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Steven Vitória


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That philly.com article reads like its about a guy who's now open to playing for Canada.

 

When a guy mentions, right now I want to focus on my club, it doesn't sound like a guy open to play for Canada. I've never heard a guy say "right now I want to focus for my club" and play for Canada afterwards.

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Akindele, Vitoria, Hoilett and Finlay are all still eligible and none have yet publicly shot down the idea of playing for Canada. That is positive if you want to play the optimist role. It is still possible that some or even all of these guys are lacing up for us during this WCQ cycle. Things could technically end up looking like this:

 

---------------------Borjan------------------

Legderwood--Henry--Vitoria----de Jong

---------------------Edgar-------------------

--------------Johnson--Hutchinson-------

--------------------Osorio-------------------

--------------Akindele--Hoilett-------------

 

G Stamatopolis

D Jakovic

D Hainault

M Teibert

M de Guzman

F Finlay

F Cavillni

 

That is a great squad for Canada based solely on talent, and admittedly chemistry would an issue initially, but would it be accompanied by pride to represent the Maple Leaf? 

 

Thats a sexy squad. I'd put Cavillini ahead of Akindele though. Lucas plays in a Latin American league and would have more experience playing in those shit holes in central america. No matter what the quality of Uruguay the kid is still banging them in. Akindele had a short burst in MLS then was avg. Plus Pizza Hut Park aint Honduras. 

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It also reads like its about a guy who is using a potential Canada call to leverage a call up from Portugal.

 

Lol I dont think it does. You dont go 18 months at Benfica playing 1 game then loan out to MLS and try to leverage your Canada call up to get called up to Portugal. 

 

The ship has sailed on Portugal and he knows that. 

 

If he wasn't getting called up when captain of Estoril at 26 in their top league he isn't getting called up as the captain of the Philly Union. 

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When a guy mentions, right now I want to focus on my club, it doesn't sound like a guy open to play for Canada. I've never heard a guy say "right now I want to focus for my club" and play for Canada afterwards.

 

Perhaps this is the summer that trend is broken with Hoilett, Cavallani and Vitoria. 

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These questions come up all the time, usually they just say "I'm focused on the club, haven't thought about it", rather than making a point to say they've never turned us down and such. Again, just my two cents, I have zero insider knowledge.

 

Very good point. Interesting he wanted to make it clear that in his mind he never turned down a call up(not sure how can say that but whatever)

 

sounds like hes trying to re build bridges that he burned down years ago. 

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Dude's basically got two choices as an international: play for Canada, or don't play at all. I'm sure he knows it.

 

One game for Benfica does not a diva make, but obviously there's some talent there. Still, if he wants to play for Canada, he'll have to prove himself and want it. If not, who cares?

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Dude's basically got two choices as an international: play for Canada, or don't play at all. I'm sure he knows it.

One game for Benfica does not a diva make, but obviously there's some talent there. Still, if he wants to play for Canada, he'll have to prove himself and want it. If not, who cares?

Well put.

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Not sure where to put this. But I just wanted to share the difference between Canadian basketballl players and Canadian soccer players. 

 

Kyle Wiltjer, who was born to a Canadian father in Portland Oregon has decided to represent Canada internationally. Yesterday he scored 45 points for number 3 ranked Gonzaga (who has 2 other canadians one of which is kevin pangos) en route to their 20th win in a row. If he keeps it up he will get drafted to the NBA. 

 

The CSA should be in contact with Basketball Canada and ask them how the hell they get players to choose Canada over the United States. Branding has to do something with it. People and players are looking highly at basketball Canada and its future. 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyle_Wiltjer

 

http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=400587348

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Not sure where to put this. But I just wanted to share the difference between Canadian basketballl players and Canadian soccer players. 

 

Kyle Wiltjer, who was born to a Canadian father in Portland Oregon has decided to represent Canada internationally. Yesterday he scored 45 points for number 3 ranked Gonzaga (who has 2 other canadians one of which is kevin pangos) en route to their 20th win in a row. If he keeps it up he will get drafted to the NBA. 

 

The CSA should be in contact with Basketball Canada and ask them how the hell they get players to choose Canada over the United States. Branding has to do something with it. People and players are looking highly at basketball Canada and its future. 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyle_Wiltjer

 

http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=400587348

 

Don't forget Andrew Wiggins could have play for US national team (his father is American), but he decided to play for Canada instead.   

