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Names for Ottawa supporters groups...


Trillium

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Comes up now.

Not that lumberjacks are unheard of in the area but your mascot/crest sure looks like an homage to the Timber's Army. ;)

I take that as a compliment :)

btw massive respect to the Lake Side Bouys. We have a Bytown Boy who recently moved to Victoria. I specifically told him to say hi and pass respect from at least one Bytown Boy. He better have done that ;)

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They're actually Ottawa-based Impact Ultras. Very nice people.

Rolls eyes at "Ottawa-based Impact Ultras"... they all from the Gatineau side? Only Impact jersey I've seen in town was from a kid shopping with his mom at Costco :D. I still tend to see more TFC jerseys than any other in Ottawa.

Back to the Fury, their has been a few mentions of "depending on how they market it"...

Yet, I havent seen much in terms of marketing. Occassionally, I get a call from OSL asking me to commit to Seasons Tickets (same guy all the time). Since I'm interested, I have a million questions about the team and his response has always been "sorry man, I dont know much about soccer. I'm more a CFL guy but I'm learning"...

I'm all for the success of the CFL in Ottawa, but seriously, the fact that they have OSL staff calling people that are from the CFL side of the business makes me worried.

Also, I was in Toronto in 2006 and notice TFC flags, 7 on 7 tournaments, and other MLS or TFC marketing gimmicks in preparation for 2007. I havent seen any of that in Ottawa. Elgin Sports, a local Ottawa-based sporting goods store that specializes in Soccer/Rugby already have Ottawa Red Black CFL swag (ie: Frisbees, T-shirts, no jerseys though), but nothing for the Fury, despite specializing in SOCCER! Its probably because nothing has been made available.

Ottawa is a small market, and enthusiastic as the "hardcore" fans will be, its a city that definetely needs to attract casuals if they want any form of atmosphere. Summer of 2013 is almost ending and theirs a chance the Fury will be on the field in 2014, yet, few people know anything about it.

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I get that the Fury isn't as engaged as an MLS team (everything is financially relative no?) but I also think that if supporters want success they have a role to play. Better than saying everything is going to go bad before the season starts.

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OK they're probably Gatineau-based. My bad...

Geez not sure where your getting that from....

I had a great conversation with them in person, and two things stuck out for me:

1) They are some of the nicest soccer fans I've ever met

2) at least one or two of them have Impact season tickets and regularly go. Personally, I'll make the connection that they are Montreal Ultras who hail from Ottawa. Or Gatineau...

What I love is the mutual respect we've established. So far, the supporters groups in Ottawa are very friendly and co-operative with each other. The nice thing about the Fury Ultras is they contribute a french element to the supporters culture. Ottawa has a significant french population, and they will be well-represented.

Also, I was in Toronto in 2006 and notice TFC flags, 7 on 7 tournaments, and other MLS or TFC marketing gimmicks in preparation for 2007. I havent seen any of that in Ottawa. Elgin Sports, a local Ottawa-based sporting goods store that specializes in Soccer/Rugby already have Ottawa Red Black CFL swag (ie: Frisbees, T-shirts, no jerseys though), but nothing for the Fury, despite specializing in SOCCER! Its probably because nothing has been made available.

Ottawa is a small market, and enthusiastic as the "hardcore" fans will be, its a city that definetely needs to attract casuals if they want any form of atmosphere. Summer of 2013 is almost ending and theirs a chance the Fury will be on the field in 2014, yet, few people know anything about it.

I agree with this, and its been repeatedly brought up with the club. Apparently the reasons apparel hasn't been brought out is legal based. Not sure about the details, but it stems from club/NASL vs franchise/CFL relationships. Whatever the reason, I do agree that they are behind in promoting the club. This has been brought up numerous times on this forum.

But, once the kit is selected, they should start being rolled out to retailers such as Elgin sports. News such as player signings should start rolling out soon as well. And, its great that we've already established some supporters culture to draw people in.

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2) at least one or two of them have Impact season tickets and regularly go. Personally, I'll make the connection that they are Montreal Ultras who hail from Ottawa. Or Gatineau...

That is a very big assumption to make on your part. You have no idea who is a member or even an associate of UM. Having season tickets in 132 or liking the ultras does not make someone a UM member or even an independent ultra, there is far more to it than that. And I hope if they are going to call themselves ultras they have some idea of the mentality and understanding of the ultra culture because if they are seriously considering the name Fury Ultras it does not seem like they do.

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That is a very big assumption to make on your part. You have no idea who is a member or even an associate of UM. Having season tickets in 132 or liking the ultras does not make someone a UM member or even an independent ultra, there is far more to it than that. And I hope if they are going to call themselves ultras they have some idea of the mentality and understanding of the ultra culture because if they are seriously considering the name Fury Ultras it does not seem like they do.

