Yohan Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/opinion/2013/01/csa-cuts-ties-with-canadian-soccer-league.html Putting it here because this is pretty big deal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redcoatsforever Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 So...some kind of action on the KPMG recommendations or will this wind up meaning less certainty going forward? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegan Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 It needs to be done if they are going to go this CHL route.. which is AWESOME news btw. But I'm wondering why they wouldn't wait until the end of this season so that we don't go a year without a legitimate league for these players? Guessing they are just trying to run away from the match fixing scandal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Will repeat my reply from elsewhere. Good news. Having what essentially has always been a local Toronto league with only token and often second-rate content elsewhere pretending to be a national pro league was never going to be the answer long term. The emergence of the new league in Quebec points to the way ahead. Each province finding its own answers suitable to its own circumstances with the CSA's role probably being confined to providing some sort of end of season tournament to determine a national champion. I wouldn't worry about elite players in Toronto finding a place to play too much. Leagues like the OSL can always pick up the slack where the open age format is concerned. Will be really positive if there is a stronger focus on a U-23 development format than there is now. Canada needs something equivalent to what the combination of NCAA scholarships and playing in PDL does for American players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmonte Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Will repeat my reply from elsewhere. Good news. Having what essentially has always been a local Toronto league with only token and often second-rate content elsewhere pretending to be a national pro league was never going to be the answer long term. The emergence of the new league in Quebec points to the way ahead. Each province finding its own answers suitable to its own circumstances with the CSA's role probably being confined to providing some sort of end of season tournament to determine a national champion. I wouldn't worry about elite players in Toronto finding a place to play too much. Leagues like the OSL can always pick up the slack where the open age format is concerned. Will be really positive if there is a stronger focus on a U-23 development format than there is now. Canada needs something equivalent to what the combination of NCAA scholarships and playing in PDL does for American players. Yeah I mean that's what really has to happen. It's just not feasible to try and travel around like MLS players on a pro-am budget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fort York Redcoat1555362293 Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 It's incredible how much negative response I'm reading to this news elsewhere. I don't want to ignore the short-term issues it presents to present players for the CSL but this is a positive action towards greater relevance for this games structure nationwide IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 More from the Ottawa Citizen: http://www.ottawacitizen.com/sports/Black+mark+match+fixing+scandal+leaves+Canadian+soccer+dealing+with+fallout/7907345/story.html If I told you that, at a FIFA-UEFA-Interpol conference on the subject in Rome earlier this month, Interpol’s top cop Ronald Noble used the Canadian Soccer League as a warning to leagues around the world of how even leagues almost no one has ever heard of can get caught up in the practice, you might be stunned. The Canadian example was repeated at another FIFA conference in New York. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ag futbol Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 I’m cautious about this whole development. If the CSA can successfully pull off the alternative, then fantastic, they did the right thing. However, destruction is the easy part of this process and it wasn’t the only option. The association easily could have taken the view that it was going to withhold sanctioning from select clubs within the CSL rather than throw them all out or any number of other half measures. So that being said, I hope they are very prepared to start building. Saying the CSL was “national” is a joke, but if you compare its scope to the OHL, it’s not that bad, especially when you consider demographic differences and the more regional concentration of soccer interest. BBTB is right that the non-GTA entries were generally weak. They should aim to have more integration with amateur clubs and that would provide the start of a pathway to professionalism, which right now is hard for young players to figure out. In terms of regional setups, Quebec, BC, and Ontario are ok as stand-alone entities. Other areas should consider some level of coordination, or joining one of the other larger setups above. As long as we skim the top level of talent and don’t dilute the system I’m ok with whatever. That’s one of the biggest problems with the game at the “elite” level in this country. It includes far too many people / clubs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juby Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 To be completly honest, I wonder how a semi pro league expected to do anything about being targeted by a betting ring that is measured in nine figures? What exactly could they have done? Avoided publicity (no website?)? 'I dream of Genie' money until their as rich as the match fixers? Called the police (It didn't really seem to do much for Ben)? It sounds to me like were blaming the exploited and not the exploiters? And BBTB, give it rest, there are literally pages of you saying the CSL is doomed simply because it is a domestic league so seeing you force an in to dominate both CSL threads by saying we just need different domestic leagues is just a maddeningly disingenious (no one wants to hear you cover your tracks anymore then they want to hear me moan for half the posts, let's let everyone else (non-super-biased)dominate these threads http://www.cansoc.org/showthread.php?45949-CSA-cuts-sanction-of-CSL&p=476918#post476918 *walking away*). