Steven Vitória

[narduch]

I am not a friend but I do know the people. I would guess if he was a petty as you and called a lawyer about it you would not find it as amusing.

LOL.

Once again, more laughable posting from you.

[Bates]

Are you silly enough to believe that calling someone that name would not get you in trouble if someone actually wanted to call you on it??? Or do you just not believe I am not a friend?

[narduch]

Are you silly enough to believe that calling someone that name would not get you in trouble if someone actually wanted to call you on it??? Or do you just not believe I am not a friend?

I think you are the one being silly.

Nobody is going to sue for libel for calling a traitorous whore a traitorous whore. Even Brian Burke wouldn't go that far.

Edited June 3, 2013 by narduch

[Bates]

All you do by reverting to childish name calling is make yourself look silly. If you just posted your opinion that you are unhappy with his decision and will forever dislike the player because of it, like most here have said, you would be the bigger man .Instead you act like a child and take away from the message. Now go ahead and tell me I should go elsewhere because I don't support Canada and am an idiot for supporting anyone or their decisions. One of the benefits of living in or being from a wonderful Country like Canada is the right to free choice. Not sure how we can celebrate it and then act like you have when someone exercises their rights??

[narduch]

All you do by reverting to childish name calling is make yourself look silly. If you just posted your opinion that you are unhappy with his decision and will forever dislike the player because of it, like most here have said, you would be the bigger man .Instead you act like a child and take away from the message. Now go ahead and tell me I should go elsewhere because I don't support Canada and am an idiot for supporting anyone or their decisions. One of the benefits of living in or being from a wonderful Country like Canada is the right to free choice. Not sure how we can celebrate it and then act like you have when someone exercises their rights??

Having a great country like Canada starts to break down when we start to support people like that. His actions aren't those of a person who is a great builder of a nation.

I find it hard to believe that anyone can call themselves a patriotic Canadian (and a soccer fan) and still support his actions. The two do not go together.

The rest of your post is just bs putting words in my mouth.

If you want to support those kind of people, more power to you, like you said its a free country. Just don't act like you are the bigger man taking the higher ground. You are part of the problem.

[alberta white]

I had no idea your nationality was conditional on how good the sports teams are. That's good to know. Now when I travel, I can identify myself as Canadian during hockey season, English when soccer is on and Indian during cricket season. Hopefully border patrol is as understanding.

I presume that would be ODI and T20 rather than Test Match Cricket? If its the later , I'd stick with the Englishness as it's going to be an entertaining summer.

[Bates]

I never said I supported his actions. What I support are his rights to make that choice. And I also believe it would be a very difficult choice if I had to make it. I do however find your last post very easy to talk about, as you moved away from the name calling.

[Guest GoGreen]

Not to derail thread, but 14 pages on a player who hasn't featured for Canada is the problem. Players are going to make their choices if they choose Canada, support them, if not we should forget about them.

Let's support Canada, not get angry about other internationals.

[narduch]

Let's support Canada, not get angry about other internationals.

A lot of us would like to do that. But every few weeks (months) some douchebag troll feels the need to keep updating us on the goings on of traitors like Vittoria or De Guzman. It never fails.

I honestly wish this thread was moved to the World Forum, where I could ignore it. But even than some jerk will come along and make a new thread in a few weeks, as if we've never heard of this whore or that whore.

Edited June 3, 2013 by narduch

[alberta white]

A lot of this would like to do that. But every few weeks (months) some douchebag troll feels the need to keep updating us on the goings on of traitors like Vittoria or De Guzman. It never fails..

Thus are the Duties of Soccercentral

[Bertuzzi44]

Thus are the Duties of Soccercentral

Or, Julian De Guzman.

[Winnipeg Fury]

Or, Julian De Guzman.

Yes, let's bury this topic/scumbag.

Mods, please move this to the world forum or the garbage heap, whatever you prefer.

[Obinna]

I am with GoGreen on this one. Why do we give a ****? Jonathan is Dutch, Owen is English, Stephen is Portuguese. Who cares? It is not like having all these players would transform our program like we delude ourselves into thinking. The problem Canada has is that we have no league, little soccer culture, and not a lot of money to put into the program. We MAY have been able to get to a World Cup with those players but we would have still been crushed.

In the grand scheme of world football, Stephen is an unknown CB who MAY be a depth option for Portugal at 26 and plays at a tiny club in Portugal. Jonathan is only emerging as a holding midfielder for Holland and isn't even the star of his MID-TABLE English side. Owen was a utility player for England and doesn't even play anymore.

So please. I will start to complain about lost "Canadians" when a Neymar-like talent chooses to play elsewhere. Until then lets focus on our own. This is like Ghanaian fans crying because Boetang plays for Germany. You would never hear that and it shows how much of an inferiority complex we have and it makes us appear as a joke.

Rant over.

