Idea: CIS/CCAA combine

[A_Gagne]

Had an idea that I thought I'd throw out on the forum for discussion:

CIS/CCAA Combine... Why isn't there one? Why doesn't the CIS/CCAA/CSA organize one?

The basics of this idea:

The MLS doesn't allow CIS players to enter into the draft, but as FC Edmonton has demonstrated the idea that there are not at least a handfull of CIS/CCAA players of professional caliber is nonsense. Currently the fact that there isn't a strait-forward pathway available to these players represents a substantial missed opportunity for Canadian soccer. Therefore, why doesn't the CSA, the CCAA and the CIS get together and organize a yearly combine to connect CIS/CCAA players looking to go pro with teams, scouts and agents interested in giving them a shot.

Invited teams could include the Canadian pro-teams, as well as any interested USL-Pro team, as I am under the impression that USL-Pro treats Canadians and Americans both as "domestic". Additionally, scouts and agents with connections in Europe (or elsewhere) could also be invited to help connect players to opportunities abroad.

Expansion of our player pool is critical, and the Canadian player pool is so small that even if only 5-10 players per year were successful at landing a contract, over time this would result in a significant increase. Would that ever directly affect the top end of our talent pool? Probably not, but at the same time, it wouldn't take much time before it doubled or even tripled our D2 player pool, which would represent a substantial increase in the number of Canadians making their living in soccer, and would go a very long way towards increasing our domestic "soccer IQ". The greatest benefit of increasing our D2 player pool now would be creating a much deeper reservoir of domestic technical expertis for the future.

Would expending scare resources on creating a professional pathway for CIS and CCAA players help us create next DeRosario? Probably not, but it might help us create the next CANADIAN Rennie or Herdman.

[ThiKu]

An excellent idea.

Why not put together a proper proposal. Location, costs, etc. Can you think of possible sponsor ideas? Online streaming package for any combine matches. ie, Adidas sponsors MLS combine and the teams are named after Adidas products. Do the same in Canada but with.... roots!?

Can USL Pro teams afford to attend the MLS combine as well as a Canada one?

[A_Gagne]

An excellent idea.

Why not put together a proper proposal. Location, costs, etc. Can you think of possible sponsor ideas? Online streaming package for any combine matches. ie, Adidas sponsors MLS combine and the teams are named after Adidas products. Do the same in Canada but with.... roots!?

Can USL Pro teams afford to attend the MLS combine as well as a Canada one?

Haha... yeah, official proposals will have to be done by someone else, as I pretty much live in a hospital 24-7 (medical resident).

I think the most obvious place to host would be Toronto (has the facilities and central/easiest place for air travel).

I'm sure if there was a will a title sponsor like that could be found... Umbro maybe? And I think CIS already streams games occasionally, so yes that probably wouldn't be much of a problem either.

[VPjr]

organizing a combine is a good idea but the budget for flying scouts/coaches in and putting them up in hotels would have to be significant (especially in year 1) because teams at the d2 or d3 level (or even clubs from countries like Finland) wouldn't necessarily be prepared to risk precious budget dollars on scouting an event in Canada. The organizers would have to foot a pretty hefty bill to get the right people to attend.

[Macksam]

Maybe MLS wouldn't be interested in one, but the Canadian MLS clubs should be. They should help with the costs of organizing one for the three of them.

[A_Gagne]

organizing a combine is a good idea but the budget for flying scouts/coaches in and putting them up in hotels would have to be significant (especially in year 1) because teams at the d2 or d3 level (or even clubs from countries like Finland) wouldn't necessarily be prepared to risk precious budget dollars on scouting an event in Canada. The organizers would have to foot a pretty hefty bill to get the right people to attend.

Agreed, but not an insurmountable obstacle. I'm sure if there was a will there could be a way. IMO the greatest obstacle would be that the CIS/CCAA probably don't see it as part of their mandate to provide professional opportunities to their players. Which is exactly where the CSA, and specifically their new Technical Director, have a role to play in bringing the various stake-holders together and convincing them that there is an opportunity for mutual benefits to be realized. Probably the CIS/CCAA have the ability to generate the needed dollars through a combination of sponsorship, in kind support and transferring costs to the programs (e.g. small tax on all programs, and/or mandating that programs pay for players travel costs, etc.), but they are likely not about to embark on such a venture unless they are convinced to do so/supported by the CSA.

[Free kick]

Maybe MLS wouldn't be interested in .

Yes. That would be a problem. And most likely, IS a problem. I dont follow sometimes suggestions such as: 1) requesting that CIS players be included in the draft 2) Things like scouting combines for CIS players, Or even 3) things like D3 leagues.

The reasons, which seem obvious to me, is that the quality is simply not there. If the quality was there, points one and two above would take care of itself. By osmosis, all three of the points above would take of themselves directly or indirectly. No decree is needed for those things to happen. Plus, the best quality available is: going to US colleges, going overseas, or getting scooped up by club academies. The CIS is getting the pick of the litter. That might be a generous description.