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fort York Redcoat1555362293 Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 To be completly honest, how the hell is a semi pro league expected to do anything about being targeted by a betting ring that is measured in nine figures? What exactly could they have done? Avoided publicity (no website?)? 'I dream of Genie' money until their as rich as the match fixers? Called the police (It didn't really seem to do much for Ben)? It sounds to me like were blaming the exploited and not the exploiters? And BBTB, give it rest, there are literally pages of you saying the CSL is doomed simply because it is a domestic league so seeing you force an in to dominate both CSL threads by saying we just need different domestic leagues is just a maddeningly disingenious (no one wants to hear you cover your tracks anymore then they want to hear me moan for half the posts). I don't think anyone who'd been following events in world soccer for a time would think the CSA or CSL could stamp out match fixing without a lot of cooperation beetween the 2 parties plus the authorities and i think that that is getting off topic now from the new issue. CSA gave the CSL an ultamatum to report a certain standard of records that were well within their ability and would help with transparency. We all know that transparency goes a long way in combating dirty dealings. Well most of the teams complied and a couple did not. That puts the the governing body and the league in a standoff situation. Their is culpablilty on both sides here. The governing body has taken the stance that it's only a league they can sanction and not a team by team basis which puts the onus on the league and the non-compliant teams. This denial that came from the CSL that any change in sanctioning will occur undermines the CSA and its now left to our governing body to answer a public (well a relatively small number of Canadian footy fans) that wants to know who gets the fallout- The CSA from a lack of action against non-compliance or the CSL for letting their league lose sanction for a few alleged bad apples. Every day of no news on this subject now means this standoff will get uglier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juby Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 sorry, to double post right after I backed away but I just read this: http://canadiansoccerleague.com/newsnet/templates/?a=688&z=5 and the plot thickens dun dun dun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ag futbol Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 Yeah, as Juby kind of alludes to, the main issue for the CSL is the integrity of their games. They don't have the resources to control global crime syndicates are doing. The police are having a hard enough problem with that as it is. As for the implications of gambling, separating suckers from their money is a time honored tradition. You have to question the betting houses that are underwriting these wagers and their connections to organized crime. I know $100M isn't much in terms of what's bet on sports globally, but it should still be enough to raise alarm bells. If you're concerned about the integrity of CSL games, don't facilitate gambling on them, problem solved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 Here is an old Canadian Soccer News story from Ben Rycroft which provides some of the background to what is happening right now: http://www.canadiansoccernews.com/content.php?3791-CSA-travels-to-Zurich-to-meet-on-CSL-match-fixing ...Couple that with the reporting the CBC has already done and there is little question that the CSA is now faced with some difficult decisions. Their options are they can do nothing – or rather move so slowly in accordance with FIFA – and risk letting this issue slip to the back burner where it has already gone unchecked for three years. Or they can take immediate action – essentially charging ahead without FIFA’s lead – and risk losing favour with the governing body as they push forward with plans for hosting World Cup's in 2015 and beyond. For the CSA and the CSL the answer won't be a black and white one but this country's governing body needs to find a way to move out of the murky gray area this whole episode has left them in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 Big things appear to be unfolding on this issue over in Europe today: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21319807 A Champions League tie played in England is one of 380 matches across Europe investigators say was fixed. European police did not reveal the identity of the match they believe was corrupt in England. But Europol did say that they had uncovered an organised crime syndicate based in Asia that was co-ordinating the operation. Some 425 match officials, club officials, players and criminals are suspected of being involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narduch Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 If you're concerned about the integrity of CSL games, don't facilitate gambling on them, problem solved. Is the league the one facilitating the gambling though? The gambling companies don't need permision from the CSL to post odds for its games. These large gambling companies take bets on every immaginable league in the world. Even though I already new it was possible, I still found it amazing to see that I could bet on the CSL when I was in Italy last summer. Most Canadians think the league is a joke, but thousands of miles away its simply another league to gamble on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fort York Redcoat1555362293 Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 http://www.canadiansoccernews.com/content.php?4166-CSN-responds-to-erroneous-use-of-the-word-erroneous So this article moves the situation past CSL vs CSA on a sanction standoff. CSA moving on to make a new league. CSL moving to get a sanction from the OSA instead. This makes me think that now the CSA talks about structure of the provincial leagues playing each other at the end of the year or throughout the season or something to promote a true national team. Meanwhile, it will be the unappealing job of the province to deem what level of transparency is required of the CSL teams to receive sanction. I'm hoping the OSA makes the CSL teams meet the same levels the CSA were trying to make them meet otherwise the public won't be able to shake the corrupt feel this has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 CSA moving on to make a new league..... Best if people read the CSN thing for themselves but this is the relevant part on that, which suggests the CSA are