Steven Vitória

[Marc]

Oh, also, am I the only one that is waiting, and hoping that we don't get yet another knife in the back? Like Aleman in a couple years getting first team minutes in Spain and deciding he's Spanish, things, like that? When you start to get used to this treatment, it's sad, but you begin to expect it, too.

There are pros and cons to everything and this con is just a fact of life for a country that has next to no cohesive domestic development system. We are going to have to get used to it.

[zeelaw]

Oh, also, am I the only one that is waiting, and hoping that we don't get yet another knife in the back? Like Aleman in a couple years getting first team minutes in Spain and deciding he's Spanish, things, like that? When you start to get used to this treatment, it's sad, but you begin to expect it, too.

Aleman has no chance with SPain. Surely it's Costa Rica to worry about?

[jpg75]

Aleman has no chance with SPain. Surely it's Costa Rica to worry about?

Aleman wouldn't even be able to switch to Spain when he does become eligible because he already played for us before he had Spanish eligibility. The only other option for him is Costa Rica.

[jogesc2]

His two goals were both penalties though.

Man City should sign him then

[parkingatlamport]

Steven Vitoria's contract with Estoril has ended and he had another remarkable season. He led his team with 11 league goals and was the highest scoring defender in the Portuguese First Division (13 goals including Cup games). He captained newly promoted Estoril to a 5th spot finish and a chance at Europa League. To no ones surprise, he confirmed he will not be returning to his club next season. It is no secret that Vitoria was offered a contract by Benfica over a month ago, but there are other offers from the big Portuguese clubs and abroad.

Unfortunately, the talk of National team has come up and it's not looking good for Canada. Regarding a possible spot on the Portuguese National Team, Vitoria waits patiently and believes his time will come.

[Grizzly]

Fixed your post:

Fortunately, the talk of National team has come up and it's looking promising that he will never play for Canada. Regarding a possible spot on the Portuguese National Team, Vitoria waits patiently and believes his time will come to show once again what a traitorous bastard he is.

[Addona]

^ +1

[shamrock]

Well I don't think you would have to take it personally. It's chicken or egg discussion, if the MNT had something going for it, people like him would maybe tempted to choose their home country. But he's supposed to pick Canada while they don't even take it serious enough to sign a head coach, 6 month after Hart resigned? How do you think things are run in Portugal? The Gold Cup is two months away, there's no coach, no vision, nobody even knows who will play for Canada.

It's a shame though. If you look at players that COULD HAVE played for Canada, you'd have quite the team. And that's promising for the future, now there's some infrastructure in place for young players. So hopefully more players of this calibre will be produced and some of them will choose to play for their home country. Cause dislike him as much as you want, everybody here would have to admit that he would be a serious upgrade to whatever possible backline Miller (or whoever) fields.

[RamR]

Well I don't think you would have to take it personally. It's chicken or egg discussion, if the MNT had something going for it, people like him would maybe tempted to choose their home country. But he's supposed to pick Canada while they don't even take it serious enough to sign a head coach, 6 month after Hart resigned? How do you think things are run in Portugal? The Gold Cup is two months away, there's no coach, no vision, nobody even knows who will play for Canada.

It's a shame though. If you look at players that COULD HAVE played for Canada, you'd have quite the team. And that's promising for the future, now there's some infrastructure in place for young players. So hopefully more players of this calibre will be produced and some of them will choose to play for their home country. Cause dislike him as much as you want, everybody here would have to admit that he would be a serious upgrade to whatever possible backline Miller (or whoever) fields.

I cannot and will never understand how anyone can ever think it should be a choice.

[Bates]

Part of why you can't understand RamR is probably because you will not ever have to consider such a choice.

[El Hombre]

Well I don't think you would have to take it personally. It's chicken or egg discussion, if the MNT had something going for it, people like him would maybe tempted to choose their home country.

I had no idea your nationality was conditional on how good the sports teams are. That's good to know. Now when I travel, I can identify myself as Canadian during hockey season, English when soccer is on and Indian during cricket season. Hopefully border patrol is as understanding.