[Grizzly]

I am with GoGreen on this one. Why do we give a ****? Jonathan is Dutch, Owen is English, Stephen is Portuguese. Who cares? It is not like having all these players would transform our program like we delude ourselves into thinking. The problem Canada has is that we have no league, little soccer culture, and not a lot of money to put into the program. We MAY have been able to get to a World Cup with those players but we would have still been crushed.

In the grand scheme of world football, Stephen is an unknown CB who MAY be a depth option for Portugal at 26 and plays at a tiny club in Portugal. Jonathan is only emerging as a holding midfielder for Holland and isn't even the star of his MID-TABLE English side. Owen was a utility player for England and doesn't even play anymore.

So please. I will start to complain about lost "Canadians" when a Neymar-like talent chooses to play elsewhere. Until then lets focus on our own. This is like Ghanaian fans crying because Boetang plays for Germany. You would never hear that and it shows how much of an inferiority complex we have and it makes us appear as a joke.

Rant over.

This is so wrong I would almost prefer the posts of people defending them for their mercenary ways. Accepting that your best players are going to leave for other countries is no attitude to have for any football fans. Indeed your whole post screams inferiority complex. Do you think even top nations are not pissed off when players who play for them play for other countries? In Germany for instance many were pissed when some Turkish players who were born and raised in Germany chose to play for Turkey. Not to mention how wrong your assessments are of our traitors. Do you realize how good a player you have to be to even be considered for national teams like Portugal and Holland let alone play? And ********** was not a utility player for England, he was probably their best player in one World Cup. Not too mention he was a star player for Bayern and only failed to live up to his billing at ManU because of serious injuries. I am all for knocking these player's characters but don't post ignorant stuff about their abilities.

[Addona]

This is so wrong I would almost prefer the posts of people defending them for their mercenary ways. Accepting that your best players are going to leave for other countries is no attitude to have for any football fans. Indeed your whole post screams inferiority complex. Do you think even top nations are not pissed off when players who play for them play for other countries? In Germany for instance many were pissed when some Turkish players who were born and raised in Germany chose to play for Turkey. Not to mention how wrong your assessments are of our traitors. Do you realize how good a player you have to be to even be considered for national teams like Portugal and Holland let alone play? And ********** was not a utility player for England, he was probably their best player in one World Cup. Not too mention he was a star player for Bayern and only failed to live up to his billing at ManU because of serious injuries. I am all for knocking these player's characters but don't post ignorant stuff about their abilities.

+1000. Yeah, I'm with you 1000% ... Not sure where Obinna was going with his post, but it doesn't represent anything about how I feel!

[RamR]

I was checking out Keven Aleman's twitter to see his reaction to getting named to the preliminary GC squad (which was very positive I must say, unlike Aird who hasn't even mentioned it). He had some exchanges in Spanish and I popped them into google translate. With all google translate's flaws and some liberal paraphrasing one exchange went like this... upset fan: Why is Keven Aleman playing for Canada at the GC? Canada will never be world powers in soccer, Costa Rica has a better chance of that. Keven Aleman: You never know.

If all "Canadians" who find reasons to convince them that it's ok to turn their back on their nation because the team/program isn't up to their standard had this attitude then cumulatively they could have not only had an astounding immediate impact but they could have had an even greater long term impact on players to come.

[Grizzly]

If anyone has any doubt about how top nations feel about their citizens choosing to play for other countries here are a couple of articles from Germany. I don't have time to translate them but the first one has both German coach Low and DFB sports director Sammer complaining bitterly about the aggressive tactics of the Turkish federation in recruiting Germans of Turkish origins for the national team: http://www.focus.de/sport/fussball/em-2012/nationalmannschaft-loew-und-sammer-kaempfen-um-deutsch-tuerken_aid_571366.html

The second article has a picture gallery of Germans past and present who have played for other nations. Not all of them were good enough for Germany but a few of them were and nontheless they are well aware of who they have lost: http://www.sportal.de/fussball/bilder/in-deutschland-geborene-die-fuer-andere-nationalteams-spielen/manfred-schaefer-wurde-in-ostpreussen-geboren-und-spielte-fuer-australien,14459,1

And if we think some of our traitors are bad, Hamit Altıntop who was born and raised in Germany but plays for Turkey had the gall to criticize Mesut Ozil for selecting the country he was born in, lived most of his life and learned football in. Indeed he even went so far to say he was only doing it for money and was a whore for Germany: "I am a tolerant person and I respect Mesut's path but I cannot stand to support his decision. If he had opted for Turkey, he would not have played at the World Cup and would not be at Real Madrid. It is that simple."

I have often been critical of Germany's treatment of minorities and Turks but on the other side of the coin it is guys like Altintrop who give Turks a bad reputation in Germany.

Regardless, while I can agree that some of the threads for these idiots are way too long and give them more importance than they deserve, any country that is serious about football needs to be concerned that every player should choose it and likewise critical and pissed off at those who betray it. And that goes for both the federation and the fans.

