Jonathan de Guzman out of the picture forever

[Canada1]

Yes, I'm being self righteous by sounding my opinion that I disagree with you and others.

In the same sentence you chastise me for criticizing people on how they feel (I'm not by the way) and then you criticize Jonathan for feeling he is more Dutch than Canadian.

My point is, you people who are so angry need to realize that you set yourselves up for disappointment, Jon never once said he would play for Canada.

And yes I'm Jonathons family member who has decided to hang out on this board for 10+ years just waiting for this moment. Busted.

Yes, I'm being self righteous by sounding my opinion that I disagree with you and others.

In the same sentence you chastise me for criticizing people on how they feel (I'm not by the way) and then you criticize Jonathan for feeling he is more Dutch than Canadian.

My point is, you people who are so angry need to realize that you set yourselves up for disappointment, Jon never once said he would play for Canada.

And yes I'm Jonathons family member who has decided to hang out on this board for 10+ years just waiting for this moment. Busted.

Razcal. I would expect the reponse you have given over the past threads if you are truly a family member.

However, when we advance to the HEX or the 2014 World Cup, I do not want even hear the thought that your relative wants to play for Canada and bump one of our fellow Canadians who have given so much to this country. I could give a crap how good he thinks he is, he just is not a true Canadian.

[ThiKu]

If we make the World Cup, as much as Jono would help, if he foregoe's Canada and then says "I want to play" he can piss right off. I'd rather have Ledgerwood, or one of the u23's in a heartbeat over Jono at that point. Even if he comes out during the Hex and says "I want to play" and if we've already won a match or two in that round and look a good bet to qualify, he can also bugger off. If he says prior to the Hex, "I'd like to play, I am committed" then I'd expect a nationwide apology on his part and for him to work his ass off on the field to prove how sorry he is. If he lollygags as some "star" then again, take a seat.

[Canada1]

If we make the World Cup, as much as Jono would help, if he foregoe's Canada and then says "I want to play" he can piss right off. I'd rather have Ledgerwood, or one of the u23's in a heartbeat over Jono at that point. Even if he comes out during the Hex and says "I want to play" and if we've already won a match or two in that round and look a good bet to qualify, he can also bugger off. If he says prior to the Hex, "I'd like to play, I am committed" then I'd expect a nationwide apology on his part and for him to work his ass off on the field to prove how sorry he is. If he lollygags as some "star" then again, take a seat.

Absolutely.

[rickbou76]

Yes, I'm being self righteous by sounding my opinion that I disagree with you and others.

In the same sentence you chastise me for criticizing people on how they feel (I'm not by the way) and then you criticize Jonathan for feeling he is more Dutch than Canadian.

My point is, you people who are so angry need to realize that you set yourselves up for disappointment, Jon never once said he would play for Canada.

And yes I'm Jonathons family member who has decided to hang out on this board for 10+ years just waiting for this moment. Busted.

Are you saying that this was a mind game from your so called family member to put pressure on the dutch squad to be selected for the euro...

JDG said that (is brother for our national team)

“I’ve been talking to my brother a lot about his international chances of playing for Canada, and this is the first time he’s felt more motivated to represent Canada,” Julian de Guzman told the network.

“He’s actually given me the word to pass on to the coaches and the staff to really look into his chances of regaining his Canadian passport.”

If he was honest and said that was interested in f...ing around with Canada, and for him all of this is big joke.

We need to set the record straight... Jonathan made is decision.. and its ok I respect it... now Leave, I don't want to hear from you and especially listen to you lie to us and take us for a bunch of idiots. All that coming from a Serious Idiot.. And you can tell him I said that..

I just shared my thoughts on a point blank looser of the dutch national team program.

[madmonte]

I just shared my thoughts on a point blank looser of the dutch national team program.

I'm sorry Rick, but I take issue with this statement.....................

......................................................................................

.........................................................................................

He is not a current member of the dutch national team program.

