finchster Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 This is the kind of player we can say no to. However, depth is never a bad thing. Everyone was head overheals when Judas thought about comming back, now all the venom for this guy? I don't care what the outcome is of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_Gagne Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 Agree with those that say there eyes roll and stomach turn when they here this kind of "yeah, I would consider playing for crap", and think it's part of a strategy to get himself back on the Portugal radar. At the same time however, winning is the ultimate goal and if he was willing to represent Canada we would be lossing nothing and stand to potentially gain a lot by playing. That's my two bits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Bob Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 This is the kind of player we can say no to. However, depth is never a bad thing. Everyone was head overheals when Judas thought about comming back, now all the venom for this guy? I don't care what the outcome is of this. Speak for yourself. Do we really want these guys? Do we have no dignity? At long last, do we really have no dignity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finchster Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 (edited) Speak for yourself. Do we really want these guys? Do we have no dignity? At long last, do we really have no dignity? Personally I would like to say no to him and every other traitor. However I don't blame hart trying to explore anyway to make us better and give us some depth. Whatever hart and the CSA decide I will accept. While I won't be happy if he does play for us, If he plays his heart out fans will forgive eventuality I won't forgive you Ben for not coming to Toronto to see the game tomorrow haha Edited September 7, 2012 by finchster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmonte Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 (edited) Play for Canada, because we have neither pride nor shame. We will always come crawling up to you no matter how many times you step on us. Surely being docile little bovines for a player as mediocre as Vitoria will just increase the contempt decent players feel for us, and cause them to know "well, no matter how many times I **** on these guys they'll welcome me back." I'm kinda with you on this, man. If you read comments from the article on the front page though, his cousin posted and is very much insinuating that it was more Canada that thumbed our nose at Vitoria playing for us. Not sure if that will influence anyone's opinion or what? Edited September 7, 2012 by madmonte Adding more info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadasBest Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 At this stage of qualifying it is pointless to talk about anyone else other than the committed players we have. As far as I'm concerned Hoillett, Jono, Vitoria, any others are out of the picture until qualifying for 2018. Give them the shot to come out to camp in 2015 and if they don't come then move on. The guys we have on this team have been with us since the beginning of this qualifying round, and they are the ones who are going to get us to Brazil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe MacCarthy Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 Do we really want these guys? Do we have no dignity? At long last, do we really have no dignity?Are you insulting me? Oops sorry I thought you said decency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Hombre Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 I'm kinda with you on this, man. If you read comments from the article on the front page though, his cousin posted and is very much insinuating that it was more Canada that thumbed our nose at Vitoria playing for us. Not sure if that will influence anyone's opinion or what? They always say that though. That's because they think Canada's program is no good, so they should be able to walk onto any team and immediately be named captain. Their ego can't take the fact that we don't bend over backwards to accomodate them. Again, screw him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe MacCarthy Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 I read this paragraph in an article on PK Subban and wondered why some soccer players in Canada don't feel this way towards the NT. In order to understand why contract-free P.K. isn't interested in entertaining offers from other teams, rich teams that may have a better shot at a championship than the Habs, who finished dead last in the East and made a mess of 2011-12, you need to hear him tell it. "I see greatness in that organization every day when I go to the rink. I see opportunity. I see an opportunity to win, to bring a championship back to that team. That city is so hungry for another Stanley Cup. And when I look around the dressing room, I see a number of guys that can do it, that want to do it. And I think that my influence on that team can bring a Stanley Cup back to that city," Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 Their ego can't take the fact that we don't bend over backwards to accomodate them. There is a big difference between not bending over backwards and making no effort at all. Clearly we are not getting the full story. Was he approached to play for Canada at the U20 tournament or not? If he was not, then we can have no complaints if he accepted the offer he had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonovision Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 ^ I think "no complaints" is laying it on a bit thick. Its not about "accepting offers" from the array of choices before you. It's about playing for the country you're from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul-collins Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 Is he changing his name to "Victoria" to fit this thread title? That's pretty hard-core. