Lord Bob Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 If a real account has a question to me I would be glad to answer. I have answered similar questions before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obinna Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 6 minutes ago, El Hombre said: Y'know what, you're right. Everybody is wonderful. I hope all games end in ties so that no one gets discouraged. Let's expand the World Cup to be 200 teams because all the players are unique snowflakes and they all deserve to get to play in the big game. Let's all hug. That's all you could come up with? You're certainly off your game today my friend! I guess you're still fuming lol In all seriousness though, come on guys. I understand that Mr. Vitoria hurt your feelings back in 2007, but that was nearly a decade ago. It's time to move on. king1010 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuzzAndSting Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 Just now, Obinna said: That's all you could come up with? You're certainly off your game today my friend! I guess you're still fuming lol In all seriousness though, come on guys. I understand that Mr. Vitoria hurt your feelings back in 2007, but that was nearly a decade ago. It's time to move on. Here's my opinion. I've forgiven him. I did a long time ago. I've moved on. I just don't see why we need him on the team. He doesn't bring anything to the table in my opinion except a little more depth. Where does he sit on our depth chart realistically? 4th? 5th? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Bob Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 3 minutes ago, Obinna said: In all seriousness though, come on guys. I understand that Mr. Vitoria hurt your feelings back in 2007, but that was nearly a decade ago. It's time to move on. Why? What apology has he given, what contrition has he shown, what sign has there been that this is anything other than a man accepting he'll never play for Portugal? Why would you forgive someone who does not regret? BuzzAndSting 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obinna Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 17 minutes ago, Obinna said: Serious question: In 2007, did Vitoria turn the CSA down in favour of Portugal? Any takers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuzzAndSting Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 2 minutes ago, Obinna said: Any takers? Yes he did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obinna Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Benjamin Massey said: Why? What apology has he given, what contrition has he shown, what sign has there been that this is anything other than a man accepting he'll never play for Portugal? Why would you forgive someone who does not regret? Why should he apologize to anyone? It was a decision he made for himself. It does not require an apology. I don't apologize to BMO because I chose to do my banking at TD. What sign has there been that this is anything other than a man accepting he'll never play for Portugal? There has been no sign because that is exactly what has happened. Is the reality of the situation more clear? Edited January 22, 2016 by Obinna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 5 minutes ago, Obinna said: Any takers? I doubt the CSA wouldn't invite a guy who was able to make the Portugal u20 team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obinna Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 Just now, canta15 said: I doubt the CSA wouldn't invite a guy who was able to make the Portugal u20 team. Are you sure? I believe I read somewhere that he actually wasn't invited to play with Canada. He was then picked by Portugal and that is when everyone lost their shit. I could be making that up so I am looking for clarification from someone who knows the facts around that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acid-Tone Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 As I remember it, he was called into the Portuguese U20 team months before the CSA ever reached out to him. He was playing in Portugal, for FC Porto's youth team at the time. jordan and Obinna 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masster Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 29 minutes ago, Obinna said: Serious question: In 2007, did Vitoria turn the CSA down in favour of Portugal? Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuzzAndSting Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 Just now, Obinna said: Are you sure? I believe I read somewhere that he actually wasn't invited to play with Canada. He was then picked by Portugal and that is when everyone lost their shit. I could be making that up so I am looking for clarification from someone who knows the facts around that. You are making it up. Here's an article from 2007 with a detailed interview. Seeing as there's no quotes from anyone from CSA we can assume that all the details came from Vitoria. It says that his club was contacted by Dale Mitchell about him playing for Canada and that he "chose to play for Portugal." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obinna Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 (edited) 9 minutes ago, BuzzAndSting said: Yes he did. Do you recall what that looked like? I am wondering, what were the circumstances before he declined a call from Dale Mitchell? Was he already involved with the Portugal set up? Did the CSA wait until the U-20 level before they first identified Vitoria? Edited January 22, 2016 by Obinna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Bob Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 8 minutes ago, Obinna said: Why should he apologize to anyone? It was a decision he made for himself. It does not require an apology. I don't apologize to BMO because I chose to do my banking at TD. What sign has there been that this is anything other than a man accepting he'll never play for Portugal? There has been no sign because that is exactly what has happened. Is the reality of the situation more clear? Oh, we understood the reality of the situation perfectly. He looked out for himself, fucked his country for personal gain, didn't even have the basic moral fibre to regret it or the elementary dignity to stick to his decision, and I will call him a piece of shit because that's exactly what he is. A_Gagne and Grizzly 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obinna Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 3 minutes ago, Acid-Tone said: As I remember it, he was called into the Portuguese U20 team months before the CSA ever reached out to him. He was playing in Portugal, for FC Porto's youth team at the time. THIS is what I recall as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuzzAndSting Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 1 minute ago, Obinna said: Do you recall what that looked like? What were the circumstances before he declined a call from Dale Mitchell? Was he already involved with the Portugal set up? Did the CSA wait until the U-20 level before they first identified Vitoria? Read the article I linked to. He left Canada at 18, said he was never approached by the "National Team" while living in Canada, Dale Mitchell contacted Porto about him playing for Canada, he "chose to play for Portugal." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masster Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 Just now, Obinna said: THIS is what I recall as well. Not I. I recall another article where he complained that nobody paid attention to him until he went to Porto. The CSA reached out when he was there, but he said no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuzzAndSting Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 Just now, masster said: Not I. I recall another article where he complained that nobody paid attention to him until he went to Porto. The CSA reached out when he was there, but he said no. Exactly. And I'm tired of people giving players a pass for this. It's bull shit that guys like Vitoria, Hargreaves and now Chris Twardek claim that because they weren't identified at 15, 16, 17 or 18 than there's something wrong with the CSA. Maybe they didn't develop into players worthy of identification until they were late teens. It's an excuse to justify their actions. Lord Bob, shermanator, canucklefan and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 (edited) On 1/22/2016 at 5:21 PM, Benjamin Massey said: Oh, we understood the reality of the situation perfectly. He looked out for himself, fucked his country for personal gain, didn't even have the basic moral fibre to regret it or the elementary dignity to stick to his decision, and I will call him a piece of shit because that's exactly what he is. . Edited October 14, 2020 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canucklefan Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 2 minutes ago, BuzzAndSting said: Exactly. And I'm tired of people giving players a pass for this. It's bull shit that guys like Vitoria, Hargreaves and now Chris Twardek claim that because they weren't identified at 15, 16, 17 or 18 than there's something wrong with the CSA. Maybe they didn't develop into players worthy of identification until they were late teens. It's an excuse to justify their actions. I'm usually in favour of bring the players that refused to represent us, because it is good for the program, but I have particularly a problem in this case because of the circumstances in which Vitoria represented Portugal. And + 1 to the part "I'm tired of people giving players a pass for this". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Bob Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 4 minutes ago, canta15 said: Like Julian's piece of shit brother. At least Jonathan moved to the Netherlands and stuck with it. He didn't go "oh well the Dutch don't want me I'm Canadian again" for that period of quite a few years when it looked like he'd be out of their plans. He waited for them, and was loyal to them, and stuck to his guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olympique_de_Marseille Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 1 minute ago, Benjamin Massey said: At least Jonathan moved to the Netherlands and stuck with it. He didn't go "oh well the Dutch don't want me I'm Canadian again" for that period of quite a few years when it looked like he'd be out of their plans. He waited for them, and was loyal to them, and stuck to his guns. Well, his brother said he would have jumped back to us, had we made the Hex. marauder01 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Bob Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 Just now, Olympique_de_Marseille said: Well, his brother said he would have jumped back to us, had we made the Hex. His brother says a lot of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olympique_de_Marseille Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 3 minutes ago, Benjamin Massey said: His brother says a lot of things. http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2014-world-cup/jonathan-de-guzman-canada-david-hoilett/ “He will be there. I can put my life on that, if we make it to the next round,” Julian de Guzman said. “He will be here. He says it. He knows it now.” He seemed pretty sure. I've never been one to think Julian said random things. Never felt he was bullshitting us as fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obinna Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 (edited) 29 minutes ago, BuzzAndSting said: Read the article I linked to. He left Canada at 18, said he was never approached by the "National Team" while living in Canada, Dale Mitchell contacted Porto about him playing for Canada, he "chose to play for Portugal." Okay got it. So Vitoria was never ever approached by Canada at any level until Mitchell "faxed" FC Porto with a request that he play for Canada at the under 20 World Cup. Then, from what we can tell, Vitoria declines. What was the timeline for him accepting a Portugal call? That article does not clarify whether or not Vitoria was already involved with Portugal or not. It is possible that Vitoria was already on the Portugal radar, or even involved in their camp, at the time of Mitchell's request to Porto. Does anyone have evidence of the exact sequence of events? The other thing @BuzzAndSting, is that the CSA never even noticed Vitoria until he joined FC Porto, and even then it was by fax. That would mean he was likely unidentified for several years. No provincial team or no NTC. Not exactly how you win a guy over with multiple options. He's ignored in his home country, then Portugal recognizes his potential and then Canada only comes calling at the final hour? I can understand why he decided to play for Portugal, if that's indeed how it played out. Regardless, the good thing is that we have improved, and things have come around full circle with him joining up with the CMNT now. Ironic for sure! Edited January 22, 2016 by Obinna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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