What's with all the negativity?!

[The Beh]

I honestly can't believe the level of negativity I'm seeing on this board about the team, particularly in the Canada-Cuba game thread. I understand that the fans in every country can be critical of their team at times but a "true fan" IMHO is one who can at least maintain some level of objectivity in their expectations from his/her team.

Surely, expecting a team that finished last at this stage in the last two world qualifying campaings, to come out all of a sudden and win every single game, convert every scoring chance and finish on top of the group or with still one game to go, is a little unrealistic. Here are some facts from previous campaigns we should all consider in evaluating our performance so far:

* 2002 WCQ: We finished 2nd last in the group and scored ONLY ONE GOAL in the entire 6 game campaign!

* 2006 WCQ: We finished last in the group and scored less goals in all of our 3 home games combined, than we did last night!

* 2010 WCQ: We finished last in the group, didn't win a single game, got scored on 5 times at home and didn't manage as many points as we got last night in the entire 6 game series!

This time around and at this stage of World Cup Qualifying:

* We've had our first away win since 2004!

* We've completely outplayed our opponents at home with 3 straight shut-outs in the 2nd Round - the 1st time since 1998 WCQ!

* Scored more than 2 goals in a game for the 1st time since 1996 and won with a 3 goal margin for THE 1ST TIME EVER!!!

Needless to say, I'm completely shocked by the reactions I'm seeing. We played an excellent game and achieved an excellent result. The atmosphere in the stadium was AMAZING and the boys put their heart and soul into this game and kept the fans pumped up for the entire 90 minutes. In fact, as someone who has attended 90%+ of Canada's games in Toronto since 1993, I had never seen so many fans being so pleased and impressed with the performance of the team or being so pumped up after the game.

Yes, the guys missed a lot of chances last night and it would have been great if we had won the game against Honduras in Toronto in which case we would have qualified last night, with still one game to go. And it would have been great if the Panamanians didn't take out Dero and Hart didn't make a tactical blunder and play for a tie in Panama. But those are just unrealistic expectations from a non world-class coach and a team and a country that's finally starting to find its rythm again after more than a decade.

So, looking forward, not only do we have our first chance since 1998 to qualify for the final round with one game to go, but our destiny is completely in our own hands and does not depend on what happens in the other match. As long as we manage a point in the game againt Honduras we are through. And we are not the only team that needs to achieve some sort of result to make it to the HEX - all three teams are in the same shoes, with the most pressure on Honduras, since they need all 3 points from their game (whereas Panama and Canada need only one to be guaranteed qualification).

Honduras has not played that well at home - they lost their game to Panama and although created a lot of chances against Cuba, they only managed one goal (you think we can't convert scoring chances!). Their left defence is very weak and they'll be under a tremendous amount of pressure to score - more often than not, that wears out the psyche of the team playing in front of home audience if they can't score early. Let's also not forget that we had them pinned in their own half for more than 80% of the game in Toronto and completely controlled the game, even though we didn't score.

I'm not saying that this is going to be an easy game for Canada, but if we want realistic chances of advancing to the World Cup, not just to the next round, we MUST be able to do better than 3 points out of 3 away games (in '98, we had 7 points out of 3 away games and still got killed in the HEX, losing all of our away games). If we want to play with the big boys, we need to be able to get results in big games and we don't need an extraordinary result here, just a tie would do.

Having said that, we can not afford to play for the tie in this game like we did against Panama. We need to play a very calculated but offencive game and increase the pressure on them by taking the game to Honduras from the kick-off. This 4-5-1 crap formation that we tried in the Panama game isn't going to cut it. I'm not saying we should keep playing the 4-3-3 or 3-4-3, but no decent team in the world plays a defencive 4-5-1 and if we want to be a decent team, we have to start playing like one. The worst thing we can do in this game is to take the pressure off their defence by having only one forward and telling our misdfield to sit back. A defencive 3-5-2 or 4-4-2 is the minimum offencive posture that would be acceptable for this game. We don't need to commit a lot of numbers to any particular attack if we're going for calculated crosses by rushing their left defence or taking long distance shots.

Our chances of advancing to the HEX are much more realistic to me at this point than they were before this round started. I hope the boys play with the same level of commitment and passion that they played last night and they know that 10's of thousands of fans are standing behind them at home and cheering them on.