[paul-collins]

There's only one de Guzman,

There's only one de Guzman,

There would have been more

But his brother's a whore.

Walking in a de Guzman wonderland.

(No?)

... from last year (and not a Lord Bob original, as he noted later in the same thread)

[Marc]

Re: feeling "more Dutch than Canadian"

Aren't we often getting after players and 'fans' for identifying with their country of origin despite growing up here or living here for a long period of time? Why would Jono moving to Holland in his teens be any different? Borjan gets points for this but Jono is full of it? I think we're being a bit hypocritical.

Jono is a pain and self-involved and yup this totally stinks but I suspect that Finchster is correct. If that's the case then the real mistake is someone going public about it all.

If Hart called me up tomorrow but it would screw up my citizenship and my long-prepared for and very financially-rewarding career I suspect that I'd be likely to have second thoughts too. Particularly if my career is at a cross-roads like Jono's. In five years he could find himself in the Champions League, or he could find himself in the Topklasse.

There are a lot of promising players whose dalliance with the Nats didn't help keep them out of the graveyard of Canadian soccer. Ask Brad Parker how the Nats helped him or Stathis Kappos how his career went after his one apperance. Look through the list of former u20 Nats players on Wikipedia - there are so many promising guys there that amounted to little. Jono has something at least to protect.

I think the real rascals are not so much the Jonos who are too self-focused and not straightforward enough for our liking, but moreso the **********es that lead us along a primrose path and then blame us for his choice or the Begovices who abandon us jsut as they are peaking (though I could understand the rumoured extenuating circumstances) or T.Bunburies who just totally screw us over withotu so much as a thank-you card. But I certainly don't begrudge anyone for feeling pissed about it all.

I also agree with Beaver's assertion that Jono is getting some suspect advice and that there probably has been a lot of sunshine thrown at him, probably a bit too much for his own good. And after ten or more years of that I don't doubt that you start believing it somewhat, particularly when at one time it had some basis in reality.

[rickbou76]

I'm sorry Rick, but I take issue with this statement.....................

......................................................................................

.........................................................................................

He is not a current member of the dutch national team program.

Toucher... But you try telling him that lol...

[madmonte]

Aren't we often getting after players and 'fans' for identifying with their country of origin despite growing up here or living here for a long period of time? Why would Jono moving to Holland in his teens be any different? Borjan gets points for this but Jono is full of it? I think we're being a bit hypocritical.

Jono is a pain and a bit self-involved and this stinks but I suspect that Finchster is correct and that Jono's/Julian's mistake is going public about it all.

If Hart called me up tomorrow but it would screw up my citizenship and my long-prepared for and very financially-rewarding career I suspect that I'd be likely to have second thoughts too. Particularly if my career is at a cross-roads like Jono's. In five years he could find himself in the Champions League, or he could find himself in the Topklasse. There are a lot of promising players in the graveyard of Canadian soccer and whose dalliance with the Nats didn't do them much good. Ask Stathis Kappos how his career went after his one apperance.

I think the real rascals are not so much the Jonos who have maybe not been straightforward enough for our liking, but moreso the **********es that lead us along a primrose path and make it sound like our fault and Begovices who actively screw us over (family "pressures" or not). But I also agree with Beaver's assertion that Jono is getting some suspect advice and that there probably has been a lot of sunshine blown up his ass, probably a bit too much for his own good, and after ten or more years of that I don't doubt that you start believing it somewhat, particularly when at one time it had some basis in reality.

Hence my joke about Borjan earlier in the thread that Razcal didn't quite think made sense, and yet I was actually supporting his viewpoint in a cheeky way, before he pretty much called me a moron. Odd.

Fact remains we all were hoping he'd play here, and now that he has finally come out and said he isn't, we're all a little bitter. I'm not sure (you go ahead....take the time and find out) but I'm not sure if Croatia even knows or cares about Borjan. That's a big difference. There are plenty of actual Canadians for example that play for the Italian hockey team. Like their whole roster, really. But we aren't bitter about that, because they weren't going to make our squad anyways. Borjan NOW may be worthy of consideration in Czech, but they would be past caring, they have other worthy keepers. It's a difference in mindset.