[RamR]

Part of why you can't understand RamR is probably because you will not ever have to consider such a choice.

To be fair, that has absolutely nothing to do with it. It's a more philosophical question that doesn't require one to be a professional athlete to contemplate. We all face moral decisions in our personal and professional lives and how we deal with those decisions says a lot about us as individuals.

[Califax]

To be fair, that has absolutely nothing to do with it. It's a more philosophical question that doesn't require one to be a professional athlete to contemplate. We all face moral decisions in our personal and professional lives and how we deal with those decisions says a lot about us as individuals.

Yup. These two ^

"The unless you could do it, you can't imagine" argument is rather weak. Even if you accept that he made a decision that he is entitled to as an "athlete", I'm perfectly fine to question his judgement as person, and a Canadian.

So sports aside, he's on opportunistic snake.

[Joe MacCarthy]

I had no idea your nationality was conditional on how good the sports teams are. That's good to know. Now when I travel, I can identify myself as Canadian during hockey season, English when soccer is on and Indian during cricket season. Hopefully border patrol is as understanding.

Praise Allah!

[Joe MacCarthy]

if the MNT had something going for it, people like him would maybe tempted to choose their home country.

I didn't know you could choose your home. The funny thing is how stupid these guys are. It all comes down to financial gain which is what your club team used to be for.

The first Canadian soccer superstar (the Gretzky if you will) is gonna make a ton of endorsement money in Canada. It will be wide open for the first person who has the ability and the profile. It could have been the Whore. But he would always be seen as a foreigner in England so why should they care. To me, a country like England should be embarrassed that they have to poach a "Canadian". It doesn't say much for their player development does it? It's the same reason why Canadians would rather see Cindy Klassen endorsing MacDonalds than the Sedin twins? Canadians still want to see Canadians.

[narduch]

I wouldn't take the opinion of masterBates seriously. He was one of the biggest supporter's of the Whore from Calgary.

I do admire these trolls who want to teach us how the world really works though. Give me a ****ing break.

[Gordon]

I wouldn't take the opinion of masterBates seriously. He was one of the biggest supporter's of the Whore from Calgary.

I do admire these trolls who want to teach us how the world really works though. Give me a ****ing break.

Notwithstanding his opinion on He who must not be named, I thought it was a fair comment generally (though not necessarily fair to RamR specifically). For most people, all but their core values are entirely dependent upon their situation and needs. Dangle enough $ in front of people and there is very little that can not be bought & sold. And for the record Vs, from what I can tell, Bates and I have a contrary life philosophies, so don't let the shared geography get in the way of taking this at face value.

Edited May 27, 2013 by Gordon
clarification that the comment was intended generally

[JDub]

Just to put my 2 cents worth on "choosing" to play for Canada.

I would kill to play on the CMNT. For anyone who waits to make a decision on where to play is a disgrace from the start. Too many players are putting money and immediate results ahead of the future of our program and most of all the pride we all should have in putting on our countries jersey. I am not saying former and current players that have snubbed the national program could not have been used to improved the program but at the same time, SEE YA. If you are going to put YOUR country second to anyone then don't let the door hit you on the way out.

[Miche]

This discussion on the ability of an individual to change nationalities has been ongoing on this board for more than a decade. It is a polar argument and not one that will end soon.

I find a few separate, yet related issues often get lumped together. The issues involve what determines an individual's nationality, whether they should be able to change it, and why they are choosing to play for another country.

I am on the side that changing nationality is acceptable. In my humble opinion: of course you can change your home!

We are born into a country without a choice; what we do with our lives is then all choice, and part of that choice should be to decide where you want to live out your days, where you feel most comfortable. Where we feel comfortable is entirely subjective to the person, and will depend on many factors, including time. Because of this, it is questionable to draw a hard line on birthplace as the only deciding factor in regards to nationality, though it's unanimously the best default option. However, because of the subjectivity of what an individual sees as home, and the laws allowing individuals to change home, we have players who are presented with this choice of who to represent.

