Vancouver Whitecaps and the Canadian Question

[Gian-Luca]

As someone who's not followed the Whitecaps this year because they refuse to play Canadians (and finds it quite telling that TFC has given up an international spot to Vancouver as part of this trade), can anyone who does explain why Vancouver has gotten rid of Hassli - too many cards made him a liability perhaps? He always seemed a beast out there to me, and it does seem like a club that has been successful this year (in the league at least) is getting rid of a lot of its better players (Chiumiento, Le Toux, Hassli).

Good move for Toronto to get him prior to the Champions league games, hopefully he's recovered in time from whatever injury he's got to be able to play in some of those games.

[Macksam]

As someone who's not followed the Whitecaps this year because they refuse to play Canadians (and finds it quite telling that TFC has given up an international spot to Vancouver as part of this trade), can anyone who does explain why Vancouver has gotten rid of Hassli - too many cards made him a liability perhaps? He always seemed a beast out there to me, and it does seem like a club that has been successful this year (in the league at least) is getting rid of a lot of its better players (Chiumiento, Le Toux, Hassli).

Good move for Toronto to get him prior to the Champions league games, hopefully he's recovered in time from whatever injury he's got to be able to play in some of those games.

I'm perplexed as well. It's like they're panicking over a small string of bad games. Letting Chiumiento go is understandable as he wanted to go back home. However, Le Toux?

[youllneverwalkalone]

As someone who's not followed the Whitecaps this year because they refuse to play Canadians (and finds it quite telling that TFC has given up an international spot to Vancouver as part of this trade), can anyone who does explain why Vancouver has gotten rid of Hassli - too many cards made him a liability perhaps? He always seemed a beast out there to me, and it does seem like a club that has been successful this year (in the league at least) is getting rid of a lot of its better players (Chiumiento, Le Toux, Hassli).

Good move for Toronto to get him prior to the Champions league games, hopefully he's recovered in time from whatever injury he's got to be able to play in some of those games.

He has two goals. He's slow and can't head the ball. The attack is horribly static with him up top and he doesn't defend much. Also the refs seem to hate him (which will give you lots of fuel for your anti-ref rants). More than anything, Darren Mattocks has emerged and shown he can play anyway you like: off the shoulder, withdrawn, target. Kenny Miller is much in the same mold and scored way more golals than Hassli, despite playing many games as a winger or attacking midfielder. Finally, many of the top prospects at the 93/94 level are attacking players. I suspect we'll see Ben Fisk signed after Sunday and the salary/international spots will go towards a defender/defensive mid.

[tmcmurph]

Coach Rennie traded Hassli because he didn't fit the style that he wanted. Hassli is a big target man who can hold the ball up and strike some incredible volleys. The style the coach wants is speed forwards to counter attack out of the 4-5-1 formation we use defensively. Letting LeToux go was a hard one but Richards is a big upgrade. Seba was a cardio freak with a work rate that would kill most pro players but he couldn't pass or receive passes.

By the way RT has made the bench a couple of times recently so his progress is happening if maddeningly slow. The Caps plan seems to be get in a bunch of vets who we can get 2-5 years out of. That gives us a serious chance at making the playoffs and keeping the casual fans around. It also shows the academy kids just where they need to be to get a spot. A winning team now and move the younger players up as they develop. They will always have to beat out older and better players to get a spot. That is a good thing.

[ThiKu]

I surely hope that's the plan for Teibert and Alderson.

Unfortunately I think Clarke will be our Makubuya. More likely to end-up in 3rd tier Germany or 2nd Scandinavia until late 20's than he is to make the Whitecaps first team.....??

[youllneverwalkalone]

I surely hope that's the plan for Teibert and Alderson.

Unfortunately I think Clarke will be our Makubuya. More likely to end-up in 3rd tier Germany or 2nd Scandinavia until late 20's than he is to make the Whitecaps first team.....??

Rennie called him a "powerful, clinical striker." Haven't heard those words to describe Canadian attackers too often, even if he was blowing smoke. He scored the second most goals in the USSDA and attracted interest from a German club with a rich history. In the meantime, Long Tan and Hassli are gone, Miller in. I'd say things are looking ok for Clarke.

As a general rule though, Rennie does not appear to trust any young players. Koffie is the only guy under 24 who sees regular time. This may change once the Caps establish themselves a top club. Or may not.

Russel played in the reserves match yesterday -which I attended- and he looked great in the first half playing LM, and then faded as he tends to do. Also, James Farenhorst started at CB, while Gagandeep Dosanj, Bobby Jhutty, and Alex Marello came in as subs. Perhaps the most interesting player was Kianz Froese Gonzalez, who is still 16. He started, playing the #10 role, and did quite well despite botching a few first half chances. He scored a pretty goal in the second, dribbling past the half of the Chivas team. He played PDL, but has never been part of the Residency set-up. I'm not sure what this means, but my guess he's either going to be signing in Germany shortly, or he may even get a developmental deal with the Caps.

