Obinna Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 ''Son'' does have a small condescendant connotation to me, but in England it may be different. Anyway, what's this thread's topic again? vees insults? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyrus Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 I really feel that Ali G would be incredibly valuable to the National Team, and that we could make good use of his natural scoring touch. Hell, bring him in off the bench at 75 minutes when we're tied, and he might just create some magic. But I understand how we're not dressing a guy who isn't playing matches. In an ideal world, for the good of the Nats, I'd want him playing the game, somewhere, anywhere. But I understand where the guy is coming from. Clearly, the Impact were paying him, and had him on salary for the 2012 season, a considerable sum, (whether it was $140K, $300K or even a cool mill is not as important as the fact that it is a big chunk of change to Ali). A chunk of change that he wasn't willing to walk away from just to stay in match shape. Yeah, he could be tearing it up right now for FC Edmonton or Puerto Rico, but it would be at considerable financial risk to the big guy. If he was ten years younger, he might be willing to take that risk -- play a year at $30K, tear up the league, and get a call to Europe, but the guy is 30, and the phone calls from Germany and England just might not be coming. This year's salary just might be his house and his pension plan. That's fair. But I really hope that he is playing, somewhere, when we go to the Hex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingback6 Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 All he does is score. . Probably why he doesn't have a club. In today's game, you need to to more. Just ask Spain, who are currently a record 4-0 up at euros, and started wit h 6 Midfielders. With only one of those goals from a striker. The one striker, a fella names Torres, passed on the fourth to set up Juan Mata, something I don't think Ali G would be capable of doing, or a guy like Occean. Problem with guys who 'just score' is they don't score in every game. And when they're not scoring, they take up space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmonte Posted July 1, 2012 Author Share Posted July 1, 2012 I think Occean does more than just score, personally. Maybe passing touch isn't one of those things, but effort off the ball, and proper hold up play certainly is, as he has shown recently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ag futbol Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 I thought Occean was full value with his last performance. He held up the ball well and battled incredibly hard considering he was playing on an island up front and our midfielders were incredibly slow to join the attack. Personally, I'm not missing Ali Gerba in the slightest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villus Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 I thought Occean was full value with his last performance. He held up the ball well and battled incredibly hard considering he was playing on an island up front and our midfielders were incredibly slow to join the attack. Personally, I'm not missing Ali Gerba in the slightest. I agree, but after OO we don't have any other target striker except for Friend who is pretty off the map as well. Because of the style we play we need a bigger target striker who can hopefully also score goals and Ali fits that bill so I'd love to have him to back up OO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soccerpro Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 I agree, but after OO we don't have any other target striker except for Friend who is pretty off the map as well. Because of the style we play we need a bigger target striker who can hopefully also score goals and Ali fits that bill so I'd love to have him to back up OO. I'd still take Ali Gerba as a sub for OO any day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingback6 Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Not to take this thread in the OO direction any further. But... I can't comment on the last game, since I didn't see it, but I recall seeing him take some HORRENDOUS touches near half last round, amateur stuff. I think if you get him more than ten yards away from the penalty area, he is lost, maybe the reason he was on an island during the game, but that's his fault, not the midfielders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmonte Posted July 2, 2012 Author Share Posted July 2, 2012 Not to take this thread in the OO direction any further. But... I can't comment on the last game, since I didn't see it, but I recall seeing him take some HORRENDOUS touches near half last round, amateur stuff. I think if you get him more than ten yards away from the penalty area, he is lost, maybe the reason he was on an island during the game, but that's his fault, not the midfielders. The general consensus in that game's thread was that Occean was doing the best with what he had...him being on that island wasn't Occean's OR the midfielders' fault, it was actually Hart's...he could have had them a little more offensive minded in the last half against Honduras. As for his amateur touches on the ball, I disagree. Compared to Spain, yes, compared to other CONCACAF nations, he's just fine lol... Either way he's good enough for German top flight next year, wish him good luck there, and maybe with a newly promoted team (Eintracht Frankfurt, not Greuther Furth, same scenario with more money), they'll have an even better technical coaching staff where he can improve on these aspects by the hex? Remains to be seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 OO is easily our best player at holding up the ball up front, hé was good at doing so in the last round except for the last 10 min againt PR in Toronto. He also did well in that department in the récent 3 MNT games, not perfection but still better than Gerba or Friend were doing in récent years for us. The description Wingback6 is making of OO looks like more the one I would make of Gerba, only good in the box. OO offers you much more and Furth coach praised him for that many times these year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maccaliam Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 ^ I agree. I thought OO was excellent at holding the ball up and keeping possession for us when balls were knocked up to him. I was especially impressed with him vs Honduras. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearcatSA Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 OO is easily our best player at holding up the ball up front, hé was good at doing so in the last round except for the last 10 min againt PR in Toronto. He also did well in that department in the récent 3 MNT games, not perfection but still better than Gerba or Friend were doing in récent years for us. The description Wingback6 is making of OO looks like more the one I would make of Gerba, only good in the box. OO offers you much more and Furth coach praised him for that many times these year. He always seemed to have been the forgotten man in that particular role but I'm glad that he has finally established himself with our NT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingback6 Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 OO is easily our best player at holding up the ball up front, hé was good at doing so in the last round except for the last 10 min againt PR in Toronto. He also did well in that department in the récent 3 MNT games, not perfection but still better than Gerba or Friend were doing in récent years for us. The description Wingback6 is making of OO looks like more the one I would make of Gerba, only good in the box. OO offers you much more and Furth coach praised him for that many times these year. Well that seems fair, I would certainly rate Occean better in the open field. And for what it's worth, I did predicate my description, in fact, if I recall, it was something I noticed in the gold cup, so it is entirely possible he has improved, and will improve further. That being said, I don't think we should rate a player scoring a lot in German soccer that highly at an international level, necessarily. Again, referencing Euros, Gomez bagged tons of goals in the Bundesliga, but could do little against a well organized Italian D, and Spain hasn't played with a target man for years. Frankly, we don't have the size of Germany, so if we're going to model ourselves after anyone, it should be teams like Spain, to that end, it's awful hard for concacaf teams to dive if they don't have the ball. If OO can fit into that, then great. It's good to have a target man as an option, but I don't think he should be the focal point of the attack. Possession/passing, will get us further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Wingback6, the last GC Occean was involved in was 2005! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmonte Posted July 3, 2012 Author Share Posted July 3, 2012 Wingback6, the last GC Occean was involved in was 2005! I think every country in the world would LIKE to model themselves after spain. Too bad not every country in the world has the talent Spain does right now. It'll take a magic wand, not coaching, to make Dunfield pass like Xabi Alonso...we're talking about a side that debates whether or not to start the likes of Fabregas lol... My view is you have to model your system off the talent you have, and what they are capable of. This includes the formation you use as well. It's a lesson many coaches should learn better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditty Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Well that seems fair, I would certainly rate Occean better in the open field. And for what it's worth, I did predicate my description, in fact, if I recall, it was something I noticed in the gold cup, so it is entirely possible he has improved, and will improve further. That being said, I don't think we should rate a player scoring a lot in German soccer that highly at an international level, necessarily. Again, referencing Euros, Gomez bagged tons of goals in the Bundesliga, but could do little against a well organized Italian D, and Spain hasn't played with a target man for years. Frankly, we don't have the size of Germany, so if we're going to model ourselves after anyone, it should be teams like Spain, to that end, it's awful hard for concacaf teams to dive if they don't have the ball. If OO can fit into that, then great. It's good to have a target man as an option, but I don't think he should be the focal point of the attack. Possession/passing, will get us further. I think declaring the death of the centre forward in international soccer is a little premature. Italy clearly played with one as did Portugal and Germany. Just because Spain use a false 9 doesn't make it effective for every other national team. And keep in mind that Mario Gomez scored 3 very centre-forward-esque goals in the Euro. Germany lost to Italy because Italy's big, target man centre forward scored twice. Also, I'm not sure the German starting 11 are physically much bigger than our starting 11. As for being able to keep the ball in CONCACAF, our success will come playing on the counter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ag futbol Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 I think declaring the death of the centre forward in international soccer is a little premature. Italy clearly played with one as did Portugal and Germany. Just because Spain use a false 9 doesn't make it effective for every other national team. And keep in mind that Mario Gomez scored 3 very centre-forward-esque goals in the Euro. Germany lost to Italy because Italy's big, target man centre forward scored twice. Also, I'm not sure the German starting 11 are physically much bigger than our starting 11. As for being able to keep the ball in CONCACAF, our success will come playing on the counter. You just have to incorporate some element of possession in CONCACAF, there is no way around it. In a perfect world, where games aren't played in insanely hot temperatures, referees aren't crooked, and our opponents don't flop around like fish... sure we'd probably sit back, absorb pressure, and hit'em hard when it counts.. But as long as I've been watching play within this region of the world, that's been an ineffective strategy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditty Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 You just have to incorporate some element of possession in CONCACAF, there is no way around it. In a perfect world, where games aren't played in insanely hot temperatures, referees aren't crooked, and our opponents don't flop around like fish... sure we'd probably sit back, absorb pressure, and hit'em hard when it counts.. But as long as I've been watching play within this region of the world, that's been an ineffective strategy. I guess it depends on what is considered possession. I think we were good vs the US and Honduras recently but I wouldn't call that possession football. And playing into a loan front man can still be possession football. I would consider our current group relatively fast and physical. But I hear what you're saying in that we can't expect to lump the ball forward or go 1v1 on the flanks all the time. I actually think our balance with this group is pretty good; especially with Hutch in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamiltonfan Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Anyone else heard anything on Peters to MLS specifically TFC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmonte Posted July 10, 2012 Author Share Posted July 10, 2012 anyone else heard anything on peters to mls specifically tfc? just kidding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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