El Hombre Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 22 minutes ago, Obinna said: The biggest thing that rubs me the wrong way on the issue of duel nationals is that we celebrate those who play for us and demonize those who don't. It is completely hypocritical. Ummm....dude...that's sports fandom. I'm sure all the players on the Honduran national team are really swell guys, but I don't like them because they don't play for my team. Same with the Maple Leafs, the Dallas Cowboys and the Gloucester Hornets (they're the absolute fucking worst). king1010, Red and White and BuzzAndSting 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theaub Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 1 hour ago, Obinna said: You're really grabbing at straws here my friend. Let's realistically look at this: A kid who has been in the NTC for two years goes over to Portugal for a trial with FC PORTO. Gee, don't you think someone at the CSA should have said "hmm, maybe we should keep a closer eye on this kid, who happens to qualify for Portugal"? To me, that is just common sense, if you are properly monitoring potential national team talent, especially at a National Training Centre. It is a complete failure on the CSA's part that they let a player who attended NTC for two years slip out of their hands like that. They are fortunate that Vitoria will play for us after all. The biggest thing that rubs me the wrong way on the issue of duel nationals is that we celebrate those who play for us and demonize those who don't. It is completely hypocritical. Is the point of international soccer to cap-tie players out of fear they will go somewhere else? Canada funded Vitoria's development in the NTC, he went off to Porto and then decided to glory hunt for Portugal and now he's come crawling back as a 30 year old. Victor should be on his knees thanking the lord for being so, uh, fortunate to get this retread. Califax 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Bob Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, Obinna said: The biggest thing that rubs me the wrong way on the issue of duel nationals is that we celebrate those who play for us and demonize those who don't. It is completely hypocritical. I'm literally demonizing a dual national who plays for us right now. Edited January 26, 2016 by Lord Bob Califax 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 When Vitoria was at the NTC he was still a forward, heck Porto didn't want him as a forward either. If he had not been switched to CB at his second trial the guy would be working at a Churrasco Chicken place on Dundas West. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kusch to the Corner Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 3 hours ago, Keegan said: Exactly, he had a choice between Canada and Portugal... he chose Portugal. No ifs, ands or buts. Porto gave him a chance sure, but by the same token the NTC gave him a chance. Maybe we don't/didn't have the same resources but it is what it is. He's with us now but let's not be revisionists. Amen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DigzTFC Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 http://www.thestar.com/sports/2007/06/29/portuguese_star_happy_to_play_at_home.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob.notenboom Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 When players are dual nationals or have a choice of which country to represent for other reasons, and when they were born and raised in Canada, and/or played most of their youth soccer in Canada, then in my opinion they owe Canada a certain amount of loyalty. I don't infuse my position on this with as much emotion as others do, so instead of thinking Vitoria is a traitor and that he can get bent, I'll just not cheer for him quite as loudly. It's my own personal coup de tete (pun intended). Loyalty has to count for something in this world, like hard work and dedication. Grizzly and yomurphy1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obinna Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 (edited) 8 hours ago, El Hombre said: Ummm....dude...that's sports fandom. I'm sure all the players on the Honduran national team are really swell guys, but I don't like them because they don't play for my team. Same with the Maple Leafs, the Dallas Cowboys and the Gloucester Hornets (they're the absolute fucking worst). No, hypocrisy does not have to be a part of sports fandom. There are lots of players I dislike because they don't play for my team. That has nothing to do with being a hypocrite. Nice try. I dislike the Maple Leafs, I dislike the Honduran national team, but this is different. You repeatedly make negative judgements about this man's character (even though you don't know him personally) because he made a decision (10 years ago) to represent another youth team. Again, all I am pointing out is that it's intellectually dishonest (a.k.a. hypocritical) to make the argument that Vitoria is "bad" for wearing the colours of another program, while also holding the opinion that Marcel de Jong or Tesho Akindele are "good" for doing the same thing, simply because they chose to play for Canada in the end (ironically, just like Vitoria now - it just took a long time). 