Go Canada... Let's see thee rise!

[Soccerpro]

Did you watch Canada in Panama without Occean and DeRo?

What exactly will be different this time in Honduras? Who will hold the ball up? Who will score?

[ensco]

You are confusing objectivity with negativity. The Cubans are the patsies of the group. We should have beaten Honduras, but you could just as easily point out we were lucky to take 3 points against Panama at BMO.

None of it matters now.

[canucklefan]

I think the negativity is an indicator that people are afraid of not making the Hex. Regardless of the negativity, everyone here wishes the best for MNT.

[The Beh]

Did you watch Canada in Panama without Occean and DeRo?

What exactly will be different this time in Honduras? Who will hold the ball up? Who will score?

I did and I wish I could say we didn't play like crap or that we have a ton of options for the next game to hold the ball up, but unfortunately, I don't!

What I do know, is that we don't need to hold the ball up to get a tie - we just need to keep posession, play a calculated game in midfield and have options in offence. We don't need to score a ton of goals (or even score at all) to get a tie - we just need to be able to keep the pressure on their defence to keep them on their back foot. We do need to play a very hard and physical game and shut them down in midfield by challenging hard for every ball, like we were doing last night. I don't like to promote playing dirty, but we can't be push overs either.

What's different in this game is that the boys will be expecting the worst from Honduran fans before the game, after what happened in Panama. When it happens to you once, you're more mentally prepared next time and won't be shell shocked. Also, Dero's loss was very unexpected and I'm sure it was a big blow to the whole team and affected everyone's psyche. Everyone seems to have adjusted to that loss well, if the game last night was any indication. I'm sure Occean's loss will be dealt with the same way. At the end of the day, other players need to be able to step up to the plate and fill these gaps - and they did that beautifully last night. I see no reason, we can't do the same thing in Honduras.

Another problem, as I mentioned before, is that when you play a 4-5-1 and the whole game plan is around a single striker that gets injured in the 1st few minutes of the game, your whole plan goes out the door. That was the tactical blunder that Hart made and if he plays a 4-5-1 again, I may be inclined to be as pessimistic as many others here, but I don't think he will make the same mistake twice.

[Soccerpro]

I did and I wish I could say we didn't play like crap or that we have a ton of options for the next game to hold the ball up, but unfortunately, I don't!

What I do know, is that we don't need to hold the ball up to get a tie - we just need to keep posession, play a calculated game in midfield and have options in offence. We don't need to score a ton of goals (or even score at all) to get a tie - we just need to be able to keep the pressure on their defence to keep them on their back foot. We do need to play a very hard and physical game and shut them down in midfield by challenging hard for every ball, like we were doing last night. I don't like to promote playing dirty, but we can't be push overs either.

What's different in this game is that the boys will be expecting the worst from Honduran fans before the game, after what happened in Panama. When it happens to you once, you're more mentally prepared next time and won't be shell shocked. Also, Dero's loss was very unexpected and I'm sure it was a big blow to the whole team and affected everyone's psyche. Everyone seems to have adjusted to that loss well, if the game last night was any indication. I'm sure Occean's loss will be dealt with the same way. At the end of the day, other players need to be able to step up to the plate and fill these gaps - and they did that beautifully last night. I see no reason, we can't do the same thing in Honduras.

Another problem, as I mentioned before, is that when you play a 4-5-1 and the whole game plan is around a single striker that gets injured in the 1st few minutes of the game, your whole plan goes out the door. That was the tactical blunder that Hart made and if he plays a 4-5-1 again, I may be inclined to be as pessimistic as many others here, but I don't think he will make the same mistake twice.

Just needing a tie is nice and all, but when the opposition scores that first goal, all bets are off.

[jpg75]

Lowering your expectations because of past underperformance is not what being a supporter is about.

[Spungi]

I think the thing a lot of people are forgetting is that in the Panama game we did not have Johnson with us.

His tenacity and work-rate will help a lot in Honduras.

[tmcmurph]

It comes down to one game and ALL the pressure is on our opponent. They are at home, they need the win, the profile of soccer is way higher in their country than here. Honduras has not scored a goal against us, panama in 3 tries. They are struggling. So we need to find a way to get it done without OO & Dero but we know that going in not 10 minutes into the game.