If an individual chooses to represent another country because he feels more of a connection to this place in his subjective way, and the pride he hopes to display would be greater in this new country, I can completely understand and have no ill-will. But if the individual chooses this new country for other reasons such as financial gain, well you know what, I also understand this choice, but I'll pout about it and hope he fails. The reasons behind a player's choice, unless explicitly revealed, is speculation. We can be bitter about it, that's fair, but it's their life and their decision.

I just don't like the idea of tying NT eligibility solely to birthplace, as I would prefer players play for the country where they feel the most pride. Even though pride being the deciding factor in a player's decision is increasingly uncommon, my preference is still to avoid removing choice.

[Joe MacCarthy]

I just don't like the idea of tying NT eligibility solely to birthplace, as I would prefer players play for the country where they feel the most pride. Even though pride being the deciding factor in a player's decision is increasingly uncommon, my preference is still to avoid removing choice.

Not birthplace, citizenship. I have no problem with JDG2 aside from his lying and stalling and BS like wearing a Canadian kit. He at least went through the process of becoming a Dutch citizen. The other clods who spend all their life in Canada and suddenly feel "pride" in England/Portugal etc is BS.

You wanna play for another country you have to become a citizen/resident. None of that hokey grandfather Bircham passport poop.

[Redcoatsforever]

Not birthplace, citizenship. I have no problem with JDG2 aside from his lying and stalling and BS like wearing a Canadian kit. He at least went through the process of becoming a Dutch citizen. The other clods who spend all their life in Canada and suddenly feel "pride" in England/Portugal etc is BS.

You wanna play for another country you have to become a citizen/resident. None of that hokey grandfather Bircham passport poop.

Concur. As someone who firmly believes that the only requirement to being Canadian is a desire to actually be one and a willingness to compromise with others on what exactly "being Canadian" is I get a bit irritated at people claiming you should only be able to rep the country of your birth. I know plenty of people born in Bosnia and Serbia who would call themselves Canadian first, not just because they're citizens but because they feel themselves to be Canadians in their hearts. I have no problem with Canadian emigrants who have a new homeland they identify with playing for them, it's the blatant opportunism of guys like Whoregreaves, Vitoria, et al. that gets me.

[Joe MacCarthy]

(1:25 to 2:10) states my opinion nicely

[Bates]

I supported the person that I have known in the past and his family. I was against the silly name that you referred to this person as. Just because you disagree with someone's decision that he was perfectly within his rights to make does not give you the right to use such a profane name for him. I don't know if it was the right or wrong decision by him but it is his right to make that decision. If you don't think it matters financially what National team you play for when contract time arrives then I don't really know what to say to you about that???

And for the record this player has been in Europe since he was around 15 and plans to spend the rest of his life there, I am not sure he is even of any Nationality at this point in life??

I wouldn't take the opinion of masterBates seriously. He was one of the biggest supporter's of the Whore from Calgary.

I do admire these trolls who want to teach us how the world really works though. Give me a ****ing break.

[narduch]

I supported the person that I have known in the past and his family. I was against the silly name that you referred to this person as. Just because you disagree with someone's decision that he was perfectly within his rights to make does not give you the right to use such a profane name for him.

The truth hurts, doesn't it? The nickname fits him perfectly for what he did. If that offends you, too bad.

But its obvious you are biased because you are a friend.

Your explanation that he has no nationality is laughable. Where does he spend his free time when he isn't playing? My guess is it isn't in England.

Edited June 3, 2013 by narduch

[Bates]

I am not a friend but I do know the people. I would guess if he was a petty as you and called a lawyer about it you would not find it as amusing. I don't know that I would have made same decision as him but can easily see how it would be very difficult. I have always found it really ironic how people like you chastise this player for his choices but then off you go to cheer on some "Canadian" players who are visiting our Country for the first time!!! Oh wait their Country's don't want or need them so that is perfectly OK!!!