How many NASL teams do we need to develop young Canadian talent?

[Max]

I would love to see teams in Calgary, Ottwaw (it's coming), Victoria, Regina, Hamilton, Halifax and Quebec City.

[Soccerpro]

I would love to see teams in Calgary, Ottwaw (it's coming), Victoria, Regina, Hamilton, Halifax and Quebec City.

You're crazy if you think that would ever happen. I hope FCE stays afloat, Ottawa comes on board, and one more team becomes viable (Hamilton?). That's about as realistic as it gets IMHO.

[Soccerpro]

Also the question begs, does d2 "develop players?" When MLS doesn't pay transfer fees, it makes it difficult for d2 to have any incentive to develop players for sale.

Here's an interesting conversation on develop re: MLS/NASL/USL

http://www.bigsoccer.com/community/threads/mls-struggling-to-get-young-players-on-the-field-hurting-u-s-soccer%E2%80%99s-development.1946152/

[ahuber]

It depends, are the other Canadian teams going to employ as many Canadians as FCE? I think one more team that operates like FCE in that sense would stop a lot of Canadian talent from slipping through the cracks, but who knows if that happens? Maybe Ottawa or another Canadian NASL team in the future will go the Whitecaps route...

[Greatest Cockney Rip Off]

Also the question begs, does d2 "develop players?" When MLS doesn't pay transfer fees, it makes it difficult for d2 to have any incentive to develop players for sale.

Here's an interesting conversation on develop re: MLS/NASL/USL

http://www.bigsoccer.com/community/threads/mls-struggling-to-get-young-players-on-the-field-hurting-u-s-soccer%E2%80%99s-development.1946152/

That has always been the big question for me, how do the players get from d2 to to d1 in Canada or the US. With the salary cap in MLS including any transfer fee paid, it makes it hard to pay a transfer fee without making that player a DP. It would be great if MLS could create a rule so that a fee paid to club for a player currently in a Canadian or US league would not count against the cap.

[Max]

You're crazy if you think that would ever happen. I hope FCE stays afloat, Ottawa comes on board, and one more team becomes viable (Hamilton?). That's about as realistic as it gets IMHO.

Of course I'm crazy. I support Canadian soccer, and from time to time I dream about big things, lol.

[ted]

I would love to see teams in Calgary, Ottwaw (it's coming), Victoria, Regina, Hamilton, Halifax and Quebec City.

That would be great to see in a decade and would be about right with 3 MLS teams. As I am sure people are tired of hearing me say we need a professional pyramid that looks something like this:

MLS ~ 3 teams

NASL ~ 6 teams

D3 ~ 12 teams

Linked together by the Voyageurs Cup this would provide a reliable development path for kids who want to play pro and be financially sustainable given the markets available in Canada.

[Winnipeg Fury]

3 NASL (Div 2) teams for every MLS team.

[Opie]

It seems some have forgotten that D2 in the United States has a rule where 75% of the clubs must be U.S. based. So forget about have a large number of Canadian teams in the NASL. Two seems to be the max for a while. As has been said numerous times, we need our own D2 that has nothing to do with the USSF.

Also the question begs, does d2 "develop players?" When MLS doesn't pay transfer fees, it makes it difficult for d2 to have any incentive to develop players for sale.

Here's an interesting conversation on develop re: MLS/NASL/USL

http://www.bigsoccer.com/community/threads/mls-struggling-to-get-young-players-on-the-field-hurting-u-s-soccer%E2%80%99s-development.1946152/

MLS doesn't rely on D2 to develop players. They are taking development mostly in their own hands with the academies. The question that is currently being raised is who fills in the gap between the MLS academies and the first team? MLS is going to expand their reserve system, but there is talk about working with the NASL and USL to provide more clubs for MLS players to play on. Right now there are only loans.

No one expects the NASL to develop anyone. The question is could they provide a home for MLS's young players? And this system in more in line with Major League Baseball's farm system.

That has always been the big question for me, how do the players get from d2 to to d1 in Canada or the US. With the salary cap in MLS including any transfer fee paid, it makes it hard to pay a transfer fee without making that player a DP. It would be great if MLS could create a rule so that a fee paid to club for a player currently in a Canadian or US league would not count against the cap.

MLS doesn't pay transfer fees of any note to NASL and USL clubs and never will. The fact is, the players there do not really warrant transfer fees. Players move up from D2 to D1 all the time because they sign short contracts and make very little money in the NASL. No one wants to be stuck playing in D2 anymore and their goal is to move up quickly as possible. Players move up because they want more money and want to play at a higher level.

[yothat]

Isn't WSA Winnipeg considering moving up from the PDL to NASL or USL PRO in 2014 or 2015.

[Greatest Cockney Rip Off]

MLS doesn't pay transfer fees of any note to NASL and USL clubs and never will. The fact is, the players there do not really warrant transfer fees. Players move up from D2 to D1 all the time because they sign short contracts and make very little money in the NASL. No one wants to be stuck playing in D2 anymore and their goal is to move up quickly as possible. Players move up because they want more money and want to play at a higher level.