Tell'em Grizz... I really do not think anyone who is proposing to be Fury Ultras knows what its about... that said if someone does want to start a Ultra concept support group they might do well to visit with the Montreal Ultras and understand how to grow a group, the type of issues they will face etc.

The telling phrase was "they are very nice people" now that is the kiss of death, I know Ultras can be "nice" but its not the first criteria one associates with a supporters group... loyal, yes, resolute, yes, opinionated yes, nice .... not so much.

In any case its all moot, untill tickets are being sold, and designated areas are known, what ever supporters group, be it one or five emerges it wont start coming together till half way through a season if the love of the club is kicking in.

It would be great if all the former Fury youth players who are now in the prime age to be marketed to i.e. 16 to 28 would buy tickets in one block and become a core of supporters who have played for the club and give it some sense of history in terms of support, 100 of those types gathered in one group and having leadership to do TIFO's, have a CAPO stand, negogiate TAILGATE rights, learn about using FLARES, then you have something that will help the club and be organic and growing.

I do know there will be "Glens Row" probably quite small and exclusive, Grizzily is welcome to join <wink> and I am sure it will be great fun to play Montreal in Ottawa in the new Stadium, it could become a rivalary that would be stronger then any other in pro soccer in Canada.

You have to hope if the V Cup does not ensure a series of games home and away with each pro club in running for CCL that Joey Saputo will reach out to the Ottawa ownership and propose an annual cup game between the two clubs/two cities, or of course the supporters groups of both clubs could propose a cup game.

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Tell'em Grizz... I really do not think anyone who is proposing to be Fury Ultras knows what its about... that said if someone does want to start a Ultra concept support group they might do well to visit with the Montreal Ultras and understand how to grow a group, the type of issues they will face etc.

The telling phrase was "they are very nice people" now that is the kiss of death, I know Ultras can be "nice" but its not the first criteria one associates with a supporters group... loyal, yes, resolute, yes, opinionated yes, nice .... not so much.

In any case its all moot, untill tickets are being sold, and designated areas are known, what ever supporters group, be it one or five emerges it wont start coming together till half way through a season if the love of the club is kicking in.

It would be great if all the former Fury youth players who are now in the prime age to be marketed to i.e. 16 to 28 would buy tickets in one block and become a core of supporters who have played for the club and give it some sense of history in terms of support, 100 of those types gathered in one group and having leadership to do TIFO's, have a CAPO stand, negogiate TAILGATE rights, learn about using FLARES, then you have something that will help the club and be organic and growing.

I do know there will be "Glens Row" probably quite small and exclusive, Grizzily is welcome to join <wink> and I am sure it will be great fun to play Montreal in Ottawa in the new Stadium, it could become a rivalary that would be stronger then any other in pro soccer in Canada.

You have to hope if the V Cup does not ensure a series of games home and away with each pro club in running for CCL that Joey Saputo will reach out to the Ottawa ownership and propose an annual cup game between the two clubs/two cities, or of course the supporters groups of both clubs could propose a cup game.

Out of interest HOW do Impact Ultras differ from Italian Ultras?

Ultra not really been a British concept, unless you are referring to "Service Crews" and "Intercity Firms" which I'm sure your not, as they were basically hooligans with criminal mentalities .

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Out of interest HOW do Impact Ultras differ from Italian Ultras?

Ultra not really been a British concept, unless you are referring to "Service Crews" and "Intercity Firms" which I'm sure your not, as they were basically hooligans with criminal mentalities .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultras

Gives more background then I could, you have to look at each individual group to see what there form is, In Montreal they have been anti-racist, in support of other supporters groups against MLS corporate plans that destroy the game etc.

Montreal Ultras published Mission http://www.ultrasmontreal.com/node/3256

Perhaps what Ultras Montreal are not ... says its more clearly.

What we are not:

- A tool allowing you to express your frustration by destroying or vandalizing facilities Saputo Stadium.

- An excuse for you to insult racist, sexist, religious, social or another forum or where we are active character.

- A forum for you to spread your political views, whatever your allegiance in the stadium on our forum or in our other activities.

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultras

Gives more background then I could, you have to look at each individual group to see what there form is, In Montreal they have been anti-racist, in support of other supporters groups against MLS corporate plans that destroy the game etc.

Montreal Ultras published Mission http://www.ultrasmontreal.com/node/3256

Perhaps what Ultras Montreal are not ... says its more clearly.

What we are not:

- A tool allowing you to express your frustration by destroying or vandalizing facilities Saputo Stadium.