7 hours ago, theaub said: Is the point of international soccer to cap-tie players out of fear they will go somewhere else? Canada funded Vitoria's development in the NTC, he went off to Porto and then decided to glory hunt for Portugal and now he's come crawling back as a 30 year old. Victor should be on his knees thanking the lord for being so, uh, fortunate to get this retread. Canada funded Vitoria's development in the NTC eh? Did you know that in those days players actually had to pay their own way to get to NTC training? At least that's the way it worked for NTC-Atlantic. So yeah, sure this was no big deal for Vitoria since he lived in Toronto where NTC-Ontario is located, but let's not act as if Vitoria owes CSA some sort of reparation here: NTC was always nothing more than a monthly training weekend for elite provincial team players. My friend and teammate who attended in Halifax (under Stephen Hart) said they mostly scrimmaged. You make this idea of him "hunting for glory" sound negative. Who doesn't want to "hunt for glory"? That is called going after your dreams. His dream was to play for Portugal. Portugal have a much higher profile than we do in international soccer. A massive Portuguese club gave him his first break, when nobody in Canada was willing to. I want all Canadian kids to only have eyes for the CMNT too, but our government has been fixated on "multiculturalism" for a long time. It is our gift and our curse as far as soccer is concerned. Perhaps one day this will change when we consistently make the World Cup... 6 hours ago, jpg75 said: When Vitoria was at the NTC he was still a forward, heck Porto didn't want him as a forward either. If he had not been switched to CB at his second trial the guy would be working at a Churrasco Chicken place on Dundas West. This actually makes me laugh, because you gave absolutely zero credit to Porto for making that switch. You're right though, he would be working at Currasco Chicken place. Thank you for proving my point that the CSA did such a poor job. Their ability to identify his potential at NTC was poor - so poor that he would have literally ended up with a career in the food industry. That was great, thank you! 4 hours ago, rob.notenboom said: When players are dual nationals or have a choice of which country to represent for other reasons, and when they were born and raised in Canada, and/or played most of their youth soccer in Canada, then in my opinion they owe Canada a certain amount of loyalty. I don't infuse my position on this with as much emotion as others do, so instead of thinking Vitoria is a traitor and that he can get bent, I'll just not cheer for him quite as loudly. It's my own personal coup de tete (pun intended). Loyalty has to count for something in this world, like hard work and dedication. So does that mean that Arfield, who was born and raised in Scotland, owes Scotland a certain amount of loyalty? Or is it only a one-way street? Players are going to eventually gravitate to which ever program is best for their career - one way or the other. Edited January 27, 2016 by Obinna hamiltonfan, shamrock, Acid-Tone and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Hombre Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 (edited) So..,.tempting...must resist replying...maybe wait until I've...had a lot...more...wine. Like...a lot...more...wine. Edited January 27, 2016 by El Hombre Obinna and Califax 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob.notenboom Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 2 hours ago, Obinna said: So does that mean that Arfield, who was born and raised in Scotland, owes Scotland a certain amount of loyalty? Yes. Lord Bob, Obinna and hamiltonfan 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince193 Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Arfield wants to play for us. That's cool. I don't see why people get so worked up. Scotland isn't calling him and so he has decided that since Canada is interested, he might as well suit up for them. Fair enough. Grizzly, deschamp86, MtlMario and 4 others 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Obinna, Porto does not equal Portugal. Porto gets the credit for making the switch not Portugal. You can't blame the CSA for not identifying a second rate forward. Califax 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Players get attention, club or NT, as their play warrants. The suggestion otherwise, that is 2 hours ago, El Hombre said: So..,.tempting...must resist replying...maybe wait until I've...had a lot...more...wine. Like...a lot...more...wine. I believe you've already used up your annual quota of PUIs (Posting Under the Influence) and it's like what, the 26th of January? P.S. Off topic but do you still have to blow less than 0.08 into "the box" attached to your computer for the keyboard to work or did Jamie finally unhook that? just asking. Olympique_de_Marseille 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamiltonfan Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 1 hour ago, jpg75 said: Obinna, Porto does not equal Portugal. Porto gets the credit for making the switch not Portugal. You can't blame the CSA for not identifying a second rate forward. Sure you can. Obinna nail it minus the Anfield bit, he absolutely owes Scotland loyalty. Yet loyalty can only stretch so far..overlooked by home nation and recognized else where is the common thread Obinna 