Edit: Oops, thought this was the Caps thread. I'll put that last bit in the appropriate Whitecaps thread and leave it here for the Russell lovers at TFC.

[VWFC]

As someone who's not followed the Whitecaps this year because they refuse to play Canadians (and finds it quite telling that TFC has given up an international spot to Vancouver as part of this trade), can anyone who does explain why Vancouver has gotten rid of Hassli - too many cards made him a liability perhaps? He always seemed a beast out there to me, and it does seem like a club that has been successful this year (in the league at least) is getting rid of a lot of its better players (Chiumiento, Le Toux, Hassli).

Good move for Toronto to get him prior to the Champions league games, hopefully he's recovered in time from whatever injury he's got to be able to play in some of those games.

Seriously? Can we stop beating this horse yet? Especially from someone who admits they dont follow the 'Caps. Rennie doesn't refuse to play Canadians.

As for Hassli, the guy is a fan favourite, but he really hasn't performed well in a long time. You'll find the supporters who love him because of his personality and his wonder goals and people who don't rate him because over 90min he really doesn't do much. Although I think he'll play better in the TFC system then the 'Caps.

Good trade for both sides.

[VWFC]

Rennie called him a "powerful, clinical striker." Haven't heard those words to describe Canadian attackers too often, even if he was blowing smoke. He scored the second most goals in the USSDA and attracted interest from a German club with a rich history. In the meantime, Long Tan and Hassli are gone, Miller in. I'd say things are looking ok for Clarke.

As a general rule though, Rennie does not appear to trust any young players. Koffie is the only guy under 24 who sees regular time. This may change once the Caps establish themselves a top club. Or may not.

Russel played in the reserves match yesterday -which I attended- and he looked great in the first half playing LM, and then faded as he tends to do. Also, James Farenhorst started at CB, while Gagandeep Dosanj, Bobby Jhutty, and Alex Marello came in as subs. Perhaps the most interesting player was Kianz Froese Gonzalez, who is still 16. He started, playing the #10 role, and did quite well despite botching a few first half chances. He scored a pretty goal in the second, dribbling past the half of the Chivas team. He played PDL, but has never been part of the Residency set-up. I'm not sure what this means, but my guess he's either going to be signing in Germany shortly, or he may even get a developmental deal with the Caps.

Edit: Oops, thought this was the Caps thread. I'll put that last bit in the appropriate Whitecaps thread and leave it here for the Russell lovers at TFC.

Mattocks is 21 and Camilo just turned 24, but I agree with you, generally Rennie sticks with proven players.

[youllneverwalkalone]

^Forgot about Mattocks!

[narduch]

Seriously? Can we stop beating this horse yet? Especially from someone who admits they dont follow the 'Caps. Rennie doesn't refuse to play Canadians.

Hey, this is a CANADIAN SOCCER SUPPORTERS website.

We aren't all Vancouver fanboys.

Its not a dead horse. Its actually kind of embarrassing how hard Whitecap fans defend such a stupid rule.

[VWFC]

Hey, this is a CANADIAN SOCCER SUPPORTERS website.

We aren't all Vancouver fanboys.

Its not a dead horse. Its actually kind of embarrassing how hard Whitecap fans defend such a stupid rule.

Thanks tips, thats why I'm here because i support Canadian Soccer.

What rule are you talking about that caps fans are defending?

[narduch]

Thanks tips, thats why I'm here because i support Canadian Soccer.

What rule are you talking about that caps fans are defending?

Umm, the Canadian player quota (or joke of a quota to be more precise) for the three Canadian MLS teams.

[VWFC]

Umm, the Canadian player quota (or joke of a quota to be more precise) for the three Canadian MLS teams.

Who's defending the quota and what does it have to do with "...the Whitecaps refuse to play Canadians..."? The quota isn't the issue.

[narduch]

Who's defending the quota and what does it have to do with "...the Whitecaps refuse to play Canadians..."? The quota isn't the issue.

You're the one that called the issue a dead horse.

I disagree. The Whitecaps are an embarrassment to Canadian soccer.

[shermanator]

You're the one that called the issue a dead horse.

I disagree. The Whitecaps are an embarrassment to Canadian soccer.

jamonty on the ESG forums came across this blog (http://oot-football.blogspot.com) that keeps track of the number of minutes played by Canadians as a percentage of total minutes. ACC games are included.

The Whitecaps haven't played a Canadian for a single minute this season. By comparison, FC Edmonton has played Canadians in 64.99% of the total minutes, Toronto FC has played Canadians in 30.64%, and Montreal has 5.26%.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0Apwmnaq--Q4IdExRMjlhNkVRQTAzRVhYU2hkc1lDdkE&gid=3

I understand that the Residency is relatively new and the Canadians on the roster are still quite young, but the Whitecaps complete lack of focus towards giving Canadians first team minutes is beyong frustrating.