I don't think we are underdogs at all. We need to defend like crazy and hit them on the counter attack. Play a very disciplined game and don't give them free kicks around the box.

As to the negativity I too don't understand it. Compared to the last several outings we are way ahead and clawing points any way we can. This is a huge improvement over past WCQ cycles and I am very happy. I will be exstatic when we get to the HEX and leave the diving wankers in our dust.

Allez Les Rouges!!!

[theaub]

Do we get a medal for being most improved or something?

Going out with 10 points is the exact same as going out with 0 points. This qualification process is a complete failure if we don't get to the hex and everyone is worried because we've put ourselves in the position where its 90 minutes away from happening against the team that seems to knock us out of every competition.

That being said, I think we can get what we need down there Tuesday. If I could pick one place in Central America to play (that isn't Belize or Nicaragua) I'd probably pick Honduras. Our last three times down there we've been tied or better at the hour mark and I would be thrilled to get to that point and take our chances from there.

[Obinna]

I was not happy with the preformance last night. We often ran out of ideas on how to break Cuba down and this was disapointing for me.

Too many times we depend on crossing the ball in the air from the flank, rather than short interplay in the final 3rd. De Guzman and Occean combined well in the first half on one occasion, and Hutchinson has enough class to make intelligent passes near goal, but overall we do not have enough of this.

It is not bad to send balls into the box from out wide, but always seem to be in the air in hope that Occean can latch on. After Occean was sent off, I noticed the service into the box (from Jazic) was alot more calculated because we had no big target man.

At any rate, I know we have improved and I am not expecting us to finish every chance or anything, I just want to see us mix it up in the final 3rd. Also, too many times we win posession and send the ball back to reset. This gives the defence time to organize! I think we have to recognize opportunites to put other teams under pressure instead of a slow methodical buildup.

[teddym]

I honestly can't believe the level of negativity I'm seeing on this board about the team, particularly in the Canada-Cuba game thread. I understand that the fans in every country can be critical of their team at times but a "true fan" IMHO is one who can at least maintain some level of objectivity in their expectations from his/her team.

Surely, expecting a team that finished last at this stage in the last two world qualifying campaings, to come out all of a sudden and win every single game, convert every scoring chance and finish on top of the group or with still one game to go, is a little unrealistic. Here are some facts from previous campaigns we should all consider in evaluating our performance so far:

* 2002 WCQ: We finished 2nd last in the group and scored ONLY ONE GOAL in the entire 6 game campaign!

* 2006 WCQ: We finished last in the group and scored less goals in all of our 3 home games combined, than we did last night!

* 2010 WCQ: We finished last in the group, didn't win a single game, got scored on 5 times at home and didn't manage as many points as we got last night in the entire 6 game series!

This time around and at this stage of World Cup Qualifying:

* We've had our first away win since 2004!

* We've completely outplayed our opponents at home with 3 straight shut-outs in the 2nd Round - the 1st time since 1998 WCQ!

* Scored more than 2 goals in a game for the 1st time since 1996 and won with a 3 goal margin for THE 1ST TIME EVER!!!

Needless to say, I'm completely shocked by the reactions I'm seeing. We played an excellent game and achieved an excellent result. The atmosphere in the stadium was AMAZING and the boys put their heart and soul into this game and kept the fans pumped up for the entire 90 minutes. In fact, as someone who has attended 90%+ of Canada's games in Toronto since 1993, I had never seen so many fans being so pleased and impressed with the performance of the team or being so pumped up after the game.

Yes, the guys missed a lot of chances last night and it would have been great if we had won the game against Honduras in Toronto in which case we would have qualified last night, with still one game to go. And it would have been great if the Panamanians didn't take out Dero and Hart didn't make a tactical blunder and play for a tie in Panama. But those are just unrealistic expectations from a non world-class coach and a team and a country that's finally starting to find its rythm again after more than a decade.

So, looking forward, not only do we have our first chance since 1998 to qualify for the final round with one game to go, but our destiny is completely in our own hands and does not depend on what happens in the other match. As long as we manage a point in the game againt Honduras we are through. And we are not the only team that needs to achieve some sort of result to make it to the HEX - all three teams are in the same shoes, with the most pressure on Honduras, since they need all 3 points from their game (whereas Panama and Canada need only one to be guaranteed qualification).