Except all of the Canadians at FCE didn't sign short terms contracts and some of them should have the opportunity to move up. TFC allegedly paid $500,000 for Joao Platta. Why not spend a transfer fee on someone like Shaun Saiko?

[alberta white]

Also if you get a wage thats compareable to what an MLS club would offer, but you actually get to play and be appreciated for doing so then what so wrong with that?

Not all sports men are souless money grabbing SOB's. Some actually think outside of that perticular security box.

[Macksam]

We should in all honesty gun for more MLS teams as well. If a Canadian city like Edmonton or whatever has a chance of getting one, the city should bite no matter what...even if their NASL team gets dissolved as a result. I know some guy with horrendous, short-term thinking is going to say "Why? Just so we can have another MLS team with barely any Canadians playing...." In the short term, that may be the case. However, the long-term benefits of having an MLS team over an NASL team will show with regards to Canadian player development.

[Drew Shaw]

How many NASL teams? That's out of our hands. If there are 8 NASL teams, then only 2 of them can be Canadian, according to the need for the NASL to be 75% American. FC Edmonton is in, Ottawa is coming in 2014, so Canadian content in NASL is already maxed out. The only way to increase the Canadian NASL teams is if 2 more US NASL teams are formed.

However, Canada isn't restricted to just NASL. USL Pro is an option, as is a Canadian domestic league. However, the latter doesn't seem likely to happen.

I think we need a pro team in Calgary, to join Edmonton and Ottawa, because that would mean a pro youth academy in all 6 Canadian cities with a population of 1 million or more. We need pro youth academies in more cities than that, though, if we are to develop ALL our potential. Nothing less than teams also in Victoria, Winnipeg, Hamilton, Quebec, and Halifax if we are to bring a pro soccer academy to within reach of most Canadian youth.

[Opie]

Except all of the Canadians at FCE didn't sign short terms contracts and some of them should have the opportunity to move up.

Then that is their misfortune. Most lower division players are smart enough to sign short term deals. If they tie themselves to a D2 club with club options, then they can't complain if they get stuck at said club getting low wages. They should know by now that MLS doesn't pay transfer fees. You move up by being a FA. And European clubs aren't exactly scouting the NASL for players to buy.

And FCE would quickly go out of business if they had to compensate these players by giving them D1 salaries.

Maybe because Plata came from a higher league(Ecuadorian First Division) and was a much hotter commodity? There is not exactly anyone beating down FCE for Saiko. If FCE can sell him to a lower division European team, say in Norway or Sweden, then they should do it. But MLS has no interest in paying the NASL or USL for players they'll end up with anyway.

Because any player should want to challenge themselves by moving to a better league. Just like MLS players move to better European leagues when they reach a certain level.

Playing in a league with small crowds and no real national exposure should never be any player's goal. Your skills only get better by playing against better competition. And the NASL is poor competition.

Being appreciated means nothing when your skills aren't challenged. If you are a minor league player with no real MLS or European future, than you have nothing to worry about. But if you are a pro with a future, you have to get out of D2 in North America as soon as possible.

[madmonte]

We should in all honesty gun for more MLS teams as well. If a Canadian city like Edmonton or whatever has a chance of getting one, the city should bite no matter what...even if their NASL team gets dissolved as a result. I know some guy with horrendous, short-term thinking is going to say "Why? Just so we can have another MLS team with barely any Canadians playing...." In the short term, that may be the case. However, the long-term benefits of having an MLS team over an NASL team will show with regards to Canadian player development.

Well Mark Abbott, the president of MLS was interviewed during halftime of the Montreal Impact opener. He said there was definitely no plan to go to Canada in the near future, if Canada got another franchise, it would be a long time away. His focus was in New York.

In terms of NASL, for Calgary to get a franchise, people need to show they will consistently bring Clarke Stadium to their new maximum capacity seating limit for FC Edmonton to prove the model can work in Alberta. They won't just arbitrarily go "Okay, let's open up in Calgary now." Ottawa was a more natural fit because Ontario has started to prove soccer culture. Not saying a team in Calgary won't happen...more saying they would wait to see what happens with FC Edmonton first.

[kodiakTFC]

How many NASL teams? That's out of our hands. If there are 8 NASL teams, then only 2 of them can be Canadian, according to the need for the NASL to be 75% American. FC Edmonton is in, Ottawa is coming in 2014, so Canadian content in NASL is already maxed out. The only way to increase the Canadian NASL teams is if 2 more US NASL teams are formed.

However, Canada isn't restricted to just NASL. USL Pro is an option, as is a Canadian domestic league. However, the latter doesn't seem likely to happen.

I think we need a pro team in Calgary, to join Edmonton and Ottawa, because that would mean a pro youth academy in all 6 Canadian cities with a population of 1 million or more. We need pro youth academies in more cities than that, though, if we are to develop ALL our potential. Nothing less than teams also in Victoria, Winnipeg, Hamilton, Quebec, and Halifax if we are to bring a pro soccer academy to within reach of most Canadian youth.

