12 year old Michael Thornton and the perception of TFC Academy

[jpg75]

So this article published in the Toronto Star on Friday is meant to demonstrate the tough choices soccer parents have to deal with in this country if their kid is a serious soccer prospect.

http://www.thestar.com/sports/soccer/2013/03/15/michael_thornton_12yearold_soccer_star_from_toronto_moving_to_europe_to_chase_his_dream.html

Michael Thornton is a striker for Moredale Gold SC born in 2000 - currently 12 years old, soon-to-be 13 - who is being sought after by Man. Utd, Roma, Inter, Sampdoria and PSG. The family will be making a trip in May to Spain to see if they can get any interest from clubs there. The entire family is prepared to relocate for Michael's sake so he can chase his dream of playing pro soccer.

I guess the biggest question that needs to be asked is why the hell is TFC not an option? Did he get scouted for the U12 program last year or the U13 this year? Is it that the parents don't think much of the TFCA program and turned them down? Or did TFC not see the talent he had?

[Obinna]

The first answer which comes to mind is that those euro clubs are more sexy, but bigger clubs don't translate to "best academies". I wonder if the family hopes that signing with Man U or PSG for example will translate to a future with those first teams? We know that is hardly the case. Relocating your family sounds like a bit much when you have an academy on your doorstep. I obviously don't know the player, but I would think moving to a club like Ajax or Southhampton would be better. Correct me if I am wrong, but the clubs listed do not have a reputation for having strong academies that produce a lot of players do they?

[DigzTFC]

Paul Thornton on his son:

"So we have a dilemma, we have a superstar son who plays soccer and his goal/aspiration is to be a professional soccer player. The problem is the best professional soccer players in the world are developed in Europe. We live in Canada. Where does this leave us? Unfortunately or fortunately, I don't know how you want to see it, our family is going to have to make the move to Europe. Which includes my wife, myself, my other two children and my superstar son. So we have to relocate, get a job there, we have to get a house there in a country where we don't speak the language. We might not know the culture. Totally different environment that we are in now and it's an interruption to our stability. But the thing is it is an opportunity for my son to turn into the best player he can be if not the best."

Few highlights:

- The reference of superstar twice

- Becoming "The" best in world

I don't have children yet, so I'm not familiar with how best to manage expectations. I wish the Michael Thorton the absolute best truly. I would say simply, with the mindset of his father, TFC would never be an option.

[VPjr]

the boy is an outstanding talent. I know he's been to Europe a couple of times already and has impressed those clubs that he has trained with.

putting Michael in the proper development environment is important but i'm not sure what the ideal landing spot is for this boy. Obviously, a club like Barcelona or Real Madrid would provide a high quality development environment with alot of competition. There are clubs in Germany and holland that would also be very good.

an MLS academy might be a good spot for him but they don't have enough of a track record at this point to likely provide this highly motivated family with the kind of assurance that their son will achieve his full potential

[TFC07]

I might be confusing Michael with someone else here, but I heard a talented kid who trialed with Roma got turned down by TFCA during their open tryouts a year or two years ago. Not 100% sure if this is same kid though.

[nolando]

So this article published in the Toronto Star on Friday is meant to demonstrate the tough choices soccer parents have to deal with in this country if their kid is a serious soccer prospect.

http://www.thestar.com/sports/soccer/2013/03/15/michael_thornton_12yearold_soccer_star_from_toronto_moving_to_europe_to_chase_his_dream.html

Michael Thornton is a striker for Moredale Gold SC born in 2000 - currently 12 years old, soon-to-be 13 - who is being sought after by Man. Utd, Roma, Inter, Sampdoria and PSG. The family will be making a trip in May to Spain to see if they can get any interest from clubs there. The entire family is prepared to relocate for Michael's sake so he can chase his dream of playing pro soccer.

I guess the biggest question that needs to be asked is why the hell is TFC not an option? Did he get scouted for the U12 program last year or the U13 this year? Is it that the parents don't think much of the TFCA program and turned them down? Or did TFC not see the talent he had?

...which country will he be playing for instead of Canada?

[TFC07]

Someone (a parent of TFCA kids?) posted on an old CSN blog (before it got deleted) mention this:

Let me chip in,as a parent there is no need for me to email you Duane.You did good job investigating senior academy,but there more to it than senior academy.

It is not roumor,it is the fact.

Since Mariner took over several talented kids from younger teams left. For most of senior academy it's to late to go anywhere at this point,they know that and they stick around hoping that TFCA will keep promise and get them some NCAA scholarships,I just hope boys know by now that NCAA will give them only 50% scholarship and other 50% has to be educational scholarship,or paid from their own pockets.

Some younger boys like Haynes went to Whitecaps.The younger teams are the ones that Rongen and Winter were putting emphasis U12-U15 and there are some very skilled boys that left,from possession it's switched to 442 hoofball,some soccer educated parents realize that and took their kids out.Just because it's TFC academy it does not mean they know what are they doing,at the end of the day TFC hired Ontario REP team coaches to do the job,those are the ones they like big hockey style boys over skilled,smart ones.