Honduras has not played that well at home - they lost their game to Panama and although created a lot of chances against Cuba, they only managed one goal (you think we can't convert scoring chances!). Their left defence is very weak and they'll be under a tremendous amount of pressure to score - more often than not, that wears out the psyche of the team playing in front of home audience if they can't score early. Let's also not forget that we had them pinned in their own half for more than 80% of the game in Toronto and completely controlled the game, even though we didn't score.

I'm not saying that this is going to be an easy game for Canada, but if we want realistic chances of advancing to the World Cup, not just to the next round, we MUST be able to do better than 3 points out of 3 away games (in '98, we had 7 points out of 3 away games and still got killed in the HEX, losing all of our away games). If we want to play with the big boys, we need to be able to get results in big games and we don't need an extraordinary result here, just a tie would do.

Having said that, we can not afford to play for the tie in this game like we did against Panama. We need to play a very calculated but offencive game and increase the pressure on them by taking the game to Honduras from the kick-off. This 4-5-1 crap formation that we tried in the Panama game isn't going to cut it. I'm not saying we should keep playing the 4-3-3 or 3-4-3, but no decent team in the world plays a defencive 4-5-1 and if we want to be a decent team, we have to start playing like one. The worst thing we can do in this game is to take the pressure off their defence by having only one forward and telling our misdfield to sit back. A defencive 3-5-2 or 4-4-2 is the minimum offencive posture that would be acceptable for this game. We don't need to commit a lot of numbers to any particular attack if we're going for calculated crosses by rushing their left defence or taking long distance shots.

Our chances of advancing to the HEX are much more realistic to me at this point than they were before this round started. I hope the boys play with the same level of commitment and passion that they played last night and they know that 10's of thousands of fans are standing behind them at home and cheering them on.

Go Canada... Let's see thee rise!

You'll see what all the negativity is about on Tuesday night.

[jpg75]

Do we get a medal for being most improved or something?

Going out with 10 points is the exact same as going out with 0 points. This qualification process is a complete failure if we don't get to the hex and everyone is worried because we've put ourselves in the position where its 90 minutes away from happening against the team that seems to knock us out of every competition.

Exactly. This isn't little league where we get a medal for showing up, we either make it to the Hex or we go home. Moral victories is what has gotten this program to the point of near irrelevance.

That being said, I think we can get what we need down there Tuesday. If I could pick one place in Central America to play (that isn't Belize or Nicaragua) I'd probably pick Honduras. Our last three times down there we've been tied or better at the hour mark and I would be thrilled to get to that point and take our chances from there.

Fully agree. With the exception of the last WCQ cycle the Hondurans have typically given up a lot of points on their home turf. It's usually been a case of incompetent defending, crushing expectations and enigmatic skill players.

Too many times we depend on crossing the ball in the air from the flank... and Hutchinson has enough class to make intelligent passes near goal, but overall we do not have enough of this.

Also, too many times we win posession and send the ball back to reset. This gives the defence time to organize! I think we have to recognize opportunites to put other teams under pressure instead of a slow methodical buildup.

We kept playing to the flanks, over and over again til i wanted to puke. We kept refusing to send through balls or balls over the top for our sprinters to run onto, and we kept stopping, turning and playing it back way too much for my liking. Sometimes you just have to take a chance and run into a space to try and pull a defender towards you so you can put a ball behind the backline for your forwards to get onto.

I understand what Hart is trying to do, but he's sucked any courage out of the attack in doing so.

[The Beh]

Just needing a tie is nice and all, but when the opposition scores that first goal, all bets are off.

And that's exactly why I'm suggesting that we shouldn't sit back or play for a tie and should take the game to them from the get go. I too am worried about that first goal, but just imagine how much more worried and nervous the Hondurans are about us scoring a first goal. If they score a 1st goal, one goal is still a win for us. If we score the 1st goal, they have a seriously uphill battle.

Lowering your expectations because of past underperformance is not what being a supporter is about.

I'm not lowering my expectations, I just didn't have unrealistic expectations that we would come out and play like Spain all of a sudden! Of course past performance is an important factor. So, you think the Guyanese supporters should have been expecting their team to qualify ahead of Mexico and Costa Rica? There's a difference between dreaming and supporting. I think the effort has been there in this campaign for the most parts, I think the fans have been amazing and I think that 10 points out of 5 games is as good as any real supporter should have expected from the lowest ranked team (when the draw was made) in the group.