Puerto Rico Islanders don't count as an American team so they are apart of that 25% foreign teams. Ottawa is coming in under the presumption that NASL will be adding more Americans sides. Their commissioner has said they'll announce two more expansion markets in the new couple weeks which would bring them up to the expected quota of American teams.

For the next Canadian market to join the NASL there will need to be at least 12 American sides. It is current at six with the assumption they will be at eight by 2014. However, don't let this get anyone down seeing as how 1. the USSF has been relatively lax on enforcing this rule, 2. the NASL has ridiculous expansion plans with a hope of 20 teams by 2020. If this were to become reality, we could have 2 more Canadian teams by 2020!

[Macksam]

Well Mark Abbott, the president of MLS was interviewed during halftime of the Montreal Impact opener. He said there was definitely no plan to go to Canada in the near future, if Canada got another franchise, it would be a long time away. His focus was in New York.

Yeah, I read that interview. I don't think it would be that long away. After New York gets placed, every city is fair game again.

[alberta white]

Because any player should want to challenge themselves by moving to a better league. Just like MLS players move to better European leagues when they reach a certain level.

Playing in a league with small crowds and no real national exposure should never be any player's goal. Your skills only get better by playing against better competition. And the NASL is poor competition.

Being appreciated means nothing when your skills aren't challenged. If you are a minor league player with no real MLS or European future, than you have nothing to worry about. But if you are a pro with a future, you have to get out of D2 in North America as soon as possible.

But that does not automatically equate with Joining MLS.

[shermanator]

If NASL has plans on getting more clubs out west, I think Calgary has to be considered a natural fit simply in it's proximity to Edmonton. I've heard Eugene thrown out there, perhaps our own version of the Cascadia?

[Opie]

Well Mark Abbott, the president of MLS was interviewed during halftime of the Montreal Impact opener. He said there was definitely no plan to go to Canada in the near future, if Canada got another franchise, it would be a long time away. His focus was in New York.

After NY, MLS will then look to the South East. Orlando, Miami, Atlanta, and a market in North Carolina. They have to also look at San Antonio. And another markets might pop up like say Las Vegas or San Diego.

I don't know who the 4th market will be for MLS. Ottawa? Calgary? But it will take a looooong time.

But that does not automatically equate with Joining MLS.

No, it does not. But the overwhelming majority of players will end up there. And the better ones will then move beyond MLS to bigger European clubs.

[kodiakTFC]

After NY, MLS will then look to the South East. Orlando, Miami, Atlanta, and a market in North Carolina. They have to also look at San Antonio. And another markets might pop up like say Las Vegas or San Diego.

I don't know who the 4th market will be for MLS. Ottawa? Calgary? But it will take a looooong time.

No, it does not. But the overwhelming majority of players will end up there. And the better ones will then move beyond MLS to bigger European clubs.

Basically everything you said with the addition of perhaps Minnesota. You hear rumblings about them using the new Vikings stadium.

[madmonte]

After NY, MLS will then look to the South East. Orlando, Miami, Atlanta, and a market in North Carolina. They have to also look at San Antonio. And another markets might pop up like say Las Vegas or San Diego.

I don't know who the 4th market will be for MLS. Ottawa? Calgary? But it will take a looooong time.

No, it does not. But the overwhelming majority of players will end up there. And the better ones will then move beyond MLS to bigger European clubs.

Right, Ottawa, Edmonton, Calgary and other options haven't proven themselves yet even at the smaller scale as a footie market, which all three current MLS teams have had to do.

[An Observer]

While the mls may have a preference to expand in the us especially in nyc and the south east, if someone in Canada appeared with deep pockets and a suitable facility I would suspect they would take that side whether it was in Ottawa, Calgary or Edmonton. It was not that long ago that they were seriously considering Ottawa and would havetaken a team there.

[BuzzAndSting]

While the mls may have a preference to expand in the us especially in nyc and the south east, if someone in Canada appeared with deep pockets and a suitable facility I would suspect they would take that side whether it was in Ottawa, Calgary or Edmonton. It was not that long ago that they were seriously considering Ottawa and would havetaken a team there.

The way the papers wrote about it back then it seemed that the City of Ottawa choosing the OSEG and the Lansdowne development over Eugene Melnyk's Kanata stadium proposal was the only thing that prevented Ottawa from getting an MLS team. Mind you there were reports that OSEG partner Jeff Hunt had discussions with Don Gerber and that never lead to anything, maybe because a potential MLS team would have shared a facility with OSEG's CFL franchise. Maybe someone more in the know here in Ottawa can comment.

More relevant to this thread, the Ottawa Sun reported today that both the OSEG's CFL and NASL franchise may not be starting until 2014 as opposed to the earlier reported 2013 because of legal delays with the Lansdowne development. What a mess this situation is.