[Free kick]

I understand that the Residency is relatively new and the Canadians on the roster are still quite young, but the Whitecaps complete lack of focus towards giving Canadians first team minutes is beyong frustrating.

i think that the Whitecaps started up before TFC's academy. Not by a huge difference in time mind you. As far as the kids being quite young, well Tiebert is the same age as Morgan. Alderson is the same age as Henry.

[Yohan]

I still find it amusing that ppl expect Rennie to give a rats ass about developing canadian players. Im pretty sure thats not in his job description as Whitecaps manager

[narduch]

I still find it amusing that ppl expect Rennie to give a rats ass about developing canadian players. Im pretty sure thats not in his job description as Whitecaps manager

I don't give a rats ass about Rennie.

I'm more concerned about the CSA's showing no balls whatsoever on this matter.

The current quota is a joke. It may as well be zero.

[Marc]

I still find it amusing that ppl expect Rennie to give a rats ass about developing canadian players. Im pretty sure thats not in his job description as Whitecaps manager

Aside from the lack of Canadians actually getting to play for the Caps - which is a complete embarrassment to the club and the CSA and to some original MLS boosters like myself - I find it completely mystifying that someone from Canada comes to talk about a Canadian club team on a Canadian soccer messageboard and actually posts something like this - every. single. time. this. issue. comes up.

I don't expect the died-in-the-wool (or is it wool over the eyes?) to argue passionately against their club but posts like this on here are beyond comprehension. Sometimes the best way to deal with failure is to just put a collective hand up, own it and move on.

[tmcmurph]

"The Whitecaps haven't played a Canadian for a single minute this season." Last time I checked Rochat was a Canadian. No he doesn't have the ability to play for our MNT (DAMN SHAME TOO!) but he still is a Canadian. So there are players who are not Canadian enough for some making that list. So it isn't a "Canadians list" it is a "eligible to play for CMNT list". What happens if someone on the list later chooses Jamaica? Retro adjustments? I call BS on that list.

Second why rush their development? They are young and will have to break into the lineup of a team 3rd in their conf and 5th overall NOT try and get first team time on the last place team. Any residency player getting first team minutes will get it for one reason only, they are the best at it as judged by their coach.

I'm chomping at the bit to see RT get back into the lineup just as much as anyone but we are winning at CLUB football and developing players for the NATIONAL team. Sure I'd rather the Caps look more like Barcelona than Inter Milan but that is my pref.

Coaches are judged by league results. Fans, especially the recent ones, want winning club teams. In time that will be done with Canadian players but right now they are judged by their coach as not ready yet.

The Caps went with a older veteran lineup to get competitive and win in MLS now. They have also invested a lot in the residency long before they had to. As the current players age out the residency kids will get their shot and make their mark or move on. That is how to get the best of both worlds.

[Yohan]

I don't give a rats ass about Rennie.

I'm more concerned about the CSA's showing no balls whatsoever on this matter.

The current quota is a joke. It may as well be zero.

Exactly what pull does CSA have with MLS and USSF? The realistic situation is that Canada has three MLS teams as a favour

[Yohan]

Aside from the lack of Canadians actually getting to play for the Caps - which is a complete embarrassment to the club and the CSA and to some original MLS boosters like myself - I find it completely mystifying that someone from Canada comes to talk about a Canadian club team on a Canadian soccer messageboard and actually posts something like this - every. single. time. this. issue. comes up.

I don't expect the died-in-the-wool (or is it wool over the eyes?) to argue passionately against their club but posts like this on here are beyond comprehension. Sometimes the best way to deal with failure is to just put a collective hand up, own it and move on.

Your agument would make more sense if MLS is a Canadian league. Clubs are judged primarily on whether they win or not, not how many Canadians they produce for the CMNT.

[The Beaver]

Wow, this thread got spicy!

I posted this before, and I will do it again here: I am a Caps fan and I am disappointed that we are not yet seeing more Canadians in the starting 11 etc., but I am giving the club a few years to sort that out. They are developing a crapload of good young Canadians, and they are doing it the right way--taking their time. If in a couple of years the Caps do not start to field a team with two or three Canadians in the lineup, then I will not be impressed. Not sure I will care much for the team. But so far the Caps have done a lot of stuff right--unlike TFC--and I trust that they have the intelligence to move the club in the right direction, which includes getting as many exciting Canadians on the field as possible. Have some patience. The Caps are building nicely.

[narduch]

Exactly what pull does CSA have with MLS and USSF? The realistic situation is that Canada has three MLS teams as a favour

The CSA can set the Canadian quota for Canadian MLS clubs.

[jpg75]

I can't wait to see the look on the faces of Whitecaps upper management when Montagliani tells them the quota is going up.

It's good to know the selling out of Canadian soccer can be so easily rationalized by most Caps fans on this forum, thanks for coming out guys.

As for Rochat counting as a Canadian, well while we're at it let's count Landon Donovan as Canadian and track him in the MOACA. Maybe when the Caps add Lensky and Whoregreaves, and even Dani Fernandes, Steven Vitoria etc. we'll count them all as Canadians as say "bang up job guys, keep playing all those Canadians!". Embarassing.