And I'm not lowering my expectations or having unrealistic expectations for this last game either. It's going to be a tough game that we can win (or at least tie) with a good dedicated team that put its heart and soul into it in the last game and if we believe in ourselves. And if your expectations were higher than mine (i.e. you had not lowered your expectations becase of past underperforamce), then you should have expected from the very start that we would get a great result in this game - even more than I did/do!

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The guys that are being negative just don't make any sense to me in this particular situation. They were expecting us to play beautiful flawless football up to this point, but at the same time they weren't expecting us to get a single point against Honduras in San Pedro Sulas. It's like going to a high-end restaurant, where your expecting the highest quality food, but at the same time knowing that you're going to puke at the end!!!

[jpg75]

You'll see what all the negativity is about on Tuesday night.

There's a difference between being realistic and being pessimistic. Let's not fold our hand before it's dealt. I'm a little under 50% sure we're going to get a result, but I still believe in this team.

[Canada1]

Were going into battle on Tues and this suits those with the negative waves.

Donald Feels we will prevail. Keep it positive my friends. Lighten up Enjoy the ride it's the World Cup and we are so close to the HEX.

[Joe MacCarthy]

Ok, just to inject a little positivity. That was the first time that I recall the team playing with a sense of urgency and that was for most of the second half. They knew they had to score goals and they didn't lollygag around.

As for the negative, they still show sign of stupid, undisciplined decision making. Yes the Occean red was somewhat excessive but why did he put himself in that position. Why were they in the friggin' net. Stupid, stupid, stupid! The only reason I can figure was my comment above about urgency and trying to restart play. I'm amazed deGuzman didn't get a card. The Cubans were almost targeting him to get him to foul (and thus be carded). Couldn't he just lay low for a bit.

It's vital we score first. If the fakers do then they just go into the crying act and kill off the clock. A counter/defensive style to me is almost like tacitly accepting defeat before the game is even started. Do like Ali-Foreman, go out and punch the bully right in the head. No respect.

[theaub]

I'm not lowering my expectations, I just didn't have unrealistic expectations that we would come out and play like Spain all of a sudden! Of course past performance is an important factor. So, you think the Guyanese supporters should have been expecting their team to qualify ahead of Mexico and Costa Rica? There's a difference between dreaming and supporting. I think the effort has been there in this campaign for the most parts, I think the fans have been amazing and I think that 10 points out of 5 games is as good as any real supporter should have expected from the lowest ranked team (when the draw was made) in the group.

The first part of this paragraph would be relevant to us if you think we're at the same level of Guyana in CONCACAF. In which case I don't know what to say.

I don't think anyone on here is being unrealistic. No one is saying we should have 15 points and a +10 goal differential or anything like that. But it is not unreasonable at all to suggest that we should've beat Honduras in June in which case we'd be sitting at 12 points, first in the group and playing the youth on Tuesday. Honestly, the disappointment comes because this team has played well. We dominated all three home matches, won on the road in a qualifier for the first time in ever, and still didn't manage to get through before the last match.

But I do agree with one general concept. We don't play in games like this very often so its time to sit back and enjoy, and hope for the best.

[Canada1]

The first part of this paragraph would be relevant to us if you think we're at the same level of Guyana in CONCACAF. In which case I don't know what to say.

I don't think anyone on here is being unrealistic. No one is saying we should have 15 points and a +10 goal differential or anything like that. But it is not unreasonable at all to suggest that we should've beat Honduras in June in which case we'd be sitting at 12 points, first in the group and playing the youth on Tuesday. Honestly, the disappointment comes because this team has played well. We dominated all three home matches, won on the road in a qualifier for the first time in ever, and still didn't manage to get through before the last match.

But I do agree with one general concept. We don't play in games like this very often so its time to sit back and enjoy, and hope for the best.

And this is what I am getting at. We can analyse the crap out of these matches. After a while it's the same S*** even from newcomers. Like you say, sit back, support and enjoy the ride as we only get this every four years. With all the negativeness those newbees to the website pick up on it and become also discouraged.

I really hope this team makes it and I feel we have as much of a chance as Honduras. I can only imagine Tuesday night if we do make it and what the postings will be. So I like many back this team.