I will say this. If anyone ever thinks Canada is hard done by, and many of us do (I'm certainly not happy with Jonathan right now), then take a look at who AUSTRALIA has lost. THOSE guys are hard done by.

For the record, noone call him JDG2 anymore or JDG. There is now only one.

[Canada1]

Hence my joke about Borjan earlier in the thread that Razcal didn't quite think made sense, and yet I was actually supporting his viewpoint in a cheeky way, before he pretty much called me a moron. Odd.

Fact remains we all were hoping he'd play here, and now that he has finally come out and said he isn't, we're all a little bitter. I'm not sure (you go ahead....take the time and find out) but I'm not sure if Croatia even knows or cares about Borjan. That's a big difference. There are plenty of actual Canadians for example that play for the Italian hockey team. Like their whole roster, really. But we aren't bitter about that, because they weren't going to make our squad anyways. Borjan NOW may be worthy of consideration in Czech, but they would be past caring, they have other worthy keepers. It's a difference in mindset.

I will say this. If anyone ever thinks Canada is hard done by, and many of us do (I'm certainly not happy with Jonathan right now), then take a look at who AUSTRALIA has lost. THOSE guys are hard done by.

For the record, noone call him JDG2 anymore or JDG. There is now only one.

"Julian" Baby and he is ours.

[Marc]

At the time I believe there was some rumour that his season at Rad had caught the eye of the Serbian Nats but I can't recall. But it's not relevant. Whether you're on the radar of an international soccer program or not if Jono identifies as Dutch after spending his teen and early adult years there I don't think we should begrudge that anymore than Borjan feeling Canadian after a sojourn in the Hammer before moving on to South America and then back to Europe. He's been in the Netherlands longer than Borjan was ever here.

I also totally agree that Australia has been completely screwed. There are a whack of S.Americans who've played for Italy too, I think. And the Yanks have this problem too, though they have a deeper pool to pull from when it happens. I personally have no problems with someone like Bircham's tenuous links to us. Or a Canadian's tenuous links to somewhere else. International soccer is getting to be a bit of a waste anyway.

I don't mind if someone doesn't want to play for us. To me, it doesn't matter how "Canadian" they are or not. How long they were here or there. Just don't blame the system. Just don't blame us cutting you at age 15. Don't blame the selection or the coach. Don't use us and then bail. Just don't dick us around.

[Joe MacCarthy]

I don't mind if someone doesn't want to play for us. To me, it doesn't matter how "Canadian" they are or not. How long they were here or there. Just don't blame the system. Just don't blame us cutting you at age 15. Don't blame the selection or the coach. Don't use us and then bail. Just don't dick us around.

+ 1 Praise Allah!

[killgod]

@KurtLarSUN: JDG: Think Jonathan is bluffing #TFC #CANMNT

*headexplodes*

[madmonte]

At the time I believe there was some rumour that his season at Rad had caught the eye of the Serbian Nats but I can't recall. But it's not relevant. Whether you're on the radar of an international soccer program or not if Jono identifies as Dutch after spending his teen and early adult years there I don't think we should begrudge that anymore than Borjan feeling Canadian after a sojourn in the Hammer before moving on to South America and then back to Europe.

I also totally agree that Australia has been completely screwed. There are a whack of S.Americans who've played for Italy too, I think. And the Yanks have this problem too, though they have a deeper pool to pull from when it happens. International soccer is getting to be a bit of a waste.

I don't mind if someone doesn't want to play for us. To me, it doesn't matter how "Canadian" they are or not. How long they were here or there. Just don't blame the system. Just don't blame us cutting you at age 15. Don't blame the selection or the coach. Don't use us and then bail. Just don't dick us around.

