The Beh Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 And I don't mean just Hart - the president of the CSA, vice president and all the top brass must go. We need to start from scratch and 4 years may just be enough time to get our act together. But this is as much our fault as fans, for not demanding better in the last two decades, as it is anyone else's. 2014 is gone and we have to start looking forward to 2018, not in 2 years, but starting tomrrow. No more of this complacency that has become the cornerstone of Canada's performance in sporting events. We are the absolute worst sporting nation in the G7 and G8 and the bottom dwellers of the G20 in soccer -thankfully we have India and Indonesia to keep us company at the bottom! The time for positivity is now past. The fans gave their all this time, as we have been doing for years. We get the worst return for our tax dollars in the industrialized world. Why we can only afford a $350k coach is beyond me. Why we can't afford to spend more money on our sports development is just pathetic. No more excuses - we shouldn't be losing to countries that can't even afford to have a decent national stadium, let alone some grass fields for their youth to play on. We deserve better and if we're going to let the CSA go back to business as usual tomorrow and say "this is the best we have, eh" then we can't blame anyone for this loss or the ****ty performance of the last decade, but ourselves. Let's organize a freakin' march on the CSA headquarters, call up the media and let's stir up some $hit. See how quickly things will start to change. Afterall, this is still a democratic country and we do have the right to freedom of assembly, do we not?! If you feel that we need change, if you want change, then stop being the victims and be the instigators. You only deserve what you're willing to fight for. Hundered or thousands have changed the course of democracies in the world - all we need is a better soccer association that can deliver what we're paying for. It's not much to ask for, is it?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canada1 Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 And I don't mean just Hart - the president of the CSA, vice president and all the top brass must go. We need to start from scratch and 4 years may just be enough time to get our act together. But this is as much our fault as fans, for not demanding better in the last two decades, as it is anyone else's. 2014 is gone and we have to start looking forward to 2018, not in 2 years, but starting tomrrow. No more of this complacency that has become the cornerstone of Canada's performance in sporting events. We are the absolute worst sporting nation in the G7 and G8 and the bottom dwellers of the G20 in soccer -thankfully we have India and Indonesia to keep us company at the bottom! The time for positivity is now past. The fans gave their all this time, as we have been doing for years. We get the worst return for our tax dollars in the industrialized world. Why we can only afford a $350k coach is beyond me. Why we can't afford to spend more money on our sports development is just pathetic. No more excuses - we shouldn't be losing to countries that can't even afford to have a decent national stadium, let alone some grass fields for their youth to play on. We deserve better and if we're going to let the CSA go back to business as usual tomorrow and say "this is the best we have, eh" then we can't blame anyone for this loss or the ****ty performance of the last decade, but ourselves. Let's organize a freakin' march on the CSA headquarters, call up the media and let's stir up some $hit. See how quickly things will start to change. Afterall, this is still a democratic country and we do have the right to freedom of assembly, do we not?! If you feel that we need change, if you want change, then stop being the victims and be the instigators. You only deserve what you're willing to fight for. Hundered or thousands have changed the course of democracies in the world - all we need is a better soccer association that can deliver what we're paying for. It's not much to ask for, is it?! Hey whats with all the negativity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFC07 Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 And I don't mean just Hart - the president of the CSA, vice president and all the top brass must go. We need to start from scratch and 4 years may just be enough time to get our act together. But this is as much our fault as fans, for not demanding better in the last two decades, as it is anyone else's. 2014 is gone and we have to start looking forward to 2018, not in 2 years, but starting tomrrow. No more of this complacency that has become the cornerstone of Canada's performance in sporting events. We are the absolute worst sporting nation in the G7 and G8 and the bottom dwellers of the G20 in soccer -thankfully we have India and Indonesia to keep us company at the bottom! The time for positivity is now past. The fans gave their all this time, as we have been doing for years. We get the worst return for our tax dollars in the industrialized world. Why we can only afford a $350k coach is beyond me. Why we can't afford to spend more money on our sports development is just pathetic. No more excuses - we shouldn't be losing to countries that can't even afford to have a decent national stadium, let