BuzzAndSting Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 Just now, Obinna said: Okay got it. So Vitoria was never ever approached by Canada at any level until Mitchell "faxed" FC Porto with a request that he play for Canada at the under 20 World Cup. Then, from what we can tell, Vitoria declines. What was the timeline for him accepting a Portugal call? That article does not clarify whether or not Vitoria was already involved with Portugal or not. It is possible that Vitoria was already on the Portugal radar, or even involved in their camp, at the time of Mitchell's request to Porto. Does anyone have evidence of the exact sequence of events? What does it matter? He was eligible to play for Canada, he was called to a camp, he declined so he could play for Portugal. If you want to keep searching for timelines and circumstances that somehow justify him choosing Portugal over Canada than there's no point in having a conversation. El Hombre 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olympique_de_Marseille Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 "To have all this happen and then in my hometown it's something really special for me and my family," http://www.thestar.com/sports/2007/06/29/portuguese_star_happy_to_play_at_home.html Boy, with all the games we've played at BMO since 2007, he has really missed out on plenty of special moments for him and his family. BuzzAndSting and marauder01 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 21 minutes ago, Benjamin Massey said: At least Jonathan moved to the Netherlands and stuck with it. He didn't go "oh well the Dutch don't want me I'm Canadian again" for that period of quite a few years when it looked like he'd be out of their plans. He waited for them, and was loyal to them, and stuck to his guns. So you hate Hoilett? And tbh i would rather see them come back then play for another country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Bob Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 Hoilett does bother me, yes. He didn't actually play for Jamaica, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 1 minute ago, Benjamin Massey said: Hoilett does bother me, yes. He didn't actually play for Jamaica, though. Yea but we wanted to play for England too but since he wasn't good enough he came back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuzzAndSting Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 1 minute ago, canta15 said: So you hate Hoilett? And tbh i would rather see them come back then play for another country. For me Hoilett is different. He said he was trying to establish a career and I believe him. I hate that it took him 5 years for him to make his decision but he didn't turn out for another country and then choose us second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Bob Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 1 minute ago, canta15 said: Yea but we wanted to play for England too but since he wasn't good enough he came back Well, it's a bit more complicated than that but yeah. Like I said, he does bother me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob.notenboom Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 (edited) I'm admittedly conflicted about several of our new players. But that aside, if one of the things people judge the CSA on is getting players with multiple options to commit to Canada, they are currently on fire like they never have been before. Edited January 23, 2016 by rob.notenboom Red and White and Obinna 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obinna Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 (edited) He was eligible and he declined to play for Portugal, so yes in that respect it is irrelevant. However, separating fact from fiction is something I am interested in - that is why I am searching for timelines. If we are all clear on exactly how it went down, it would pave the way for some more informed dialog moving forward. So, while he made his decision regardless, it would be interesting to discover definitively whether or not Vitoria actually received a Portugal call before a Canadian one. If so, perhaps it would temper some of the angst against him. Regardless though, this is not a free pass for Vitoria from me. I don't believe he requires a pass. Like I said, he was entirely in his right to choose Portugal at the time. Poor career decision but understandable. I strongly disagree with the opinion that he is a bad person because he never played for Canada in 2007. I also strongly disagree he owes anyone an apology, like @Benjamin Massey suggests. Like I said, he made a decision for himself, so there is nothing for him to apologize for. Edited January 22, 2016 by Obinna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obinna Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 7 minutes ago, Olympique_de_Marseille said: "To have all this happen and then in my hometown it's something really special for me and my family," http://www.thestar.com/sports/2007/06/29/portuguese_star_happy_to_play_at_home.html Boy, with all the games we've played at BMO since 2007, he has really missed out on plenty of special moments for him and his family. Absolutely. A lot of time wasted for sure. It is his loss and he made his decision at the end of the day he lives with it. He is fortunate that the door wasn't closed on him from international football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuzzAndSting Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 4 minutes ago, Obinna said: He was eligible and he declined to play for Portugal, so yes in that respect it is irrelevant. However, separating fact from fiction is something I am interested in - that is why I am searching for timelines. If we are all clear on exactly how it went down, it would pave the way for some more informed dialog moving forward. So, while he made his decision regardless, it would be interesting to discover definitively whether or not Vitoria actually received a Portugal call before a Canadian one. If so, perhaps it would temper some of the angst against him. Regardless though, this is not a free pass for Vitoria from me. I don't believe he deserves a pass. Like I said, he was entirely in his right to choose Portugal at the time. Poor career decision but understandable. I strongly disagree with the opinion that he is a bad person because he never played for Canada in 2007. I also strongly disagree he owes anyone an apology, like @Benjamin Massey suggests. Like I said, he made a decision for himself, so there is nothing for him to apologize for. What could be considered fiction? Mostly what I see in this thread are facts that are public knowledge, from the man directly or from articles about him, which he presumably gave his permission to be published. The stuff about him being a a bad room guy in Philly I put no stock into. There's no way we'll ever know the an entire accurate timeline from stem to stern in detail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obinna Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 (edited) 9 minutes ago, BuzzAndSting said: What could be considered fiction? Mostly what I see in this thread are facts that are public knowledge, from the man directly or from articles about him, which he presumably gave his permission to be published. The stuff about him being a a bad room guy in Philly I put no stock into. There's no way we'll ever know the an entire accurate timeline from stem to stern in detail. Well, at least myself and one other person were under the impression that he accepted a call from Portugal a few months before. That may be fiction or it may be fact, I still don't know. I just wanted to set the record straight, but that might be too difficult for us to discern, as you say. Shifting gears a bit though, I do think that Vitoria can help us. You mentioned he may be 4 or 5 in the CB depth chart, but that is not insignificant. We never know how severally our depth will be tested. For a comparison, the USMNT centre back depth chart currently goes something like this (in my opinon): Cameron, Beisler, Brooks, Gonzalez, Alvarado, Maizga, Evans etc... Like the USA, the position of those guys in the depth chart is always in flux based on form. It is the same for us, with Straith and Jakovic being the favourites at the moment. Another guy in the mix is a good thing, if he is on board and committed. Edited January 22, 2016 by Obinna BearcatSA 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuzzAndSting Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 Just now, Obinna said: Well, at least myself and one other person were under the impression that he accepted a call from Portugal a few months before. That may be fiction or it may be fact, I still don't know. Shifting gears a bit though, I do think that Vitoria can help us. You mentioned he may be 4 or 5 in the CB depth chart, but that is not insignificant. We never know how severally our depth will be tested. For a comparison, the USMNT centre back depth chart currently goes something like this (in my opinon): Cameron, Beisler, Brooks, Gonzalez, Alvarado, Maizga, Evans etc... Like the USA, the position of those guys in the depth chart is always in flux based on form. It is the same for us, with Straith and Jakovic being the favourites at the moment. Another guy in the mix is a good thing, if he is on board and committed. Very true about depth. As hard as I've been on him the last few posts and regardless of whether I want him on the team, he's currently on the team and when he puts on the jersey I'll support him. It will be interesting to see where he ends up club wise. Obinna and Olympique_de_Marseille 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toontownman Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 I wont wade into any debate regarding the past. I only know what I have read here and about the internet. At the end of the day like Mserson says, when he pulls on the Canada jersey I will be fully behind him. Its up to him to justify wearing it. If there are any worries about him being a disruptive influence I can't see him being around in the National set up long, ask Tiebert and Osorio. We are starting to gain some nice depth at CB: Jakovic, Straith, Hainault, Henry, Edgar, Lefevre, Vitoria, Ouimette, Roberts, James, Gasparotto and Trafford to name just a few. A lot of options and different types of player in there. With the momentum of recruitment their still might be hope on a couple of other outsiders coming on board too. Desperate for a RB to breakout though. Obinna 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olympique_de_Marseille Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 27 minutes ago, BuzzAndSting said: It will be interesting to see where he ends up club wise. Going into a camp like this makes me think he will end up in MLS again; not just MLS but a Canadian club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuzzAndSting Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 Just now, Olympique_de_Marseille said: Going into a camp like this makes me think he will end up in MLS again; not just MLS but a Canadian club. I saw that posted earlier today, what's the reasoning? He's a dual citizen so he's always qualified as a domestic in Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toontownman Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 (edited) *doh. Sure he will have options in MLS either side of the border. Edited January 23, 2016 by toontownman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shermanator Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 I just can't get behind the Vitoria call up. To me, we should want no part of a Benfica reject who gave Canada the middle finger 9 years ago because he thought he was too good for our national team. I would love to see him rot on the bench in the friendly and see Henry, Lefevre and Roberts see the pitch in his place. But I just know he'll get the start, and that pisses me off. If he improves our national team, I can be swayed from pissed off about Vitoria to indifference, but there will be no cheering for the guy from this openly-Canadian supporter. Cheeta 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olympique_de_Marseille Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 (edited) 35 minutes ago, BuzzAndSting said: I saw that posted earlier today, what's the reasoning? He's a dual citizen so he's always qualified as a domestic in Canada. Ya, I posted that yesterday in this thread; it's just a gut feeling based on the timing of his call up. He must have known his chances of a Portugal call were close to non-existent back in August. He could have tried to join the CanMNT for the September games, or the Ghana game in October or even tried for November after we got Hoilett. http://www.mlsplayers.org/images/July%252015,%25202015%2520Salary%2520Information%2520-%2520By%2520Club.pdf Says he was making 400k with Philly. He played well but did not live up to "400k level" expectations. Will Johnson was making less at under 335k! His stock has fallen so if he was signed for 200k by a Canadian MLS club I think he would be a good buy because he'd be a domestic too. Now that he's a "Canadian International" it would be much better for PR. Remember the PR problem when Hoilett was only training with TFC in June 2013? http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/hoilett-still-non-committal-on-canada/ Edited January 23, 2016 by Olympique_de_Marseille BuzzAndSting 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuzzAndSting Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 1 hour ago, Olympique_de_Marseille said: Ya, I posted that yesterday in this thread; it's just a gut feeling based on the timing of his call up. He must have known his chances of a Portugal call were close to non-existent back in August. He could have tried to join the CanMNT for the September games, or the Ghana game in October or even tried for November after we got Hoilett. http://www.mlsplayers.org/images/July%252015,%25202015%2520Salary%2520Information%2520-%2520By%2520Club.pdf Says he was making 400k with Philly. He played well but did not live up to "400k level" expectations. Will Johnson was making less at under 335k! His stock has fallen so if he was signed for 200k by a Canadian MLS club I think he would be a good buy because he'd be a domestic too. Now that he's a "Canadian International" it would be much better for PR. Remember the PR problem when Hoilett was only training with TFC in June 2013? http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/hoilett-still-non-committal-on-canada/ Makes sense, thanks for the explanation Ben. Olympique_de_Marseille 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unnamed Trialist Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 Since facts are so iffy, I use my nose or intuition on this, sorry folks: Vitoria has never smelled right, we are not just making this up. Of all of them he is perhaps the one I find most distasteful, and I honestly hope we can do without him and succeed without having to have him around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olympique_de_Marseille Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 (edited) 14 minutes ago, BuzzAndSting said: Makes sense, thanks for the explanation Ben. Oh, one more thing. The twitter rumour the other day about him mutually agreeing with Benfica to end his contract makes it more likely he will be resigned at a lower salary and that he has more choice. That's what makes all of this possible. The transfer window in Portugal closes at the end of this month and Benfica have already loaned out 2 players (including Cristante). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Portuguese_football_transfers_winter_2015–16 They don't seem the type of club to leave things to the last day. Edited January 23, 2016 by Olympique_de_Marseille Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oranje Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 If he impresses against the States and gets the call for Mexico, somehow reaches the field and scores the go-ahead goal in Vancouver, will bygones be bygones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuzzAndSting Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 1 hour ago, Oranje said: If he impresses against the States and gets the call for Mexico, somehow reaches the field and scores the go-ahead goal in Vancouver, will bygones be bygones? For me bygones are bygones (?), he's now part of the set up, accept it and move on. I don't hold any anger over this, it is after all a game. Obinna, king1010, marauder01 and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oranje Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 2 minutes ago, BuzzAndSting said: For me bygones are bygones (?), he's now part of the set up, accept it and move on. I don't hold any anger over this, it is after all a game. I figured as much by reading your previous posts haha, it was more directed at The Lord et al. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now