 

However, Canada basketball (who have even less resources than CSA) since manage to keep their players while developing very good basketball players.   CSA needs to hire Canadian basketball guys to run soccer in this country.  

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Kyle Wiltjer was not that good to play for the US. He was in the 18th-25th best in his class coming out of high school. When you have 12 players on a basketball team, and you're not even in the top 12 of your age group, (For U-19s and stuff and I'm sure some players 1 year older/younger would be better) it's a easy to say yes to Canada. Canada basketball has lost many players recently including one to Serbia. (Stefan Nastic, IIRC) Sure they've gotten players like Wiggins to play for Canada, but when Wiggins first played for Canada, he was 15 and was still living in Canada and I don't think that USA Basketball is like USSF, ie poaching any player that could be good enough for them, because thet've got tons of talent there and it would look bad of them to recruit players from either team.

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Kyle Wiltjer was not that good to play for the US. He was in the 18th-25th best in his class coming out of high school. When you have 12 players on a basketball team, and you're not even in the top 12 of your age group, (For U-19s and stuff and I'm sure some players 1 year older/younger would be better) it's a easy to say yes to Canada. Canada basketball has lost many players recently including one to Serbia. (Stefan Nastic, IIRC) Sure they've gotten players like Wiggins to play for Canada, but when Wiggins first played for Canada, he was 15 and was still living in Canada and I don't think that USA Basketball is like USSF, ie poaching any player that could be good enough for them, because thet've got tons of talent there and it would look bad of them to recruit players from either team.

 

Some could argue Vitoria was never good enough to play for Portugual or Bunbury for the States, or Hoilett for whoever he is holding out for. 

 

Thing is if he was a soccer player he probably would've waited until he was at least a pro for a couple years before saying he will play for Canada. Canadian soccer players love testing the waters but he confirmed at a young college age that he would represent Canada. 

 

Regardless Basketball Canada does better to retain or even recruit more talent. I understand FIFA and soccer is a totally different beast(ie. play b ball for Canada or Jamaica or Mexico). But perception is everything. People in Canada think of Basketball Canada as up and coming and players want to play for Canada. Ie. Wiggins wanting to play in the Pan Ams. We need to create the same perception with the CSA.

 

I see Nastic has played u18 and u20's for Serbia. I wonder why he chose that route. Did he think he had no shot with Canada? We're pretty deep at Centre/Power Forward, with Olynyk, Nicholson, Anthony, Sacre, Bhullar and Thompson. Too bad because Nastic is having a good senior year at stanford. 

 

The players Canada basketball tend to lose are the ones who think they won't even make Canada and not stars like Wiggins, Olynik, Thompson, Joseph. And the players we tend to gain are ones who aren't good enough for the States (sacre, wiltjer).

Edited by king1010
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Not sure where to put this. But I just wanted to share the difference between Canadian basketballl players and Canadian soccer players. 

 

Kyle Wiltjer, who was born to a Canadian father in Portland Oregon has decided to represent Canada internationally. Yesterday he scored 45 points for number 3 ranked Gonzaga (who has 2 other canadians one of which is kevin pangos) en route to their 20th win in a row. If he keeps it up he will get drafted to the NBA. 

 

The CSA should be in contact with Basketball Canada and ask them how the hell they get players to choose Canada over the United States. Branding has to do something with it. People and players are looking highly at basketball Canada and its future. 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyle_Wiltjer

 

http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=400587348

Canadians never pretend to be American (Bunbury/Akindele excluded).  It's much more desirable to pretend you're Spanish or Portuguese or Irish or English or Ukrainian or etc. 

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I think it's a bit of apples and oranges.

 

I get the impression switching allegiances in soccer is often done with career in mind, whereas with Basketball a different nationality doesn't real help you get in the NBA (and lets be honest, Canadian kids only watch the NBA). 

 

Would Vitoria sign a contract with Benfica if he has suited up for Canada in the U20s? Maybe, but he had to know it would be a crap ton easier if he had the Portugese U20 coach and those resources on his side helping to get that contract. 

 

Same goes for Deguzman and most (but not all) of the nationality switchers I can think of.

 

If Wiggins decides to play for the US what does it get him? Maybe it makes him a bunch more cash if he makes the Olympic team but besides that not much.

 

I think the two situations are quite different from each other.