alone some grass fields for their youth to play on. We deserve better and if we're going to let the CSA go back to business as usual tomorrow and say "this is the best we have, eh" then we can't blame anyone for this loss or the ****ty performance of the last decade, but ourselves. Let's organize a freakin' march on the CSA headquarters, call up the media and let's stir up some $hit. See how quickly things will start to change. Afterall, this is still a democratic country and we do have the right to freedom of assembly, do we not?! If you feel that we need change, if you want change, then stop being the victims and be the instigators. You only deserve what you're willing to fight for. Hundered or thousands have changed the course of democracies in the world - all we need is a better soccer association that can deliver what we're paying for. It's not much to ask for, is it?! Well we got a protest happening this Saturday after TFC game. lol Even though it's TFC related protest, we can manage include some anti-CSA elements to it as well. lol But I agree that heads must roll, it's time to get a quality (not just good) manager. But the good news is our youth players have been impressive and hopefully they (along with new manager) bring success to our men's program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob.notenboom Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Hey whats with all the negativity. That is the first thing to make me laugh (or even smile) since the start of the game. Thanks for that. I need it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beh Posted October 17, 2012 Author Share Posted October 17, 2012 Hey whats with all the negativity. Touche my good man. But there's no negativity in demanding or taking action. I'm not saying we're losers and this is the best we can or should do. Quite the contrary, I'm saying we're better than this, we deserve better, we should demand better and we will be better. Where's the nagtivity in that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canada1 Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Touche my good man. But there's no negativity in demanding or taking action. I'm not saying we're losers and this is the best we can or should do. Quite the contrary, I'm saying we're better than this, we deserve better, we should demand better and we will be better. Where's the nagtivity in that? Don't worry I'm just poking a bit of fun at you. I am as pissed off or more than yourself. At this time I am trying to keep my patience and really find out what happened in Hondurus. This match was so out of the norm that I feel something happened that we do not know about yet. Hopefully we can find out more once they return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nolbertos Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I've been calling change, since 2002. How much more can we keep saying, give it time or bext 4 years and counting. I've been on this board for thr last 12 years and see the same ****ty results every WCQ and this match pretty much made my case an argument on why things need to be radically improved. Blow up thr CSA, Provincial Associations and just clean house. Enough is enough and this 8-1 score is finally the final nail to the coffin for drastic change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ag futbol Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I've been calling change, since 2002. How much more can we keep saying, give it time or bext 4 years and counting. I've been on this board for thr last 12 years and see the same ****ty results every WCQ and this match pretty much made my case an argument on why things need to be radically improved. Blow up thr CSA, Provincial Associations and just clean house. Enough is enough and this 8-1 score is finally the final nail to the coffin for drastic change. Agreed. We shouldn't be comfortable with not qualifying for the WC. This **** has gone on long enough with the CSA's long term plans and random bull****. When is this all going to come together??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMo Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Anyone receiving salary from or related to the CMNT should lose their job. If they had any shame the CSA executive would step down after such a shocking embarrassment, but rest assured they won't. Sad thing is its the same story for Canadian sports all across the board. I'm a big basketball fan and our basketball program has gone down the drain because of the same complacency, lack of accountability, and straight up nepotism at the top. In basketball there's even more internationally recognized Canadian talent yet we can't put together a competitive national team. Problem is the sporting strategy at the top and how this country even views sports. Seeing Australia's reaction to sporting disappointments like their Olympic medal haul( worlds ahead of ours) clearly explains how differences in national psyche contribute to overall success. This will be met on deaf ears though sadly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EDM Rover Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Agreed. We shouldn't be comfortable with not qualifying for the WC. This **** has gone on long enough with the CSA's long term plans and random bull****. When is this all going to come together??? Not qualifying for the WC is one thing - time after time not making it to the Hex? Give me a break. Something is obviously broken... but our dithering bureaucracy of a governing body will sort itself out. I wonder where exactly we are right now on the "Wellness to World Cup" path? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beh Posted October 17, 2012 Author Share Posted October 17, 2012 I'm glad I'm not the only one with those sentiments because a concerted effort needs to take place in our soccer/football program and I think it's time that the fans are seriously involved in the process. We're the only industrialized nation without a proper domestic league. We had a chance before the 1994 World Cup with the tournament being in N. America, to develop our program like the Americans did. We missed that chance and perhaps at the time, the participation rate wasn't there to justify it. Two decades have gone by now and while soccer has become the most popular sport in Canada, one of the oldest footballing nations in the world and one of the oldest members of FIFA still does not have a proper domestic league or football program. What exactly are we waiting for?! BigMo, I'm glad you drew the parallels with Australia... Here's a nation that is similar in every sense to us from size to history to GDP and look at the difference in our performance in the Olympics or the World Cup. They have continuously worked on their soccer program since the early 90's, brought in some big name coaches and barely missed out on the world cup 3 times in a row ('94, '98, '02), made it to the last two world cups, undeservingly lost to the eventual winners in '06, missed out on the 2nd round in '02 on goal difference, and most likely will make it to the 2014 tournament (currently in a qualifying spot with half the games in the round having been played). They even switched associations in the process to improve their odds and insure that they play more games and don't have to depend on a one game continental play-off to qualify. Interestingly, we played them in the '94 campaign and the teams were very evenly matched (we lost on penalties after being tied on aggregate at the conclusion of the 2nd game in the play-off series). Since then, their soccer has been improving continuously while we have moved in the exact opposite direction. I don't know much about Montagliani, other than the fact that he hasn't done anything he said he would do when he was elected in May and proclaimed a historical day for Canadian soccer and a new beginning. He said his focus was to increase fan awareness, but the reality is that the marketing campaign for the men's team has been just as dismal as the past 20 years, with such things as lack of basic information on CSA's site on WCQ game times, false information about attendance of a training session for group ticket holders, misinformation about group names being displayed on the screen in the stadium, etc. etc. And any slight gain in the fan base was completely wiped out by last night's humiliating defeat - I wouldn't even be surprised if we end up years behind where we started, as far as the fans are concerned, when all the dust settles. I also know that his resume is not visible to the majority of Canadian soccer fans on LinkedIn and that the presidency of the CSA is not even listed as his first job!!! Why should the CSA presidency be of secondary importance in a country with over 2 million registered participants is beyond me. Why he hasn't taken his "vision" to parliament and demanded more funding as a matter of national pride, I don't know. It's also beyond me why he's listed as being in Vancouver, a 5 hour flight from the CSA headquarters, or how someone with a simple BA (not even a professional degree like MBA, LLB, B.Eng., B.Comm etc.) would be considered qualified for the position. In a democratic country where the system is obviously broken how much fan input went into his selection or the selection of the rest of the board? If we continue on the same culture of having non-qualified people being elected from the same pool of people who have not made any significant change in the sport, how can we ever expect anything more than complacency and mediocrity? TFC07, so good to see that you guys are taking some action at least. I think the media needs to be seriously involved and any type of demand protest needs to be well coordinated and receive real coverage before we start seeing any major change in the way CSA operates and is held accountable. I seriously hope that more discussions on this site will channel fan's passion into a constructive discussion on what needs to change and how those changes need to be implemented. Every journey must start somewhere and what better place to start that journey than on a great site of passionate fans, called Voyageurs?