Jump to content

Steven Vitória


Yohan

Recommended Posts

It's glory hunting that rubs people the wrong way. 

We will never get to hypocritical comparisons until Canada is a world power pulling future Arfields from the Bulgarians and the Japanese 40 years from now.

For now, we get players who couldn't make their home country and lose players who could make a major difference for us. 

Id say its apples and oragnes but it's more ice wine and port.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Personally, I just think it is funny that some folks think this is some sort of rational endeavour.  In a soccer context, I think all Hondurans are all douchebags.  I don't care if [insert stereotypical latino name] does a lot of good humanitarian work in the poor community he came from.  83 years ago some fans threw bags of piss, and 8-1 - therefore, when it comes to footy, they can all rot in hell. 

Vittoria treated us like the fat chick at the prom, so we are allowed to be shitty right back.  If he ends up being a key player in the MNT, I am sure the detractors will come around.  Remember Hoillet - 92 pages of prose cruxification, then one good performance in WCQ and almost everyone wants to give him a nice warm reach-around.

Soccer is not a rational undertaking.  Cheering for the Nats even less so (who the fuck would realistically cheer for Canada if it was?).

Lets be honest - we care passionately about a group of peoples' ability to kick a glorified balloon into an opening.  Irrationality carries the day.  Love Vittoria, hate him - either one is equally valid, and equally ridiculous to justify in cold hard logic.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 26 January, 2016 at 9:06 AM, Obinna said:

The biggest thing that rubs me the wrong way on the issue of duel [sic] nationals is that we celebrate those who play for us and demonize those who don't. It is completely hypocritical.

 

You're comparing apples and oranges.  Players who play for us usually aren't good enough to play for other countries, and the others are glory seekers who see themselves moving up playing for another country only to further their careers instead of playing for the true passion of playing for ones country.

If a player grows up in, say Calgary, and goes to England to further his development, great.  However, if he then finds out he's good enough to get a sniff with England and turns his back on Canada, yes, he can go snap his knee caps off for all I care.  If he decided to play for us instead, England has plenty of players and they wouldn't miss him.

There is that Evra kid who may play for Canada, and in this case I feel bad for St. Lucia because he would actually be making a move UP to play for Canada which is definitely an exception to the rule.  I would feel sorry for St. Lucia but at the same time hope he can help us. 

Imagine if some kid from Australia wanted to play hockey and came to Canada to play for a professional team, or even for the Canucks, and then decided he wants to play for Canada instead of Australia.  The five or six hockey fans in Australia would be pretty ticked.  However, if a Canadian kid wants to play hockey for Australia, as I think a few have for Switzerland, go ahead.  Canadians wouldn't miss him. 

Edit:  I was going to comment on this earlier, and now I see Califax has said what I was thinking.  Oh well, I'll post this anyway.

Edited by SuperCanuck
saw similar post
Link to comment
Share on other sites

^ Not to harp on it but that's pretty much it.  If Paul DiPietro wants to go play for Switzerland, even if he scores the winning goal against us in the Olympics (as he did) no one is really going to care because he wasn't going to play for us anyways.  We can blame the (hypothetically) far superior players that shit the bed that game.

If Roman Josi all of the sudden gained Canadian citizenship somehow, the Swiss would rightfully be pretty pissed if he suits up as our 6th d-man.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, SuperCanuck said:

You're comparing apples and oranges.  Players who play for us usually aren't good enough to play for other countries, and the others are glory seekers who see themselves moving up playing for another country only to further their careers instead of playing for the true passion of playing for ones country.

Marcel de Jong, Will Johnson, Ian Hume and many more of our players have literally done the exact same thing.

They aren't good enough to play for their countries (Holland, USA, Scotland, etc.), so they see themselves "moving up" playing for another country only to further their careers.

It is a two-way street and i'm sure i'm not the only one that gets tired of this rhetoric that Canada is always the victim and never the beneficiary. 

Players make the best decision for their careers. Is it unfortunate, of course, but the reality is that it is the biggest factor in their decision making. That doesn't mean Jonathan de Guzman doesn't make me sick (he does) and it doesn't mean I don't love Ian Hume (I do), but what I can't stand is people playing the victim card when it's not warranted.