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Some could argue Vitoria was never good enough to play for Portugual or Bunbury for the States, or Hoilett for whoever he is holding out for. 

 

Thing is if he was a soccer player he probably would've waited until he was at least a pro for a couple years before saying he will play for Canada. Canadian soccer players love testing the waters but he confirmed at a young college age that he would represent Canada. 

 

Regardless Basketball Canada does better to retain or even recruit more talent. I understand FIFA and soccer is a totally different beast(ie. play b ball for Canada or Jamaica or Mexico). But perception is everything. People in Canada think of Basketball Canada as up and coming and players want to play for Canada. Ie. Wiggins wanting to play in the Pan Ams. We need to create the same perception with the CSA.

 

I see Nastic has played u18 and u20's for Serbia. I wonder why he chose that route. Did he think he had no shot with Canada? We're pretty deep at Centre/Power Forward, with Olynyk, Nicholson, Anthony, Sacre, Bhullar and Thompson. Too bad because Nastic is having a good senior year at stanford. 

 

The players Canada basketball tend to lose are the ones who think they won't even make Canada and not stars like Wiggins, Olynik, Thompson, Joseph. And the players we tend to gain are ones who aren't good enough for the States (sacre, wiltjer).

 

Vitoria was good enough to play for a Portuguese youth team. Bunbury was good enough to play for an American youth team. Wiltjer was never good enough for an US youth team.  I think that those are totally different. Wiltjer is more comparable to a Sandro Grande than those players if you want to give a soccer example. That would make your point.

 

Nastic was good enough to play for Canada, he chose to play for Serbia instead. I think that Canada Basketball has an edge because most of our players don't have a better choice.  And I don't think that the CSA can do something until we can make the World Cup consistently. I do think that it was in the best interest of the players to play in the youth basketball tournaments because they can get big NCAA scholarships that way, even play high school basketball down South. Playing those tournaments his bigger for the player than for Canada Basketball. . Are they just Jamal Magloire 2.0. (A guy who got a scholarship to Kentucky and got drafted early in the NBA and who never answered the call after becoming a pro or are they really in it for Canada? Time will tell, but one thing that they have is that they can win.

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Some could argue Vitoria was never good enough to play for Portugual or Bunbury for the States, or Hoilett for whoever he is holding out for. 

 

Thing is if he was a soccer player he probably would've waited until he was at least a pro for a couple years before saying he will play for Canada. Canadian soccer players love testing the waters but he confirmed at a young college age that he would represent Canada. 

 

Regardless Basketball Canada does better to retain or even recruit more talent. I understand FIFA and soccer is a totally different beast(ie. play b ball for Canada or Jamaica or Mexico). But perception is everything. People in Canada think of Basketball Canada as up and coming and players want to play for Canada. Ie. Wiggins wanting to play in the Pan Ams. We need to create the same perception with the CSA.

 

I see Nastic has played u18 and u20's for Serbia. I wonder why he chose that route. Did he think he had no shot with Canada? We're pretty deep at Centre/Power Forward, with Olynyk, Nicholson, Anthony, Sacre, Bhullar and Thompson. Too bad because Nastic is having a good senior year at stanford. 

 

The players Canada basketball tend to lose are the ones who think they won't even make Canada and not stars like Wiggins, Olynik, Thompson, Joseph. And the players we tend to gain are ones who aren't good enough for the States (sacre, wiltjer).

 

The turn-around with Canada Basketball has been nice to see. Gone are the days of begging Magloire and Dalembert to play and hoping the Red Rocket would get his citizenship in time. In my mind, it all stems from Steve Nash. Read any intereview with any of these young guys (there is a recent Grantland article on Wiltjer) and they all speak about how involved Nash is with the youth national teams. Unfortunately for soccer, we don't have a leader with the charisma and stature of Steve Nash in the game.

 

I also think that basketball also has a smaller pool of elite players to evaluate - by the time the kids are 15, everyone pretty much knows who is in the national team pool. I think Laszlo has hit the main points bang on though - there is only one league the kids want to play in and it is in the US. The US talent pool is stocked and 99% of the kids in question aren't good enough to play for the US so there is nothing to lose by playing for Canada (especially when Canada has Steve Nash as its front man). Also, other than maybe Greece, Serbia, Spain, Lithuania and Argentina, there aren't really that many other options that are better than Canada (unlike soccer). Rautins and Stauskas aside, most other Canadian kids playing hoops probably don't have many other options that are better than Canada where they could make the team.