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Hombre Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Just curious, but what exactly did the CSA do wrong this qualifying cycle? This seems like a knee-jerk response. There are a couple negatives, like not being adequately prepared for the fans in Panama, but if you've followed this team for any length of time you should know that things were far and away better this time around: - Good accomodations for the players. - First class airfare transportation. - A significant amount of preparation games (even before the previous round of qualifying). - Regardless of what you think of his tactical aptitude, Hart was a coach that every player liked and was more than willing to play for. - Coordinating with the Voyageurs to actually get some atmosphere into these games. In my opinion, the CSA did a lot of things right. They aren't the ones that couldn't defend on the field or the ones that squandered chances. This failure has got to be chalked up to the players on the field. I think they were given almost everything they could have asked for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rightback Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 $350k coach?!?!? Please tell me that's over a six year contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMo Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Just curious, but what exactly did the CSA do wrong this qualifying cycle? This seems like a knee-jerk response. There are a couple negatives, like not being adequately prepared for the fans in Panama, but if you've followed this team for any length of time you should know that things were far and away better this time around: - Good accomodations for the players. - First class airfare transportation. - A significant amount of preparation games (even before the previous round of qualifying). - Regardless of what you think of his tactical aptitude, Hart was a coach that every player liked and was more than willing to play for. - Coordinating with the Voyageurs to actually get some atmosphere into these games. In my opinion, the CSA did a lot of things right. They aren't the ones that couldn't defend on the field or the ones that squandered chances. This failure has got to be chalked up to the players on the field. I think they were given almost everything they could have asked for. I don't believe the CSA is only a hospitality agency. They're responsible for the development and quality of the product on the pitch period. If it fails, they should take responsibility. This goes far beyond accommodating player's needs but the entire footballing system in Canada. It is inexcusably poor for a country with our resources and someone must take responsibility for such a huge step backwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Just curious, but what exactly did the CSA do wrong this qualifying cycle? This seems like a knee-jerk response. There are a couple negatives, like not being adequately prepared for the fans in Panama, but if you've followed this team for any length of time you should know that things were far and away better this time around: - Good accomodations for the players. - First class airfare transportation. - A significant amount of preparation games (even before the previous round of qualifying). - Regardless of what you think of his tactical aptitude, Hart was a coach that every player liked and was more than willing to play for. - Coordinating with the Voyageurs to actually get some atmosphere into these games. In my opinion, the CSA did a lot of things right. They aren't the ones that couldn't defend on the field or the ones that squandered chances. This failure has got to be chalked up to the players on the field. I think they were given almost everything they could have asked for. This is true and we have to bear in mind that CSA board reform took place during this qualifying cycle. Things have improved. It is up to the leadership to show that this new board make-up was a change for the better and that the national teams are the flagship of the organization. They have to do better. The clock started ticking yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alberta white Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Canada lost to a country that if gives Humanitarian Aid to. Sorry scratch that. Canada was MULLERED by a county without comprehensive Sanitation. Look at this http://www.ifitweremyhome.com/compare/CA/HN IT A SCANDAL! but whats most depressing is that a Country in the G8 cannot even establish up a Team capable of holding its on in the worlds top 32 of the one sport that is truely global. Personally not hosting the game in the elementary school is where it starts to go wrong as you loose a whole raft of Players, who just cant afford to the pay to play system. Still, When you turn a simple low cost sport into a middle class pastime, what do you expect? Honestly the CSA set up makes the British Lawn Tennis Association look cutting edge. And don't quote the USA consistent apperences in the World Cup Final. They have a population of nearly 400 million but the best they have ever done is Quarterfinals. Uraguay have won it twice. Population anyone? thats rignt 6 bloody million! Stop blaming Hockey, stop fleecing parents, set up a decent elementary school structure and sort it out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redhat Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I don't believe the CSA is only a hospitality agency. They're responsible for the development and quality of the product on the pitch period. If it fails, they should take responsibility. This goes far beyond accommodating player's needs but the entire footballing system in Canada. It is inexcusably poor for a country with our resources and someone must take responsibility for such a huge step backwards. Generally you're correct, but the CSA has vastly improved over the years. It tried to accommodate the clubs, the provinces, the players, and the