For example, I'm sure most of you are thinking "we lose our best players and get the scrubs from other countries", but those scrubs from other countries make up the backbone of our team and many are loyal servants who are proud to wear the maple leaf, regardless of whether or not their choice was driven by upward career mobility. 

So if you want to picture a world where our best players actually play for us, it has to also be a world where nearly half of our players don't. The top end talent would be much better, but the depth will be substantially compromised. We'd likely be no further ahead.

Some of you have made it clear you are not into making this a "rational undertaking", but come on guys that is a bit of a cop out. This is a forum; a place where you come to have an online discussion and debate about a particular subject.

There needs to be minimum level of rational thought for it to remain valuable. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Marcel de Jong, Will Johnson, Ian Hume and many more of our players have literally done the exact same thing.

They aren't good enough to play for their countries (Holland, USA, Scotland, etc.), so they see themselves "moving up" playing for another country only to further their careers.

It is a two-way street and i'm sure i'm not the only one that gets tired of this rhetoric that Canada is always the victim and never the beneficiary. 

Players make the best decision for their careers. Is it unfortunate, of course, but the reality is that it is the biggest factor in their decision making. That doesn't mean Jonathan de Guzman doesn't make me sick (he does) and it doesn't mean I don't love Ian Hume (I do), but what I can't stand is people playing the victim card when it's not warranted.

For example, I'm sure most of you are thinking "we lose our best players and get the scrubs from other countries", but those scrubs from other countries make up the backbone of our team and many are loyal servants who are proud to wear the maple leaf, regardless of whether or not their choice was driven by upward career mobility. 

So if you want to picture a world where our best players actually play for us, it has to also be a world where nearly half of our players don't. The top end talent would be much better, but the depth will be substantially compromised. We'd likely be no further ahead.

Some of you have made it clear you are not into making this a "rational undertaking", but come on guys that is a bit of a cop out. This is a forum; a place where you come to have an online discussion and debate about a particular subject.

There needs to be minimum level of rational thought for it to remain valuable. 

 

I think it may be questionable that playing for Canada is a way to move your career along.  If you are a manager of a pro club in Europe and you're choosing between a European journeyman who is going to be with your club 100% of the time because he has no national team commitments and a Canadian who will likely miss games/practices/etc.. while he is flying halfway around the world to play for the national team, who do you pick to add to your roster?  In a lot of cases, playing for a struggling national team more than likely hurts your career, as being away from the club for an extended period of time and coming back jet lagged isn't going to help you maintain your starting spot.

I would guess that being a member of the Canadian national soccer team is viewed in Europe like being a member of the Dutch national hockey team would be in Canada.  A nice contribution to add to the players info box on the match day program but little else.

Edited by AvroArrow
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Choosing to play for Canada is literally the exact opposite of glory hunting.

Unless you think reaching the semi-final round of World Cup qualifying is the pinnacle.  In which case you probably don't have the required mentality to play professional sports in the first place.

Edited by theaub
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Obinna said:

Marcel de Jong, Will Johnson, Ian Hume and many more of our players have literally done the exact same thing.

They aren't good enough to play for their countries (Holland, USA, Scotland, etc.), so they see themselves "moving up" playing for another country only to further their careers.

It is a two-way street and i'm sure i'm not the only one that gets tired of this rhetoric that Canada is always the victim and never the beneficiary. 

Players make the best decision for their careers. Is it unfortunate, of course, but the reality is that it is the biggest factor in their decision making. That doesn't mean Jonathan de Guzman doesn't make me sick (he does) and it doesn't mean I don't love Ian Hume (I do), but what I can't stand is people playing the victim card when it's not warranted.

For example, I'm sure most of you are thinking "we lose our best players and get the scrubs from other countries", but those scrubs from other countries make up the backbone of our team and many are loyal servants who are proud to wear the maple leaf, regardless of whether or not their choice was driven by upward career mobility. 