- An excuse for you to insult racist, sexist, religious, social or another forum or where we are active character.

- A forum for you to spread your political views, whatever your allegiance in the stadium on our forum or in our other activities.

Much appreciated!

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Alright, in fairness, I don't know too much about 'Ultra support concepts'. So, I'll contribute a couple of thoughts, then stop speaking on behalf of the Fury Ultras. I'm not part of their group, and, apart from meeting them, know very little about them. Its not fair for me to be speaking for them.

Tell'em Grizz... I really do not think anyone who is proposing to be Fury Ultras knows what its about... that said if someone does want to start a Ultra concept support group they might do well to visit with the Montreal Ultras and understand how to grow a group, the type of issues they will face etc.

The telling phrase was "they are very nice people" now that is the kiss of death, I know Ultras can be "nice" but its not the first criteria one associates with a supporters group... loyal, yes, resolute, yes, opinionated yes, nice .... not so much.

"They are nice people" is an initial thought I had after meeting a couple of them at a Fury social event. I have no clue what they will be like on match-days, but I do appreciate that at least a couple of them have expressed interest in being co-operative with other supporter clubs. At the end of the day, we'll all be going to support the Fury and, in many ways, be a voice for the general fan-base (as most supporters clubs are). We're much better off unified than split because of petty differences. The thing with Ottawa is, not many people are into supporting local football, and I'm getting worried thinking about how many people will be in the stadium on match-days. I don't know how many hard-cores we'll have (right now, its not many), but the few we have should be unified in my opinion.

In any case its all moot, untill tickets are being sold, and designated areas are known, what ever supporters group, be it one or five emerges it wont start coming together till half way through a season if the love of the club is kicking in.

It would be great if all the former Fury youth players who are now in the prime age to be marketed to i.e. 16 to 28 would buy tickets in one block and become a core of supporters who have played for the club and give it some sense of history in terms of support, 100 of those types gathered in one group and having leadership to do TIFO's, have a CAPO stand, negogiate TAILGATE rights, learn about using FLARES, then you have something that will help the club and be organic and growing.

We've been trying to work on this. I can only speak on behalf of the group I've been working with (Bytown Boys). We've been at Fury PDL and W-League games for two seasons, bringing noise and creating atmosphere as much as our small numbers can (our numbers were actually fine for PDL/W-league, but too small for NASL). Your point about Fury youth players is interesting, because we found that almost all the people who casually join us at PDL/W-league games are kids, many of whom are Fury youth players. We've collectively picked up the nickname 'the Bytown Boys Daycare' (Drop your kids and your husbands, and we'll take care of them for two hours :) ). We also call the Fury youth players our 'Bytown Boys Academy' because we're breeding them to be future supporters ;).

Currently, most of us are either TFC or Impact fans, but love for the club is kicking in for the few hard-cores there are at the moment.

I do know there will be "Glens Row" probably quite small and exclusive, Grizzily is welcome to join <wink> and I am sure it will be great fun to play Montreal in Ottawa in the new Stadium, it could become a rivalary that would be stronger then any other in pro soccer in Canada.

Great, enjoy! I sort of hope this is the last one though. We're starting to collect supporters groups...

You have to hope if the V Cup does not ensure a series of games home and away with each pro club in running for CCL that Joey Saputo will reach out to the Ottawa ownership and propose an annual cup game between the two clubs/two cities, or of course the supporters groups of both clubs could propose a cup game.

For what its worth, we've been trying to do this between the Fury and FC Gatineau. No luck so far.

That is a very big assumption to make on your part. You have no idea who is a member or even an associate of UM. Having season tickets in 132 or liking the ultras does not make someone a UM member or even an independent ultra, there is far more to it than that. And I hope if they are going to call themselves ultras they have some idea of the mentality and understanding of the ultra culture because if they are seriously considering the name Fury Ultras it does not seem like they do.

Fair enough, good point Grizzly. In general, if people travel for a team, I take it that they are part of the local supporters group. But, it appears Ultras mentality is different. I do like what we've done as Voyageurs, where anyone can show up to any Canada game and call themselves V's.

I suppose these Fury Ultras have opened a can of worms? Luckily, I've been Bytown Boys for a long time and have no intentions of going anywhere :)

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I think what is a 'real ultra' conversation is really counter productive and I'm not sure where the voice of authority comes from for those who think they have the concept defined. I don't know the people making the group but the speculative posturing of other people is just lame. Ultra culture is just the Italian/mediterranean/continental European word for 'supporter culture'. It means 90 minutes of unqualified support demonstrated through a wide variety of symbolic practices with a multiplicity of combinations. Impact Ultras don't own the term and are not the only example (therefore standard) of how to be an ultra in North America. This group can do whatever they want -flares or not, flags or not, songs or not, banners or not, tifo or not, etc.- and call themselves ultras if they want to.