fans. Hard to believe, but in the past the CSA used to think the Voyageurs are just wackos who follow their USL club teams. Not any more, I assure you. But you also have to recognize that the CSA has to split its budget for its Men's AND Women's teams, at ALL levels. Our CONCACAF bretheren (other than the USA) do NOT or barely fund their women's teams. The loss yesterday was tough because the Hart AND the players failed. Rebuilding the CMNT will be easier than restructuring the whole Canadian/CSA system (because that would take years, decades, or is realistically impossible). And it starts with hiring a respected, experienced coach outside of the current setup, and plan for the next four years for the next WCQ round for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Just for Califax: (The following opinion was emailed to 103 Canadian newspapers and every provincial soccer association on October 15, 2012, a full 24-hours before our 8-1 humiliation. I thought it would be more effective to address the national media while its attention was still focused on Canadian soccer, rather than to wait till after I talked to Stephen Hart.) As Canadian soccer enthusiasts have to resign themselves once again to watching yet another FIFA World Cup Final tournament that will not feature their national team, is it not high time we honestly examine why Canada has just failed to qualify for the world’s greatest sporting spectacle for a twelfth time? Only Guatemala, the Netherlands Antilles and Suriname have amassed greater records of CONCACAF futility. For those of us who are old enough to remember our one and only appearance at a World Cup Final, 1986 seems like a lifetime ago. Even the images of our last participation in the CONCACAF Hex back in 1997 are already starting to fade from our collective memories. Since then, we have also had to endure a twelve-year drought where our national team failed to win a single CONCACAF semi-final qualifying match on home soil. With a track-record as poor as ours, when do we finally reach the point where we say; “Enough is enough! These repeated failures are no longer acceptable! Something has to change!” Every country that partakes in FIFA’s quadrennial competition, has at one time or another encountered a difficult draw, been subjected to some refereeing injustices, or just had to suffer some down-right bad luck Naturally, Canada has had its fair share of these misfortunes to contend with, however, they are not the real causes of our ongoing disappointments, but only the excuses that are used to cover up our true shortcomings. Time and again, the fingers of blame are also pointed at the individuals hired by the CSA to coach our national team. This seems equally lame, as all who have held that position over the past 15 years were only able to progress to the same qualifying stage of the World Cup competition. Therefore, based on the consistency of these performances, it is doubtful that any of the world’s most respected coaches could have achieved better results if had they been presented with the same players, conditions and circumstances. By process of elimination that leaves only the quality of our national team players to look at. Most of these players left Canada at a young age to pursue professional careers with lower-echelon clubs in foreign leagues. Although a few manage to earn a respectable living, thus far none of them have developed into the type of player that winds up playing for a preeminent club, and with the exception of the 1986 campaign they have repeatedly proven to be uncompetitive when representing Canada in World Cup qualifying matches. Interestingly enough, the overwhelming majority of Canada’s aspiring soccer players compete in a plethora of regional leagues that are spread across this vast country. These leagues represent the breadbasket of our domestic talent pool. The most successful teams participating in these district leagues end up contesting each other for provincial cup honours, with the winners advancing to vie for the Challenge Cup, emblematic of the Canadian amateur soccer championship. The following 12 clubs qualified for the 2011 Challenge Cup competition: ICST Pegasus – Vancouver Metro Soccer League Edmonton Green & Gold – Alberta Major Soccer League Huskie United Soccer Academy Alumni – Saskatchewan Premier Soccer League Winnipeg Juventus – Manitoba Major Soccer League Toronto Celtic FC – Toronto Services Soccer League Griffons du CS Mont-Royal Outremont – la Ligue de Soccer Elite du Quebec Fredericton Picaroons Reds – New Brunswick Premier Soccer League Soccer Edge – Prince Edward Island Premier League Suburban FC – Nova Scotia Soccer League Holy Cross Kirby Group – Newfoundland Challenge Cup League Yukon Selects SC – Yukon Soccer Association Yellowknife FC – Northwest Territories Soccer Association Of all the players that competed in the 2011 Canadian Challenge Cup championship, how many were selected to play for the national team that was recently eliminated from World Cup contention? Conversely, how many players on the current national roster have ever won a Canadian Challenge Cup championship? After doing the math, several questions immediately come to mind. Why does the Canadian soccer structure that is currently in place fail to produce the caliber of players that are worthy of being selected to represent Canada at the international level? Are we physically