[Guest Brethers]

But it also depends on how you were raised surely. I have 3 nationalities bit feel mostly Canadian. My dad can't see how I do considering that's the one nationality I don't technically have any blood from, but born on Ottawa and lived in barrhaven until I was 10. I have cousins in Canada who have lived there their whole lives but feel more Italian because they live in an Italian community and are raised in a huge Italian family. My stepmom was born in Portugal to only Portuguese parents, she moved to Canada when she was 10 and she's embraced her canadianness loads. It's never as black and white as it seems unfortunately. Hamit altintop may well have been raised in a hugely Turkish family and so he feels more Turkish than German. Same with vittoria, Toronto has a massive Portuguese community and he just feels more in touch with his Portuguese roots

[Addona]

But it also depends on how you were raised surely. I have 3 nationalities bit feel mostly Canadian. My dad can't see how I do considering that's the one nationality I don't technically have any blood from, but born on Ottawa and lived in barrhaven until I was 10. I have cousins in Canada who have lived there their whole lives but feel more Italian because they live in an Italian community and are raised in a huge Italian family. My stepmom was born in Portugal to only Portuguese parents, she moved to Canada when she was 10 and she's embraced her canadianness loads. It's never as black and white as it seems unfortunately. Hamit altintop may well have been raised in a hugely Turkish family and so he feels more Turkish than German. Same with vittoria, Toronto has a massive Portuguese community and he just feels more in touch with his Portuguese roots

Both my parents were born and raised in Italy, but I was born and raised in Canada ... When the WC was on, all my family and friends in Canada cheered for Italy. I don't think there is anything wrong with that, and we certainly all "felt Italian". But refusing to play for Canada is taking it to a whole other level. Perhaps some people did feel more Italian than Canadian, it is just hard to believe that it's not an opportunistic grab if, say, someone decided to play for Italy over Canada in soccer. That is, there are TONS of Italian-Canadians who play on our world junior teams, and Olympic hockey teams .... Funny that none of them ever feel so Italian that they opt to play for the Italian national hockey team.

[RamR]

But it also depends on how you were raised surely. I have 3 nationalities bit feel mostly Canadian. My dad can't see how I do considering that's the one nationality I don't technically have any blood from, but born on Ottawa and lived in barrhaven until I was 10. I have cousins in Canada who have lived there their whole lives but feel more Italian because they live in an Italian community and are raised in a huge Italian family. My stepmom was born in Portugal to only Portuguese parents, she moved to Canada when she was 10 and she's embraced her canadianness loads. It's never as black and white as it seems unfortunately. Hamit altintop may well have been raised in a hugely Turkish family and so he feels more Turkish than German. Same with vittoria, Toronto has a massive Portuguese community and he just feels more in touch with his Portuguese roots

The bolded part is a fantastic thing in Canada... but it shouldn't be one or the other. Being in touch with your roots does not exclude feeling Canadian... it defines being Canadian. It's BECAUSE this can happen while benefiting from living in a stable, safe and affluent country that players like Vitoria have a moral obligation to play for Canada.

[parkingatlamport]

That is, there are TONS of Italian-Canadians who play on our world junior teams, and Olympic hockey teams .... Funny that none of them ever feel so Italian that they opt to play for the Italian national hockey team.

Not that I really want to get into this revolving argument, but half of the Italian National Hockey team is Canadian.

[Addona]

Not that I really want to get into this revolving argument, but half of the Italian National Hockey team is Canadian.

Yes, the ones who aren't good enough for the Canadian hockey team.

Look my point is that, for me personally, if Vitoria or JDG2 (or whoever) said, "I feel more Dutch/Portuguese/Italian than Canadian, and even if Canada were ranked 10th in the world and Holland/Portugal/Italy were ranked 100th, I would still decide to play for Holland/Portugal/Italy", I would respect that a little more, even if I wouldn't agree with it. Now, many players probably would make this sort of statement ... but I just find it tough to believe that they are being truthful when they make it. And part of my evidence for that is the hockey example ... we don't lose players to Italy because they "feel more Italian". If it were really about "feeling more xxx" and not how good/bad our hockey/soccer team is, then don't you think we'd lose a few good players to other countries in hockey?

[BuzzAndSting]

but born on Ottawa and lived in barrhaven until I was 10.

Farrhaven!

I love Chester FC a little more now.

[madmonte]

And right after I watch sportsnet talk in detail about traitors, a further slap in the face as this little gem gets posted online about Vitoria. Have a read, was posted today.

http://www.thestar.com/sports/2007/06/29/portuguese_star_happy_to_play_at_home.html

What a crappy week. I hope Aird turns out to be the bright side, not the nut ripper offer.

[redhat]

And right after I watch sportsnet talk in detail about traitors, a further slap in the face as this little gem gets posted online about Vitoria. Have a read, was posted today.

http://www.thestar.com/sports/2007/06/29/portuguese_star_happy_to_play_at_home.html

What a crappy week. I hope Aird turns out to be the bright side, not the nut ripper offer.

The article was written in 2007 during the U20s, if recall correctly ...