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I think what is a 'real ultra' conversation is really counter productive and I'm not sure where the voice of authority comes from for those who think they have the concept defined. I don't know the people making the group but the speculative posturing of other people is just lame. Ultra culture is just the Italian/mediterranean/continental European word for 'supporter culture'. It means 90 minutes of unqualified support demonstrated through a wide variety of symbolic practices with a multiplicity of combinations. Impact Ultras don't own the term and are not the only example (therefore standard) of how to be an ultra in North America. This group can do whatever they want -flares or not, flags or not, songs or not, banners or not, tifo or not, etc.- and call themselves ultras if they want to.

So, a bit like England Cricket's Barmy Army, except without the staying power. They do it 9hrs/ five days straight, but break for Lunch and Tea (and possibly bad light).

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They probably are not going to call themselves "Ultras" nor wish to be associated with continental European football ultras but the they do reference a bunch of supporter culture practices that they feel appropriate to use.

To the actual point: there is some sort of posturing about being a 'true' ultra that makes no sense particularly because its based upon belittling a group because they may be referencing UM02, which is itself -under this criteria of the criticisms- little more than a reference to practices generated in Europe. Wait and see what the group does first? Or does being a true 'ultra' mean being condescending too?

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As long as they drum and sing their butts off for the Fury for 90+ minutes, who cares what they call themselves?

Btw, the core of the Bytown Boys and the Stony Monday Riot, I know these guys and they spent every dang beautiful summer Saturday evenings the last three years cheering on a level of footy far away from the Premier League football that 90% of my footy friends in the city adhere to. These guys are gonna BRING it next year.

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Btw, the core of the Bytown Boys and the Stony Monday Riot, I know these guys and they spent every dang beautiful summer Saturday evenings the last three years cheering on a level of footy far away from the Premier League football that 90% of my footy friends in the city adhere to. These guys are gonna BRING it next year.

+1

Bytown Boys and Stony Monday Riot know each other well, and there's plenty of respect between the groups. On match days, we sing with one voice.

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I think what is a 'real ultra' conversation is really counter productive and I'm not sure where the voice of authority comes from for those who think they have the concept defined. I don't know the people making the group but the speculative posturing of other people is just lame. Ultra culture is just the Italian/mediterranean/continental European word for 'supporter culture'. It means 90 minutes of unqualified support demonstrated through a wide variety of symbolic practices with a multiplicity of combinations. Impact Ultras don't own the term and are not the only example (therefore standard) of how to be an ultra in North America. This group can do whatever they want -flares or not, flags or not, songs or not, banners or not, tifo or not, etc.- and call themselves ultras if they want to.

They probably are not going to call themselves "Ultras" nor wish to be associated with continental European football ultras but the they do reference a bunch of supporter culture practices that they feel appropriate to use.

To the actual point: there is some sort of posturing about being a 'true' ultra that makes no sense particularly because its based upon belittling a group because they may be referencing UM02, which is itself -under this criteria of the criticisms- little more than a reference to practices generated in Europe. Wait and see what the group does first? Or does being a true 'ultra' mean being condescending too?

You have no clue what you are talking about. Ultra is not simply the word for supporter groups or supporter culture in Italy or continental Europe, it is a certain style of supporters group and culture. There are many supporter groups in Europe that are not ultra and do not call themselves that nor consider themselves to be ultras. There is a philosophy behind the ultra movement, there are ways you do and do not support the club, there are ways that you organize and there are ways you relate to club management. Above all there is a high level of participation required in both the group and activities supporting the club. Simply being in an ultra section and singing for 90 minutes does not make you an ultra, it makes you a supporter. The ultras are the ones who are there week in and week out, who are planning and painting the tifos, going on away trips, doing the pyro, participating in a variety of other activities of the group and who know and believe in the philosophies of the ultra movement.

There is nothing wrong with merely being a supporter and UM and any other ultra group needs supporters to fill the section and sing with us and participate as much as possible but doing that for 90 minutes does not make someone an ultra. I also have no problem with other type of supporters groups, being an ultra is not for everyone and we are all their to support the team in our own way. In Montreal we have a few groups other than UM the biggest of which is 127 who are not ultras and do not claim to be. They still contribute to the atmosphere in the stadium and there is a good relationship between us and them. The problem is that there are many groups especially in MLS that call themselves ultras because they think it is cool and will make them look hardcore but who have no understanding of what the ultras mentality is and how one supports the team as an ultra. Just like Columbus has a supporters group that calls themselves hooligans but could not be farther from being hooligans. I am not saying they should be real hooligans but if you are going to call yourself that then you should be one just like if you are going to call yourself ultra you should understand what that is and act accordingly. There are some groups in MLS that do understand what being an ultra is and are good ultra groups such as DC's District Ultras but unfortunately they are not the majority.