If TFC was serious about TFCA,they would hire European/S.American coaches,instead of OSA REP coaches who have their own agendas.Just look at U13-U14 coach Rick Titus ,he picked up kids for those teams only from North Miss and Brampton,U12 teams is U12 Brampton REP team,apparently no one east from 427 knows how to play soccer.

How good coaching staff is at TFCA was obvious to me and other parents when 11 years old kid was not picked up by TFCA,but was good enough for AS Roma,and is invited to visit Barcelona too,go figure. Not the roumor,the fact,check video. http://vimeo.com/41206214

Younger teams are not big enough,TFCA has U13,U14 teams roster down to 18 players,really at that age in a city i=of 5 million people they go with 18 players and only individual tryouts for the positions they need to fill up.U14 team need CB,little Messi walks in,and TFCA will say no thanks we are looking for CB,we have enough midfielders,plus you are to small.

There are better qualified and educated coaches in GTA than the ones TFCA has,most of them know how TFC FO run this club with whole circus around and don't want to go there.

There are few SAAC Academies they actually do better job than TFC,at least for now,parents that can afford it took their kids there.

The fact is,since Mariner took over many things have change and not for better that's for sure,from 1st team to U12 boys everyone is suffering because of his prehistoric soccer antics.

The fact that De Klark is not even allowed to come on TFCA grounds should be alarming for all of us,not just us parents, but TFC fans too.

Then a friend of Michael's family posted this:

I am a friend of Michael Thorntons parents & he is back from Roma. He is currently in the best program(their words!) for their boy in Canada which is TFCA. While i agree with you that their are some questionable coaches at TFCA(Rick Titus!!) , there are some great coaches that the kids look up to & learn alot off (Rongen - MLS ,US U20's, Dichio -EPL , Seria A). Both Academy teams went to the MLS Academy Cup & were finalists in both age groups too! I sense alot of jealousy & certain kids not making it, so parents are throwing bad rumors around too! Ive also watched all 3 Academy teams this year & they all seem to be playing attractive 4-3-3 Soccer still, so i dont know where this Mariner intereference comes from!(In fact , i bet he does not give a damn about whats going on in the Academy!). I just wish they could start a Girls side to their Academy for my 2 daughters. Remember!! Its Free too!

You can read more comments on here: http://www.canadiansoccernews.com/content.php?3789-Investigating-a-myth&page=2

Here's video of Michael on his Roma trial: http://vimeo.com/41206214

[youllneverwalkalone]

We're always going to lose elite talent to Europe. As does Argentina, Uruguay, and even Mexico. To me this fact is largely irrelevant to the whether the academies are succeeding or failing. At the end of the day, we need to see players like Gabe Gala or Joey Melo advance from CSL burnout, to serviceable MLS player. That shouldn't be too much to ask, though it seems to be taking a little longer than I thought to get there.

[Lord Bob]

May I just say, as an old Aviators fan, how nice it is to people ****ting all over Rick Titus again.

[maccaliam]

May I just say, as an old Aviators fan, how nice it is to people ****ting all over Rick Titus again.

Too funny. I literally almost spit a mouthful of water all over my screen when I read this.

[jpg75]

Someone (a parent of TFCA kids?) posted on an old CSN blog (before it got deleted) mention this:

Then a friend of Michael's family posted this:

You can read more comments on here: http://www.canadiansoccernews.com/content.php?3789-Investigating-a-myth&page=2

Here's video of Michael on his Roma trial: http://vimeo.com/41206214

Thanks. Sounds like the first poster was posting a bunch of sour grapes and the friend of Michael Thornton's parents dismissed most of what he/she was saying. I guess you can never tell though, there have been rumours of the incompetence of the TCFA since it's inception. I'd like to think that with Rongen at the helm that things would actually be smoother though....

"I am a friend of Michael Thorntons parents & he is back from Roma. He is currently in the best program(their words!) for their boy in Canada which is TFCA."

So does that mean that Thornton was with TFC's U12's last season? (and they are now presumably going overseas for a greater challenge?)

[weCAN]

Thanks. Sounds like the first poster was posting a bunch of sour grapes and the friend of Michael Thornton's parents dismissed most of what he/she was saying. I guess you can never tell though, there have been rumours of the incompetence of the TCFA since it's inception. I'd like to think that with Rongen at the helm that things would actually be smoother though....

"I am a friend of Michael Thorntons parents & he is back from Roma. He is currently in the best program(their words!) for their boy in Canada which is TFCA."

So does that mean that Thornton was with TFC's U12's last season? (and they are now presumably going overseas for a greater challenge?)

Quite honestly, one of the best things this family can do is ....

EDIT: I changed my mind. Not a good idea. I really have nothing to add.

[Oranje]

...which country will he be playing for instead of canada?

This X101

[finchster]

Cap him

[Lord Bob]

Call him up for the Gold Cup, start him against Martinique.

[Avram Grant]

...which country will he be playing for instead of Canada?