[Califax]

I can't be negative, or positive, I'm just scared to death. I'm going to be walking around like a ghost until 4 on Tuesday, which sucks because I have quite a busy week ahead. I'm doing the CSL quarterfinal tomorrow with "futsal" and for the life of me I don't know how I'll be able to watch that soccer game (or any) without thinking about ours.

You boys had the cuba trip, we've had a **** ton of games at home, the pre game parties (which have brought the level of Voyageur interaction to an all time high) and what through 5 games has been as successful a qualifying session that I can remember.

Bottom line, this can't end. I will be absolutely gutted if I have to wait 3.5 years to feel as good as I do right now. My heart will literally break and I'm not in any way, shape or form prepared for that. There is seriously something to be said for not knowing how bad you want something until it's on the verge of being ripped away from you.

So dear god, let's slay this dragon that is Honduras and keep this dream alive. I feels way too good to stop now.

[Sam]

I can't be negative, or positive, I'm just scared to death. I'm going to be walking around like a ghost until 4 on Tuesday, which sucks because I have quite a busy week ahead. I'm doing the CSL quarterfinal tomorrow with "futsal" and for the life of me I don't know how I'll be able to watch that soccer game (or any) without thinking about ours.

You boys had the cuba trip, we've had a **** ton of games at home, the pre game parties (which have brought the level of Voyageur interaction to an all time high) and what through 5 games has been as successful a qualifying session that I can remember.

Bottom line, this can't end. I will be absolutely gutted if I have to wait 3.5 years to feel as good as I do right now. My heart will literally break and I'm not in any way, shape or form prepared for that. There is seriously something to be said for not knowing how bad you want something until it's on the verge of being ripped away from you.

So dear god, let's slay this dragon that is Honduras and keep this dream alive. I feels way too good to stop now.

This is how I'm feeling. It's like if we don't get a result in Honduras, not only does our World Cup dream end but as does what's been a fantastic extended summer of football. The games have been awesome, the Voyageurs keep growing and these are huge events with the pre and post game stuff. Really don't want to have to wait four more years for this again.

With all of this nervousness and anxiety leading up till Tuesday, I'm not sure if it is better or worse that I can't actually watch the game.

[mtlfan]

On Friday Netherlands beat 201st ranked Andorra at home 3-0.

Yes Canada needed more poise around the final third but the results are what was necessary.

I believe our guys will get the job done.

[villus]

I'm over last game, overall I was happy with everything but the finishing guys definitely showed they cared and gave it their all as they almost always do. I think we can get it done, we are short some key players but I think we should be able to go down there and get a result. DeJong starting wide left for a game like this is a good thing, he can defend well and get forward when needed, the 3 central midfielders and CB's need to have a big game starting and breaking up attacks and controlling possession, if they do that I think the 3 forwards will step up and hopefully do their part.

[killgod]

You are confusing objectivity with negativity. The Cubans are the patsies of the group. We should have beaten Honduras, but you could just as easily point out we were lucky to take 3 points against Panama at BMO.

None of it matters now.

Honduras was also lucky to leave BMO with 1pt.

Glass half full or half empty, your choice.

[killgod]

I can't be negative, or positive, I'm just scared to death. I'm going to be walking around like a ghost until 4 on Tuesday, which sucks because I have quite a busy week ahead. I'm doing the CSL quarterfinal tomorrow with "futsal" and for the life of me I don't know how I'll be able to watch that soccer game (or any) without thinking about ours.

You boys had the cuba trip, we've had a **** ton of games at home, the pre game parties (which have brought the level of Voyageur interaction to an all time high) and what through 5 games has been as successful a qualifying session that I can remember.

Bottom line, this can't end. I will be absolutely gutted if I have to wait 3.5 years to feel as good as I do right now. My heart will literally break and I'm not in any way, shape or form prepared for that. There is seriously something to be said for not knowing how bad you want something until it's on the verge of being ripped away from you.

So dear god, let's slay this dragon that is Honduras and keep this dream alive. I feels way too good to stop now.

Hear ya.

I take solace in the fact that when we did qualify for the World Cup, we secured our only ever Win @ Honduras in the process of doing it (yeah I know the NFLD game was the seal at the end, but every point earned in a stage is equal.)