Now I can categorically say that these two guys mentioned by Red and White are not Montreal Ultras because they do not participate in any of our activities. They may be great guys and sing for 90 minutes at Impact games and like the ultras but they are not members of UM. They may or may not understand the ultra mentality but no ultra group is going to choose a ridiculous sounding name so if they were actually considering calling themselves the Fury Ultras then that suggests they do not know much about the ultra culture. I lived for many years in Ottawa and hope the team is a success and develops a great supporters culture hopefully with a real ultra group not an ultra group that is an embarrassment to the name. Because if you are going to be an ultra you should know something about what that means just like if you are going to post on a thread about what ultras are you should actually know something about them.

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Making symbolic claims for authenticity under the title of 'ultra' and symbolic displays to seek recognition for their support is a key component of ultra groups; that does tend towards a package of a variety of practices/activities. As you point out and demonstrate the need to be perceived/gain recognition as 'authentic' ultras does cause a form of conformity in the set of practices but the concept of ultras does not necessitate an exact combination. Making an effort to gain recognition as an ultra group inherently suggests one is participating in shaping the 'movement' by accepting and challenging the boundaries in which others use to seek/give recognition and authenticity. But particularly in organization there are important distinctions - in part influenced by underlying political ideologies - between groups, which would make drawing boundaries very difficult.

I'm merely pointing out that UM is not itself the definition of "ultra" culture and that if we go by your attitude Grizzly we could compare UM to continental European groups we could also exclude UM based on specific sets of practices of particular groups (political stances for example being a core component of the foundation of many ultra groups, which UM does not share), which I'm sure you'd be upset about. It is just not helpful to bring the posturing/claims for authenticity into this discussion and better to just wait and see what people decide to actually do.

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You have no clue what you are talking about. Ultra is not simply the word for supporter groups or supporter culture in Italy or continental Europe, it is a certain style of supporters group and culture. There are many supporter groups in Europe that are not ultra and do not call themselves that nor consider themselves to be ultras. There is a philosophy behind the ultra movement, there are ways you do and do not support the club, there are ways that you organize and there are ways you relate to club management. Above all there is a high level of participation required in both the group and activities supporting the club. Simply being in an ultra section and singing for 90 minutes does not make you an ultra, it makes you a supporter. The ultras are the ones who are there week in and week out, who are planning and painting the tifos, going on away trips, doing the pyro, participating in a variety of other activities of the group and who know and believe in the philosophies of the ultra movement.

I can only speak (somewhat) on the behalf of the Bytown Boys, but I can assure you that the Boys and the Riot will be doing nearly all of what you described above.

We may not be doing one of those above, we shall see, and any trips beyond ON/QC/NY would be a huge financial burden for the core of us who are in our 20's, but if we are hardcore enough to spend the best of our 20's coming out for 4th division footy, you can bet that we are going to come out hard next season. And yep, we already have our paint brushes and spray cans.

Now, for the Fury Ultras, perhaps a simple explanation is that they are based in Gatineau and not Montreal. That would go a long way of explaining everything we have observed from them. The distance between the two cities isn't great but it would certainly preclude them from participating in many of UM's activities. I'm just taking a guess, they can speak for themselves in the future. But yes, I would agree that it would be a bit of a shame if they claimed they were part of UM and they actually were not. We shall see. But hey, we are going to accept and stand with anybody who will support the Fury 90+ minutes week in, week out.

As for the definition of Ultras, I believe that both of you are correct. Elmateo is correct in the origin of the term, I believe, and Grizzly, you are right that the term has evolved into something beyond that. However, I think we can all agree that the majority of the Ultras in Europe have a negative view of thinking on many aspects of European society that no footy fans in North America should feel comfortable in adopting as well. Therefore, I would argue that none of the SGs in North America is a true Ultras group as it is thought of in Europe, but I would argue that this is in fact a very good thing. And judging from the mission statement of UM, I would believe that they would agree with that as well. Let's just consider ourselves to be hardcore supporters of football in North America.

Last couple points. Elmateo does know his footy culture, I can assure you, he spends the majority of his time talking about South American futbol, or actually going there for vacation or something. And, it's the Friday before the long weekend, so let's all just chill and enjoy ourselves :)

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