Regardless of the origin of the league, Montreal, Toronto and Vancouver are Canadian professional clubs.

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There should be Canadian quotas for the Canadian clubs. As in a certain number of Canadians in the starting XI, not just "on the roster"

 

I live in Vancouver and only take a passing interest in the 'Caps because it is basically just a mish-mash of players from around the world. I would be much more interested if they had more British Columbians/Canadians, that's for sure.

 

Even the Canucks take heat for not drafting local/"western Canadian" kids!

 

And there are 2 threads dedicated to discussing just those issues. There are pros and cons to each side with examples of successful approaches using each method. 

 

http://www.thevoyageurs.org/index.php?/topic/27280-increasing-the-canadian-mls-quota/?hl=responsibility#entry492017

http://www.thevoyageurs.org/index.php?/topic/25476-responsibilities-of-canadian-pro-teams/?hl=responsibility#entry461043

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I wanted to throw in one comment in here.  Keep in mind that our desire to see Canadians play more is somewhat of a minority view compared to the average fan.  Most fans want to see an entertaining, winning product and the passports of the players are irrelevant.  I always like to bring up the A-League Calgary Storm as an example.  In 2002, they had Lars and Ledgerwood starting, other U20 players like Dutra and Lemire playing regularly, and a young Ryan Gyaki who was expected to do big things and was a pretty hot Canadian prospect at the time.  Yet attendance was lousy mostly because the team lost all the time.  Some of us had a pretty good idea of what we were seeing - some of the better young Canadian players - but this narrative did not translate into attendance.

 

Jason

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Last I knew he was training in Kitchener to head off on a bunch of trials in Europe. I think that is his first choice at this point. Don't know where he is trialing though. He still has time to make USL Pro squads.

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Last I knew he was training in Kitchener to head off on a bunch of trials in Europe. I think that is his first choice at this point. Don't know where he is trialing though. He still has time to make USL Pro squads.

 

Alderson doesn't want to play USL as evidenced by his refusal to return to Charleston.  He should be looking to follow Fisk's path to a small club where he can get minutes immediately. 

 

I would have thought Alderson was a sure bet to be one of the young Canadians to break into MLS and his story is that of a broken system sadly. 

 

Take a look at the 2011 U17 WC roster.  Which players have played in MLS from that team? 

 

Aleman, Petrasso, Carreiro, Alderson, Piette, Stanese, Gasparotto all were stars on that team and not one has made a MLS appearance.

 

Shockingly that U17 team has 0 league appearances in our "domestic" league despite many of those players coming through MLS academies.  In every other CONCACAF country that would be unheard of, especially for a team as talented as that generation was. 

 

Roberts, Crepeau and Chapman are on their respective first teams and with any luck Chapman will be the first player from that 2011 team to play in MLS this season. 

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Most of them didn't pursue MLS at all now did they? And the broken system has not withhold Russell Teibert from breaking through. I admit that he would have had some help if the WFC2 were in place two years ago. In fact, I still think it's the best option for him.

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