inferior to other nationalities? Are there economic insecurities that dissuade the CSA from establishing a domestic structure that will produce players of an international caliber? Or does the CSA lack the creative vision necessary to design an economically viable structure that is specifically tailored to further develop the best players from our domestic talent pool in a competitive setting? Up to the present, the CSA has shown it is either unable or unwilling to address the dire state in which Canadian soccer has been stuck in for so many years. Even if we concede that soccer will probably no time soon rival the popularity that hockey enjoys in this country, the CSA should at least be able to attract a similar level of interest and support that the sport of curling has managed to earn in Canada. However, the recently concluded 100th anniversary tournament of the Canadian Challenge Cup in Winnipeg received none of the 66 hours of nationally televised coverage that TSN devoted to the 2012 Tim Horton’s Brier earlier this year in Saskatoon. As a result, the attendance and gate receipt figures of the CSA’s cup competition were no where near those that the Brier competition brought in and it is therefore hardly surprising that the financial rewards for curlers by far outweighed the paltry honorariums that the soccer players received. This once again raises a series of questions. Why does the CSA continue to insist on organizing an amateur Canadian cup championship? In today’s world this is certainly not necessary from an Olympic eligibility point of view. Why are these players not allowed to receive any financial incentives? Why does the CSA continue to discriminate between amateur and professional clubs by organizing two separate Canadian cup championships? The direction of Canadian soccer is not going to turn any corners with Victor Montagliani at the helm of the CSA. We will not “see thee rise” with World Cup preparations that consist of a hastily arranged match against Trinidad & Tobago that was not televised and did not generate any gate receipts, while at the same time scarce financial resources were wasted by the CSA on a full-page Globe & Mail advertisement for the Women’s World Cup three-years in advance of that event. We will not “see thee rise” with governance that advocates amateur policies, while the rest of the world has adopted a professional approach. If Mr. Montagliani really had a vision to change the plight of Canadian soccer, he would have surely started to reveal and implement those plans during his first six months in office. If this is not the case, then what is he waiting for? The fact that there is absolutely no evidence to support that the CSA has acknowledged the need to either replace or rebuild the ineffective structure that is currently in place, clearly corroborates the fact that Mr. Montagliani does not have a clue on how to solve our predicament. Canadian soccer needs visionary leadership that is capable of creating and implementing a competitive environment for the elite players from our national talent pool, where they can obtain a maximum amount of playing time at the highest level of competition that is currently available in this country, and which provides them with a domestic pathway that leads directly to the national team. In addition, sufficient financial incentives have to be offered in order to make it worthwhile for aspiring players to make the personal sacrifices that are necessary once they commit to pursuing a career in soccer. Such a structure would simultaneously create a number of high-level coaching positions and increase overall public interest, which would subsequently make soccer a far more attractive proposition for investors and advertisers to consider. This kind of vision can only be provided by an individual who has a thorough understanding of the unique challenges that confront the Canadian soccer landscape and who has developed a keen appreciation for the mechanisms that have and have not worked previously in Canada. Although my passion for soccer was ignited almost half a century ago in the Netherlands, I have been blessed to have lived the past 43 years in Canada. My curiosity to learn how the game evolved in this country has resulted in dedicating a large portion of the last 15 years to a fact-finding mission that has allowed me to acquire an intimate knowledge of our past and to develop the necessary expertise to lead us to a brighter future. If given the privilege to serve in this capacity, on my first day in office I will present and begin to implement a five-year plan that will take our national team to the next level, a berth in the 2017 CONCACAF Hex, which is where Canada will earn the right to take part in the 2018 World Cup Final, in Russia. In order to realize this objective and to play a key role in helping achieve that success, the CSA’s Board of Directors will need to take action today, rather than wait until three years from now when it will be too late to implement a new structure and give it the necessary time to develop the players that will qualify Canada for the 2018 World Cup Final. Robert Janning is the author of a recently published book entitled: “Westcoast Reign – the British Columbia Soccer Championships, 1892-1905.” BallBoy Press (2012) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alberta white Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Anyone