No, true and in fairness, Jonathan was in Netherlands by age 12 so it's not like he used our youth system to any great extent. Just now with TFC, Impact, Edmonton FC, and Whitecaps are we really starting to even DEVELOP a youth system through club football. Yes, it existed before, but nothing of note which is forthcoming. And like I keep saying, it's 10 years down the road that I'm excited for, for Canadian soccer because of it, if everything holds up!

But STILL marc...he did the interview in a damn canadian jacket. I don't care if that's to support his brother, you HAVE to know that's going to make us angry. I don't condone ignorance of this simple social construct, I obviously scorn it. Have a ****ing clue, Jonathan!

[zeelaw]

@KurtLarSUN: JDG: Think Jonathan is bluffing #TFC #CANMNT

*headexplodes*

Wow, what the **** does that even mean. What is he bluffing?

Is he just trying to leverage us to get a call-up? My head hurts.

[Marc]

Re: madmonte: Oh don't get me wrong I certainly don't begrudge anyone feeling pissed about it all. I'm cranky too!

[zeelaw]

My buddy shawn seems to think that he is trying to show that he is still at a top-club level. And says he wants to play for the dutch until he finds a club... What a ****er. User.

[theaub]

Wow, what the **** does that even mean. What is he bluffing?

Is he just trying to leverage us to get a call-up? My head hurts.

One doesn't simply get called up over Nik Ledgerwood

[killgod]

Another tweet..same thing..

Asked Julian about his bro's comments. He giggled and said he talks with him a lot. Said wouldn't be shocked if it's a bluff. #CANMNT

[jpoma]

Some posts in this thread imply it's impossible to hold both a Canadian and Dutch passport. Is that true? If so, that must be a Dutch law. There are other EU countries that allow dual citizenship, so this whole episode confuses me.

[sose]

Kurt Larsun tweeted that JDG said he wouldn't be shocked if what Jono said was a bluff.

turns out its a secret Canadian plan .. Panama will prep for same old CanMNT team.. then BAM! JDG2 and DJH run out on the field.

[sose]

Some posts in this thread imply it's impossible to hold both a Canadian and Dutch passport. Is that true? If so, that must be a Dutch law. There are other EU countries that allow dual citizenship, so this whole episode confuses me.

see previous thread.. there are only certain situations where Dutch allow dual citizenship.. it's been researched to death

[paul-collins]

[closetboostie]

This is what I don't get. Someone alluded to it earlier in this thread but it just boggles my mind. Jonathan had the opportunity to push Canada to the next level, like he could have been the tipping point for this version of the CMNT. Not only does he possibly get to the World Cup but so does his brother. People in Canadian soccer would never forget him, and his last name, and I'm not talking about the group of degenerates on this board but a large portion of this country would know the name De Guzman after Canada played in the World Cup. Not only would he raise his own profile but his brother's too, who arguably should be more appreciated and well known for what he's done for Canadian soccer.

Contrast that with what looks like a limited opportunity to be in the Dutch squad, if it even exists. Certainly not a place in the first 11. Consider two players of the same level and being considered for a call up, one named De Guzman and the other named Bakker. Who will the Dutch manager pick? This is Europe, not Canada, and they will always take their own. I understand the importance of a European passport all too well, but I also know that if the player is good enough to play on a premier national team, he will find a job as an import in a top league. I think Jonathan has been given poor advice from the wrong people, but what shocks me more than anything else, is he and his inner circle, which obviously doesn't include his brother, don't see the opportunity he has spurned.

ps. I believe the players we have can qualify, not a knock on our loyal men at all. Just trying to understand the view from another's shoes. And struggling.

[Redcoatsforever]

@KurtLarSUN: JDG: Think Jonathan is bluffing #TFC #CANMNT

*headexplodes*

I sincerely hope this wasn't some joke and Jono was like "let's see how the fans react" and we just completely put him off playing for us...goddammit, the De Guzman's have me all-shook-up here...