IMO, Too many solutions thrown about on this forum focus on more quantity (eg.: more pro clubs in MLS, more NASL clubs, a national league, A D3 league, etc). But its more quality (not quantity) that we need. Or, just quality period. And quality is something that is identified and honed at earlier ages. Right now, quality is not there (ie.: MLS clubs can even get to the floor level of the Cnd quota) so there no point in in worrying about quantity, until that part is rectified.

[A_Gagne]

Yes. That would be a problem. And most likely, IS a problem. I dont follow sometimes suggestions such as: 1) requesting that CIS players be included in the draft 2) Things like scouting combines for CIS players, Or even 3) things like D3 leagues.

The reasons, which seem obvious to me, is that the quality is simply not there. If the quality was there, points one and two above would take care of itself. By osmosis, all three of the points above would take of themselves directly or indirectly. No decree is needed for those things to happen. Plus, the best quality available is: going to US colleges, going overseas, or getting scooped up by club academies. The CIS is getting the pick of the litter. That might be a generous description.

IMO, Too many solutions thrown about on this forum focus on more quantity (eg.: more pro clubs in MLS, more NASL clubs, a national league, A D3 league, etc). But its more quality (not quantity) that we need. Or, just quality period. And quality is something that is identified and honed at earlier ages. Right now, quality is not there (ie.: MLS clubs can even get to the floor level of the Cnd quota) so there no point in in worrying about quantity, until that part is rectified.

Last two paragraphs of my initial post:

Expansion of our player pool is critical, and the Canadian player pool is so small that even if only 5-10 players per year were successful at landing a contract, over time this would result in a significant increase. Would that ever directly affect the top end of our talent pool? Probably not, but at the same time, it wouldn't take much time before it doubled or even tripled our D2 player pool, which would represent a substantial increase in the number of Canadians making their living in soccer, and would go a very long way towards increasing our domestic "soccer IQ". The greatest benefit of increasing our D2 player pool now would be creating a much deeper reservoir of domestic technical expertis for the future.

Would expending scare resources on creating a professional pathway for CIS and CCAA players help us create next DeRosario? Probably not, but it might help us create the next CANADIAN Rennie or Herdman.

[VPjr]

Maybe MLS wouldn't be interested in one, but the Canadian MLS clubs should be. They should help with the costs of organizing one for the three of them.

if the canadian clubs were interested, they would have done this already. the idea has been discussed.

[Guest GoGreen]

Yes. That would be a problem. And most likely, IS a problem. I dont follow sometimes suggestions such as: 1) requesting that CIS players be included in the draft 2) Things like scouting combines for CIS players, Or even 3) things like D3 leagues.

The reasons, which seem obvious to me, is that the quality is simply not there. If the quality was there, points one and two above would take care of itself. By osmosis, all three of the points above would take of themselves directly or indirectly. No decree is needed for those things to happen. Plus, the best quality available is: going to US colleges, going overseas, or getting scooped up by club academies. The CIS is getting the pick of the litter. That might be a generous description.

IMO, Too many solutions thrown about on this forum focus on more quantity (eg.: more pro clubs in MLS, more NASL clubs, a national league, A D3 league, etc). But its more quality (not quantity) that we need. Or, just quality period. And quality is something that is identified and honed at earlier ages. Right now, quality is not there (ie.: MLS clubs can even get to the floor level of the Cnd quota) so there no point in in worrying about quantity, until that part is rectified.

Not to say I do not agree with a lot of your points. But, in all seriousness we do not know if the quality is there or if it can be formed. We do not have a system in place to scout CIS players or better yet NCAA Canadians outside of the 3-4 every year that make it into the Combine.

The mentality that the quality is not there leads to Canadian soccer not progressing, we dismiss it as not being worth it.

I don't think looking for players to directly help the National Team is necessarily the goal for Canadian soccer development, rather building the opportunity for more Canadian players to go professional and providing a route for those that otherwise wouldn't indirectly helps the National Team. The benefits are a deeper player pool. Competition breeds success. These benefits will NOT be immediate and if that's our mentality going into it then nothing will be done.

I don't see why if the MLS has a combine for NCAA players why the CCAA/CIS shouldn't as well. Quality or not. You build it they will come. The combine develops a reputation over time and more scouts from abroad may show up on their own.

Maybe a trial run of a CCAA/CIS combine for 2013 to evaluate the skill level on hand rather than dismissing the quality level is necessary, wouldn't hurt. If at the very least I would expect the Canadian MLS & NASL clubs to send a rep. Consider the potential for the CIS to grow as well, if Canadians knew they had an opportunity to be seen by MLS scouts, the CIS would improve.

If even one player moves on to the professional level as a result, would it not be worth it?