receiving salary from or related to the CMNT should lose their job. If they had any shame the CSA executive would step down after such a shocking embarrassment, but rest assured they won't. Sad thing is its the same story for Canadian sports all across the board. I'm a big basketball fan and our basketball program has gone down the drain because of the same complacency, lack of accountability, and straight up nepotism at the top. In basketball there's even more internationally recognized Canadian talent yet we can't put together a competitive national team. Problem is the sporting strategy at the top and how this country even views sports. Seeing Australia's reaction to sporting disappointments like their Olympic medal haul( worlds ahead of ours) clearly explains how differences in national psyche contribute to overall success. This will be met on deaf ears though sadly. @ the Beh and BigMo you noted the Australian experience. Well I lived there in South Australia for a while so know a little about their set up. the Wiki a league link is here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyundai_A-League Now something to note is that the Aussie number 20 million about half the size of Canada but maintain that League on a national Level over a similar land mas and have done so for 8 years. Adelaide front up for SA in the A league but What lies beneath however is a state wide League system of CLUBS. not teams but Clubs, with Club houses and Bars andd social functions and all these other things that make these part of the community Play in mertiticious Leagues. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_football_in_South_Australia Note that these teams are "profesional". There is not a lot of money there. Basic expenses etc, but they do existing in a format thats recognisable. the national set up is like this. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soccer_in_Australia I can't find a similar page for any of the Canadian Provinces. But heres the kicker; your family may join a club and pay the subscriptions for the year, but as a kid you'll get the chance to join said club as player without having to spend a load of cash first before you pull your boots on. You may pay some subs on a weekly basis, but these tend to be peppercorn. The same applies with Aussie rules clubs , Rugby clubs and cricket clubs. ALL of which have significant Professional Leagues Not too sure on swimming clubs but whey what are the chances they do something similar eh? Plain truth, Canada just make thing too damn complicated and too expensive to compete in anything other than Hockey (which ain't cheap either). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ag futbol Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 The loss yesterday was tough because the Hart AND the players failed. Rebuilding the CMNT will be easier than restructuring the whole Canadian/CSA system (because that would take years, decades, or is realistically impossible). And it starts with hiring a respected, experienced coach outside of the current setup, and plan for the next four years for the next WCQ round for us. Generally I agree.... but it really is time to start putting the screws into the grass roots about putting a greater emphasis on skill development. The way players are developed and trained is incredibly non-standardized. That has to change and it needs to be taken seriously. Not filling the TD spot for years on end tells me we still don't have our priorities straight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beh Posted October 17, 2012 Author Share Posted October 17, 2012 Just curious, but what exactly did the CSA do wrong this qualifying cycle? This seems like a knee-jerk response. There are a couple negatives, like not being adequately prepared for the fans in Panama, but if you've followed this team for any length of time you should know that things were far and away better this time around: - Good accomodations for the players. - First class airfare transportation. - A significant amount of preparation games (even before the previous round of qualifying). - Regardless of what you think of his tactical aptitude, Hart was a coach that every player liked and was more than willing to play for. - Coordinating with the Voyageurs to actually get some atmosphere into these games. In my opinion, the CSA did a lot of things right. They aren't the ones that couldn't defend on the field or the ones that squandered chances. This failure has got to be chalked up to the players on the field. I think they were given almost everything they could have asked for. I wish this was a knee-jerk reaction, but I have been following the CMNT since 1993 and over almost two decades I have seen very little improvement or promotion of the game of football - let alone a "constant one" - as CSA's primary objective in the by-laws states. Yes, things were slightly better this time, not by far and by no stretch of the imagination anywhere near where they need to be. Australians have less than 1/2 the amount of registered players in Canada and they've packed over 90,000 people into the stadium for their national team games while we still struggle to fill a tiny stadium with 20,000 fans. The fact that we still don't have a proper domestic league is not a failure of the fans or players, it's the failure of the CSA. You are correct that this