So if you want to picture a world where our best players actually play for us, it has to also be a world where nearly half of our players don't. The top end talent would be much better, but the depth will be substantially compromised. We'd likely be no further ahead.

Some of you have made it clear you are not into making this a "rational undertaking", but come on guys that is a bit of a cop out. This is a forum; a place where you come to have an online discussion and debate about a particular subject.

There needs to be minimum level of rational thought for it to remain valuable. 

 

There is a big difference for a dual citizen in playing for another country when you are not wanted by the other versus when you are. Also some people also have two legitimate choices and we certainly don't have a problem with them choosing the other when it is legitimate. And Hume has strong ties to Canada, he grew up here, his parents still live here and at the youth level he actually turned down Scotland (which was probably the better career choice) for Canada.   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 1/26/2016 at 2:12 PM, jpg75 said:

When Vitoria was at the NTC he was still a forward, heck Porto didn't want him as a forward either. If he had not been switched to CB at his second trial the guy would be working at a Churrasco Chicken place on Dundas West.

Great. Now I want chicken.

Any particular one you are talking about?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, Grizzly said:

There is a big difference for a dual citizen in playing for another country when you are not wanted by the other versus when you are. Also some people also have two legitimate choices and we certainly don't have a problem with them choosing the other when it is legitimate. And Hume has strong ties to Canada, he grew up here, his parents still live here and at the youth level he actually turned down Scotland (which was probably the better career choice) for Canada.   

When I agree with Grizzly, the discussion is over.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, Grizzly said:

There is a big difference for a dual citizen in playing for another country when you are not wanted by the other versus when you are. Also some people also have two legitimate choices and we certainly don't have a problem with them choosing the other when it is legitimate. And Hume has strong ties to Canada, he grew up here, his parents still live here and at the youth level he actually turned down Scotland (which was probably the better career choice) for Canada.   

Point taken on Ian Hume - that was a poor example.

However, regarding players with two "legitimate choices", it is obvious that "we" DO have a problem with them choosing the other nation when it is legitimate. Evidence? Vitoria's decision to play to the U-20 Portugal team. 

Does anyone actually want to step up and suggest that decision was not "legitimate"?

23 hours ago, AvroArrow said:

I think it may be questionable that playing for Canada is a way to move your career along.  

This community was critical of Hoilett for choosing Canada, because it accused him of viewing us as his best opportunity to get playing time, since he was frozen out at QPR.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Obinna said:

 

However, regarding players with two "legitimate choices", it is obvious that "we" DO have a problem with them choosing the other nation when it is legitimate. Evidence? Vitoria's decision to play to the U-20 Portugal team. 

Does anyone actually want to step up and suggest that decision was not "legitimate."

Me.

Full stop. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/soccer/benfica-defender-steven-vitoria-set-for-canadian-debut-against-united-states/article28577275/

I'll let his words speak for themselves:

“One thing that I was always careful about when I was approached by Canada in the last few years since I went overseas, I always wanted to be respectful,” he said. “I never said no. I always explained my situation, that I was more focused establishing myself with my club at the time.“I was 18 when I went over. Growing up you have to make some decisions. And that was a decision that I made at that time. Portugal gave me a choice that Canada never did at that time. But I don’t want to get into how the system was run back them … All that matters is the moment that we’re living [in] now. I’m here with the national team. I’m very honoured and very grateful for this opportunity.”

 

Also, the rumour of the Benfica contract termination seems to be false. He's likely going back to Europe for 2016. What leagues still have their transfer windows open? Norway? Sweden? Russia? Finland? Romania?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transfer_window

Any others not listed there? Can Benfica loan him out if the Portuguese window is closed?

Link to comment
Share on other sites


3 seasons, 79 appearances and 19 goals with Estoril in Portuguese top flight 2010-2013.  He did not play and stagnated for 2 solid years at Benfica before his 2015 loan to MLS, and his option was not picked up by Philadelphia this past December.  

His Benfica contract expires June 2017.

At this point, he's back in our pool and I'd like to see the guy play tonite to assess where he is at.  

Edited by BrennanFan
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • jordan changed the title to Steven Vitória

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...