actually getting out of directly sanctioning D3 leagues by handing it over completely to the provincial associations: http://www.canadiansoccernews.com/content.php?4166-CSN-responds-to-erroneous-use-of-the-word-erroneous ...Still? Well, technically, the CSL hasn’t even applied for sanctioning in 2013. You are sanctioned on a year-by-year basis. Forgetting for a second that the CSA has informed you in person and in writing that it will no longer be sanctioning professional leagues in Canada – including your own (actually you’re the only league they sanction) – the CSL would have to apply for sanctioning again for it to be considered still sanctioned. But perhaps, we’re talking in semantics here. I only wanted to point out that it would be erroneous of you to suggest you are still sanctioned... ...Strange how a change in the division 2 structure would affect a division 3 league, no? But you are correct. Well, sort of. As I understand it, the CSA board has already adopted recommendations within the report. Of which, includes, giving them the justification to no longer sanction leagues and passing that responsibility off to the provinces - if they so want it. And I just checked again, yep, the CSL is still (sorry, was still) the only league sanctioned by the CSA... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ag futbol Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 Is the league the one facilitating the gambling though? The gambling companies don't need permission from the CSL to post odds for its games. These large gambling companies take bets on every immaginable league in the world. Even though I already new it was possible, I still found it amazing to see that I could bet on the CSL when I was in Italy last summer. Most Canadians think the league is a joke, but thousands of miles away its simply another league to gamble on. Oh no, not at all. I'm saying more from the perspective of the gambling companies and the authorities. There's a lot of regulatory power not being exercised here that could cut this one off at the pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 It seems to me the CSA has made a bad decision using the new Easton Report as justification. Not that I will shed any tears over the CSL losing it's status but I think that abdicating responsibility to the Provinces renders all the so-called reforms the CSA has implemented over the last two years useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ag futbol Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 ^ Can you clear something up for me... is that the actual report, or simply a document meant for public consumption? I assume something much more detailed and all-encompassing was provided to the CSA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 Is the league the one facilitating the gambling though? The gambling companies don't need permision from the CSL to post odds for its games. These large gambling companies take bets on every immaginable league in the world. Even though I already new it was possible, I still found it amazing to see that I could bet on the CSL when I was in Italy last summer. Most Canadians think the league is a joke, but thousands of miles away its simply another league to gamble on. I find it hard to believe there was not some involvement by CSL league management at some point whether or not the current management was involved. The CSL business model never made much sense and always seemed a bit shady. If I remember correctly the league also has a history of being involved with some shady individuals. I haven't followed closely recently about what type of franchise regulations and fees they have had in the past year or two but it was not very long ago that the chairman of the league was coming on here and trying to defend the astounding expansion fees they were charging and the myriad other strange things in the league. There may well be some or even most of the teams that are run cleanly but there has been so much involving this league over the years that just did not make sense that it is hard for me to believe that only a few players or a clubs were involved or that organized crime was preying on the league in ways that it did not know about or have any control over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 ^ Can you clear something up for me... is that the actual report, or simply a document meant for public consumption? I assume something much more detailed and all-encompassing was provided to the CSA. Sweet mother of... do I have to hold your hand?!?! If you go to the CSA site and read the article you will see that was was released today was a summary for public consumption. I think it was a waste of money but no, a 32 page booklet that is half photos of national team players is not what they paid all that money for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 In case people missed it elsewhere: http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2013/02/04/canadian_soccer_association_division_2_report/ Montagliani said the CSL would operate under the auspices of the Ontario Soccer Association, and said he's already met with CSL and OSA officials to facilitate the league's sanctioning under the OSA. Confirmation that the CSL is no longer being sanctioned by the CSA. I don't think the OSA has to take orders from the CSA on this so I wouldn't read too much into the use of the word "facilitate". It will be interesting to see what unfolds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ag futbol Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 Sweet mother of... do I have to hold your hand?!?! If you go to the CSA site and read the article you will see that was was released today was a summary for public consumption. I think it was a waste of money but no, a 32 page booklet that is half photos of national team players is not what they paid all that money for. lol, thank you I got there eventually. From what BBTB just posted, it looks like a lot of responsibility will be falling on the provincial associations. I hope they are ready to dig in and do the work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 lol, thank you I got there eventually. Sorry if that came off harshly BTW. I have no faith in the ability of the Provincial associations to do anything positive for the professional game in this country. They have little to no interest in doing it and most of their funding comes from recreational players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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