particular loss could be blamed on the players, but the lack of a winning mentality and a proper soccer program and culture, where the fan and player bases exist, can not be blamed on the players. Surely, you must agree that someone with coaching experience at the Halifax King of Donair or St. Mary's Huskies women's team becoming the coach of a national Canadian team at any level and eventually the CNMT is not exactly an achievement for the CSA. In fact, since 1990, we have not had a single manager for the CMNT who had any previous coaching experience at the international level and with the exception of Osieck, not a single person with any coaching experience of a real professional team! How's that developing and promoting soccer in Canada? We can not continue to look at ourselves in a vaccum from the rest of the world ad be the only insudtrialized nation that doesn't have a proper domestic league or even working toward one. And I hate to draw parallels, but again we can not continue to blow our horn without any comparissons with other national associations. Since 1990 for example, the Australians have had the likes of Terry Venables, Guus Hidink, and Pim Verbeek as their managers while the CSA is picking Halifax King of Donair's coach and then we're blaming the performance on the players! Like I said in the other thread, we need to change this culture of letting people rise to the top from the ranks of the same broken system. Anyone who feels any humility about last night's performance MUST accept that we need a fundamental change to the system, not just changing players or even bringing in a world class coach and expecting them to fix the whole system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beh Posted October 17, 2012 Author Share Posted October 17, 2012 Just for Califax: Great post. +1 to Alberta White. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Hombre Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I don't believe the CSA is only a hospitality agency. They're responsible for the development and quality of the product on the pitch period. If it fails, they should take responsibility. This goes far beyond accommodating player's needs but the entire footballing system in Canada. It is inexcusably poor for a country with our resources and someone must take responsibility for such a huge step backwards. This is where you're wrong. They are responsible for gathering the highest quality players they can (which I think they did) and making sure that everything off the pitch is as conducive as possible for winning (which I think they also did, aside from a few gaffes). Once the players hit the pitch, the CSA no longer has any control over them. It must be up to the players who are professionals to put in the best effort that they are capable of (which I don't think they did yesterday). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gator Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 This is where you're wrong. They are responsible for gathering the highest quality players they can (which I think they did) and making sure that everything off the pitch is as conducive as possible for winning (which I think they also did, aside from a few gaffes). Once the players hit the pitch, the CSA no longer has any control over them. It must be up to the players who are professionals to put in the best effort that they are capable of (which I don't think they did yesterday). The CSA has improved, as you say there were mistakes but it wasn't like in the past and hopefully they will continue to improve! In retrospect I think their biggest flaw was not having a better coach in place, I like Hart but it is painfully obvious he took us as far as he could but was found out! I'm not saying the players weren't to blame, the ones he chose to participate in this debacle were for the most part awful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Hombre Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I wish this was a knee-jerk reaction, but I have been following the CMNT since 1993 and over almost two decades I have seen very little improvement or promotion of the game of football - let alone a "constant one" - as CSA's primary objective in the by-laws states. Yes, things were slightly better this time, not by far and by no stretch of the imagination anywhere near where they need to be. Australians have less than 1/2 the amount of registered players in Canada and they've packed over 90,000 people into the stadium for their national team games while we still struggle to fill a tiny stadium with 20,000 fans. The fact that we still don't have a proper domestic league is not a failure of the fans or players, it's the failure of the CSA. This makes no sense and is lacking logic. I don't care what happened prior to 2010. All I care about is this qualifying cycle. How did the CSA do? By your own admission you say things were better this time. If that's the case, why is it a good idea to get rid of those people that helped facilitate change? If things have been so bad for the last 20 years, then you're more than likely going to take a step back if anything. Things were far and away better this time around and I've been following the team for quite awhile myself. Why don't we build on that rather than tearing it down? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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