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Hombre Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 8 hours ago, Cheeta said: P.S. Off topic but do you still have to blow less than 0.08 into "the box" attached to your computer for the keyboard to work or did Jamie finally unhook that? just asking. Couldn't figure out how to unhook it so I've been using my backup computer to post. It's a sweet 486 running Windows 95. Let's see you try to hook up an AlcoMate Breathalyzer to that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Bob Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Arfield is 27 years old and has been in the Scottish national program multiple times for almost a decade. He is in a better position to know whether Scotland really wants him than a recently-converted teenage centre back who just signed his first professional contract and has been out of the Canadian NTC for, like, an hour. Not that I want him, of course, I'm rather hardcore about this sort of thing, but I also wouldn't blame him if he'd rather play for Canada than nobody. Califax 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acid-Tone Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 I don't think anyone would argue with you that Arfield is "in a better position to know whether Scotland really wants him", than Vitoria was. But when comparing those two and their decision, it's essential that you don't leave out the fact that Arfield is not currently living and playing in Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pint Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 I think a comparable would be Emery Welshman for Arfield.... expect Arfield waited til he was much older before making the decision to suit up for another country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acid-Tone Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 My last thoughts on the matter: The fact some of you guys refuse to show any empathy is very frustrating to me. I assure you that life as someone who has duel-citizenship is not always as black and white as you guys make it seem. But I guess "haters gotta hate" sometimes. Obinna, Brethers8, Olympique_de_Marseille and 4 others 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegan Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 58 minutes ago, pint said: I think a comparable would be Emery Welshman for Arfield.... expect Arfield waited til he was much older before making the decision to suit up for another country. Yea Welshman definitely jumped ship far too early. 23 years old... that would be like Cristante playing for us in 2018 and Emery was definitely closer to our MNT than Cristante is to Italy's. Now that Emery is with RSL he would have probably been at our current camp though he would still be a few spots away from a true "A" call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pint Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 40 minutes ago, Keegan said: Yea Welshman definitely jumped ship far too early. 23 years old... that would be like Cristante playing for us in 2018 and Emery was definitely closer to our MNT than Cristante is to Italy's. Now that Emery is with RSL he would have probably been at our current camp though he would still be a few spots away from a true "A" call. Ya the one difference may have been that going and playing internationally would be his way to stay in the game and get noticed. I forget the exact timeline but i think RSL picked him up for their USL squad after he went and scored a couple goals internationally (i'm sure someone will correct me if i'm wrong) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 On 2016-01-27 at 5:34 PM, Obinna said: So does that mean that Arfield, who was born and raised in Scotland, owes Scotland a certain amount of loyalty? Or is it only a one-way street? Of course it is only a one-way street! Choosing Canada is forever and always the right thing to do and choosing anywhere else is always treason. In the same way our lads are never offside, that was never a yellow/red card and clearly the ball went over the line. Sheesh, why is this so hard to explain to soccer supporters? Red and White 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unnamed Trialist Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 I have to admit some of the explanations of Vitoria's timeline with Portugal has softened my stance on him a bit. Still, since I really am not sure he can contribute in any decisive way, I prefer to remain reticent about having him with us and would prefer someone else to triumph with the Nats at the back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olympique_de_Marseille Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 It's late in the day on January 31st and no news about any clubs signing him. It seems likely he will be playing in MLS or for Unattached FC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fussball_eh Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 19 hours ago, Olympique_de_Marseille said: It's late in the day on January 31st and no news about any clubs signing him. It seems likely he will be playing in MLS or for Unattached FC. Hopefully not Unattached FC, as we don't have too many good players there currently (which is obviously a good thing). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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