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Hombre Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 There is a big difference between not bending over backwards and making no effort at all. Clearly we are not getting the full story. Was he approached to play for Canada at the U20 tournament or not? If he was not, then we can have no complaints if he accepted the offer he had. I remember that we tried to bring him in for our U20 team for that tournament specifically. That's why it was such a slap in the face to see "Steven" lining up for Portugal at BMO. Maybe he was passed over for our U17 team, which are the kinds of excuses that guys like these like to latch on to to explain away how Canada turned their backs on them. It's horse****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 Its not about "accepting offers" from the array of choices before you. But that assumes he had a choice. If he was not invited, and took the only offer on the table I do not see how there is a case. Now, if he did receive an invitation to play (as El Hombre is suggesting) then I will be happy spit lots of venom in his direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GoGreen Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 Agree with those that say there eyes roll and stomach turn when they here this kind of "yeah, I would consider playing for crap", and think it's part of a strategy to get himself back on the Portugal radar. At the same time however, winning is the ultimate goal and if he was willing to represent Canada we would be lossing nothing and stand to potentially gain a lot by playing. That's my two bits. I disagree. We do have something to lose. If the players previously mentioned in this thread committed to Canada now and in the past we may have already made it to a WC or achieved better in Gold Cups. But, because players with dual nationality feel as if they can come back to Canada whenever all other options are exhausted.. the trend continues, we lose out on potential success with them in the squad. Add hoilett, jdg2, vitoria, begovic etc. and we may have an additional gold cup and world cup appearance. just my 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villus Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 I disagree. We do have something to lose. If the players previously mentioned in this thread committed to Canada now and in the past we may have already made it to a WC or achieved better in Gold Cups. But, because players with dual nationality feel as if they can come back to Canada whenever all other options are exhausted.. the trend continues, we lose out on potential success with them in the squad. Add hoilett, jdg2, vitoria, begovic etc. and we may have an additional gold cup and world cup appearance. just my 2 cents. That may be a trend going forward but when Vitoria and JDG2 chose to represent other countries the rules were no turning back. Its only recently that the rules have been opened up so youth players are eligible to switch if they have'nt represented the full senior squads. Also with different coaches going forward its going to be hard to have a comprehensive strategy. I'm torn on the subject but I think at this point the most important factor for our program is to get to a world cup, and IMO that means we have to maybe bite the bullet and accept some guys that will help us achieve that goal even if we don't like it. If we get to a World Cup that will be the biggest push and deterrent towards having our best players representing us, so in a way if we take back some of the guys who have turned their backs who can help us on the field they are in fact helping to avoid further players not repping us in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GoGreen Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 That may be a trend going forward but when Vitoria and JDG2 chose to represent other countries the rules were no turning back. Its only recently that the rules have been opened up so youth players are eligible to switch if they have'nt represented the full senior squads. Also with different coaches going forward its going to be hard to have a comprehensive strategy. I'm torn on the subject but I think at this point the most important factor for our program is to get to a world cup, and IMO that means we have to maybe bite the bullet and accept some guys that will help us achieve that goal even if we don't like it. If we get to a World Cup that will be the biggest push and deterrent towards having our best players representing us, so in a way if we take back some of the guys who have turned their backs who can help us on the field they are in fact helping to avoid further players not repping us in the future. The rules have been in place for some time now, yet no final decisions just a lot of press releases about options being explored, and playing the wait and see game, which I have no problem with for these players as individuals, but as a fan these players are either going to commit or not, if serious they will, if not, they'll give us more of the same. This is not directed to anyone individually, but as a Canadian soccer fan I get frustrated with fellow fans hanging on to the words of players and looking for hidden meanings like we are begging for these players to suit up. Win or lose, the national team will always be here, so let's support the guys that do show up.* If Vitoria wants to play for Canada and we are interested in him, the only news worthy article I want to read is "Vitoria ready to wear the Canadian strip" Sort out all of the other business in the background.* I understand there's more to it, but at the end of the day they are not wearing the Canadian shirt. Clearly Canada is not a first option for them and they are exploring, nothing wrong with that but as fans we need to stop getting excited and being welcoming of players that are not willing to get us to where we want to get to or have done nothing for the program until they do.* We want players to commit yet we promote and accept actions to the contrary.* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmonte Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 You know, after reading a little more about this guy...born to Portuguese immigrants in Toronto...moved back to Portugal very young...been in Portugal ever since...I was starting to wonder if he would even know english or french? And here I am wondering if I should actually be upset that he chose to represent Portugal instead of his nation of birth? I mean I know we have others like that on our roster, I just am hopeful that in a few years our development will be to the point where we don't even have to consider guys who are canadian practically only by technicality...or maybe I should say only people that truly want to be here and actually love Canada, so I don't leave out kids that immigrated at a young, or teen age, that truly love this country. If I'm missing something about Steven Vitoria in that regard, forgive me, it just didn't appear that way reading about him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DigzTFC Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 http://www.cansoc.org/showthread.php?31397-Fro-Those-Who-Want-to-Puke-Story-on-Steven-Vitoria Born, raised and played in Canada until he was about 18. Didn't get called to the national team. He was a forward but OSA coaches wanted him to become a defender. His father is the unofficial Portuguese flag bearer in Toronto, being the owner of a prominent community Portuguese publication. He signed with Porto and was called up to the Portuguese U-20 team that played in Canada in 2006. He has been loaned out from Porto for a long time and has just now at 25 got back to Portuguese 1st division with Estroli. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G.D._Estoril_Praia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_de_Sousa_Vit%C3%B3ria From my perspective, his father's influence was a large part of his decision and it was made for him. However, it was really bad optics during the tournament to have a player do this in his home town. He didn't play and has not had any impact for any level of international competition for the Portuguese. Unless he becomes a revelation in Portugal this season, he will, in my estimation, not be part of the Portuguese set-up (ever). The question remains is he good enough to play for Canada. My two cents: If you don't have a problem with Canada doing the "hide-the-ball trick" during the Panama game, which essentially killed the extra time, you shouldn't have a problem with players who previously spurned Canada coming back into the fold. My logic follows that the CMNT needs to do whatever it can to improve its competitiveness. While it upsets me that players turn their back on Canada, I feel that if they're capable to returning Canada to the World Cup then its worth it. But that may not necessarily be the case with Vitoria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nazzer Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 I keep reading the expression (paraphrasing here) "I can't wait until the day when we have enough depth to not have to want guys like this" referring to Vitoria, De guz and hoilett. Well, accepting or not accepting them back won't change our eventual increased production of players (which will come from the academies) so why not take them back. Even if we decide to not start any of these guys I'd rather have a bench with them than a bench with the guys we currently have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pulsar Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 I read this paragraph in an article on PK Subban and wondered why some soccer players in Canada don't feel this way towards the NT. In order to understand why contract-free P.K. isn't interested in entertaining offers from other teams, rich teams that may have a better shot at a championship than the Habs, who finished dead last in the East and made a mess of 2011-12, you need to hear him tell it. "I see greatness in that organization every day when I go to the rink. I see opportunity. I see an opportunity to win, to bring a championship back to that team. That city is so hungry for another Stanley Cup. And when I look around the dressing room, I see a number of guys that can do it, that want to do it. And I think that my influence on that team can bring a Stanley Cup back to that city," I think the the first line says it all.."I see greatness in that organization....etc." Does anyone on this board see greatness in the CSA? While it is getting better does anyone here see a great opportunity? While I would like to kick anyone of these guys in the nuts for not playing for Canada...as an organization the CSA does not do their part to give hope to anyone in this situation. Any one of the traitors can help our team but until there is a little inspiration show by CSA to take Canada to the MNT to greater heights, i say dig in and ride it out. THAT BEING SAID! With the atmosphere at BMO Field at the last WCQ....how can any CDN player not see where we are headed. It's the you guys who are making the difference out there and making everyone of those players....proud to play for Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yohan Posted September 9, 2012 Author Share Posted September 9, 2012 I keep reading the expression (paraphrasing here) "I can't wait until the day when we have enough depth to not have to want guys like this" referring to Vitoria, De guz and hoilett. Well, accepting or not accepting them back won't change our eventual increased production of players (which will come from the academies) so why not take them back. Even if we decide to not start any of these guys I'd rather have a bench with them than a bench with the guys we currently have. It could also have negative effect on dressing room atmosphere. Esp guys who lose spots to 'johnny come lately', who gets in starting lineup and others think he's got a merc attitude and not fully committed to Canadian program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red card Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 It could also have negative effect on dressing room atmosphere. Esp guys who lose spots to 'johnny come lately', who gets in starting lineup and others think he's got a merc attitude and not fully committed to Canadian program. This is my concern. I'm okay with welcoming most (but not all) guys back but you have to wonder about the character of these kids who turned their back on Canada for greed, not mature enough to think for themselves, easily influenced and easily soured. National teams have a tendency to blow up in football usually due to inside team frictiion while having a together team is one of the reasons behind any overachievement beyond talent alone. Canada has seen its share in both the men's and women's side and overall our sports team's seem to be quite fragile (ex hockey). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadianfoot Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 Correct we might see some guys that are sitting on the fence declare their love for Canada if we make it into the HEX since you have more than 50% chance of being at the World Cup. (3 spots out of 6 plus 4th place vs. Oceania winner....let's not forget Australia left that federation so our chances might be better). Imagine you have played for Canada the whole campaign, put your heart out on the field and then "joe" shows up as being Canadian suddenly. WTF that would piss me off and might create some bad chemistry in the locker room too. It would be completely different if someone declares their intentions at the Beginning of the soccer campaign for WC 2014. Or hey even better for the Gold Cup in order to rub shoulders with the other players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertuzzi44 Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 You know, after reading a little more about this guy...born to Portuguese immigrants in Toronto...moved back to Portugal very young...been in Portugal ever since...I was starting to wonder if he would even know english? Born and raised in Canada. Moved abroad at 18. Graduated from high school in Ontario, so I would hope he could speak English. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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