In virtually every single case (Jono DeGuzman would be the only exception I can think of), our "defectors" go to play for dad's country and it's hard not to think the decision has just as much to do with divided loyalties as it does with better soccer opportunities. I just watched the video of Michael Thorton's dad on the Toronto Star website, and in this case, dad's country is definitely Canada. The article even talks about the family having to learn a foreign language.

There's this term I learned after moving to Toronto six years ago: "manja caker." No disrespect to Paul Thorton, but that's what he is. I suppose this kid could sign with Bayern Munich or Inter and all of a sudden decide he's German or Italian, but something tells me that's unlikely. In this case I'm thinking we don't have to worry.

[Duane Rollins1555362254]

In virtually every single case (Jono DeGuzman would be the only exception I can think of), our "defectors" go to play for dad's country and it's hard not to think the decision has just as much to do with divided loyalties as it does with better soccer opportunities. I just watched the video of Michael Thorton's dad on the Toronto Star website, and in this case, dad's country is definitely Canada. The article even talks about the family having to learn a foreign language.

There's this term I learned after moving to Toronto six years ago: "manja caker." No disrespect to Paul Thorton, but that's what he is. I suppose this kid could sign with Bayern Munich or Inter and all of a sudden decide he's German or Italian, but something tells me that's unlikely. In this case I'm thinking we don't have to worry.

At the risk of being labelled an overly sensitive PC ****...you can't say "no offense to" and then call someone a "manja caker." It's an offensive term that speaks to the inherent belief by some Italian Canadians that their culture is superior to that of the "cake eaters" they chose to live beside here in Canada.

That belief is at the heart of what we are talking about here: That playing for/supporting Canada in soccer is beneath them.

Since the "manja cakers" are the dominate culture the term doesn't get labelled the way it really should -- it's a racial epithet.

[Greatest Cockney Rip Off]

At the risk of being labelled an overly sensitive PC ****...you can't say "no offense to" and then call someone a "manja caker." It's an offensive term that speaks to the inherent belief by some Italian Canadians that their culture is superior to that of the "cake eaters" they chose to live beside here in Canada.

That belief is at the heart of what we are talking about here: That playing for/supporting Canada in soccer is beneath them.

Since the "manja cakers" are the dominate culture the term doesn't get labelled the way it really should -- it's a racial epithet.

Manja Cake isn't an italian thing it is? I first heard the term when I worked as Swiss Chalet while at university in '99. And I heard it from the Portuguese who run and work at most Swiss Chalets that are downtown. Growing up in small town Canada I had never heard the term before and I had only been living in Toronto for about a year. I didn't take offence to it as it seemed more like a term of endearment as I always got on real well with my co-workers.

[Admin]

Manja Cake isn't an italian thing it is? I first heard the term when I worked as Swiss Chalet while at university in '99. And I heard it from the Portuguese who run and work at most Swiss Chalets that are downtown. Growing up in small town Canada I had never heard the term before and I had only been living in Toronto for about a year. I didn't take offence to it as it seemed more like a term of endearment as I always got on real well with my co-workers.

There was a guy who did one man traveling show telling stories with a harmonica. It was called that, and I remember him getting a lot flack for it. Not sure of the severity of the term so to speak.

[madmonte]

All I know is I dated a girl with a fully Italian grandmother once, and I was a skinny 18 year old, so she'd be all over me at dinner time. "MANJA MANJA MANJA!!!"

[narduch]

[Gian-Luca]

How the hell do these threads get off topic like this?

[Admin]

How the hell do these threads get off topic like this?

My goat got loose and ate all of my cheese.

[Avram Grant]

At the risk of being labelled an overly sensitive PC ****...you can't say "no offense to" and then call someone a "manja caker." It's an offensive term that speaks to the inherent belief by some Italian Canadians that their culture is superior to that of the "cake eaters" they chose to live beside here in Canada.

That belief is at the heart of what we are talking about here: That playing for/supporting Canada in soccer is beneath them.

Since the "manja cakers" are the dominate culture the term doesn't get labelled the way it really should -- it's a racial epithet.

You're right Duane. It is a racial epithet and the more I learned about this phrase the less thrilled I was with it. My fiancee's brother-in-law is Korean and he's always calling me a 'caker' in a teasing manner. I think it's been adopted by pretty much every immigrant group to describe "non-ethnic" white people and in that sense it's lost a bit of it's sting. And with everyone marrying everyone else in the GTA I hope it will eventually be remembered as nothing more than a cozy relic.

So, no. It was not the proper phrase to describe this situation. What I was getting at is that it's often much easier for someone - through things like knowing the language or having easy access to a passport - to go play for his/her parents' home country if they so desire. In this case, I don't think that would be an option for Michael Thornton.

[jpg75]

If this kid ends up in Italy or Spain i'd say there's about a 1% chance (or less) that he plays for another country. If he goes to England i think that rises about 10 or 20 fold. There's also the chance he pulls a Hoilett and decides to focus on his club career because we suck and don't have a real coach.