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The turn-around with Canada Basketball has been nice to see. Gone are the days of begging Magloire and Dalembert to play and hoping the Red Rocket would get his citizenship in time. In my mind, it all stems from Steve Nash. Read any intereview with any of these young guys (there is a recent Grantland article on Wiltjer) and they all speak about how involved Nash is with the youth national teams. Unfortunately for soccer, we don't have a leader with the charisma and stature of Steve Nash in the game.

 

I also think that basketball also has a smaller pool of elite players to evaluate - by the time the kids are 15, everyone pretty much knows who is in the national team pool. I think Laszlo has hit the main points bang on though - there is only one league the kids want to play in and it is in the US. The US talent pool is stocked and 99% of the kids in question aren't good enough to play for the US so there is nothing to lose by playing for Canada (especially when Canada has Steve Nash as its front man). Also, other than maybe Greece, Serbia, Spain, Lithuania and Argentina, there aren't really that many other options that are better than Canada (unlike soccer). Rautins and Stauskas aside, most other Canadian kids playing hoops probably don't have many other options that are better than Canada where they could make the team.

 

I don't follow every Canadian prospect very closely but I think the turn around in national team basketball has more to do with Vince Carter, Tracy McGrady, Charles Oakley and the Toronto Raptors of the late 90s early 00s.

Edited by mserson
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I don't follow every Canadian prospect very closely but I think the turn around in national team basketball has more to do with Vince Carter, Tracy McGrady, Charles Oakley and the Toronto Raptors of the late 90s early 00s.

 

It's not Steve Nash the player, but Steve Nash as the face of Basketball Canada. He gives it credibility and direction and he has shown a willingness to get involved with the kids at the youth level. He's telling them why it is important to play for Canada and how it benefits the development and career. Before he got involved in the leadership of Basketball Canada, there was no focus and no desire to play for Canada (see Magloire). No doubt the Raptors got kids in the GTA fired up and into basketball which has also played an vital role in the talent available. I'm loathe to give those narcissists too much credit for anything though.

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I think there are a combination of factors that have led to the development of Canada basketball, most of which cannot unfortunately be correlated in this country with soccer development

(1) as mentioned, most of the canadian players with the exception of Wiggins could not make the U.S. team or at the very least would be log shots.

(2) the remainder have very limited choices usually their homelands like Slovenia and Serbia

(3) as canada has produced a golden generation the players know that if they stay together they can be competitive with any team in the world going forward with the exception of the US but even there they always have a shot in a one game situation. This is significantly different to soccer. We have no golden generation and even with all our stars we cannot hope to get to the final rounds of the World Cup no matter be even guaranteed to get into a tournament. Also, in soccer, you are talking about gruelling qualifiers spread over years in far flung hostile locals. Basketball is a few exhibition games in the summer and one qualifying tournament in the same hemisphere where the best players are located.

(4) international exposure is not a ticket to the nba. Canadian basketball really changed when it started leveraging the proximity to the world's global basketball super power by training and sending down to the states teams in the summer leagues which showcased star players who were then picked up by allstar academy high school teams in the us who were directly scouted by the leading division I schools (Kansas, Syracuse, Kentucky, etc.). Playing in fiba championships for youth does little to showcase players as best basketball is still in the US. We used to adopt this model for soccer in Canada by sending our best to Europe but it didn't work as that just opened opportunities for them with much better national sides and we lost or best players (Hargreaves, de Guzman, etc.). The model that does work is keeping the players closer to home in the Mls academies and leveraging the competition in the US. However, that is a much more long term project as to a certain extent our player development is tied to the continual improved US Development on he world stage.

(5) now Returning to wiggins, he is really the only player that had a realistic shot at choosing the U.S. but what we he gain by that, there is no guarantee he would get a starting or even bench role with the U.s. And crucially, it does little for his economic value. Leading a good young canadian side and being this go to man probably puts him in the shop window more (as is the case with Minnesota). Moreover, he will gain endorsement deals in Canada by playing for us and probably still get the same in the u.s. regardless.

(6) finally, it's true we have no Steve Nash as well. This could have been the role played by Hargreaves now. Unfortunately, he had options that Steve didn't that led to him making an economic decision to play for England, a country he had never even lived in.

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