TFC - MTL (second leg) [R]

[nfitz]

I have nothing to add to this thread except to say that from my experience, casual racism/discrimination/superior attitudes towards French Canadians are pretty common in most of Canada. To have that infect a soccer rivalry would be pretty disappointing.

Who have you observed showing racism against French Canadians? Asians? Inuit? Or is the racism against non-white French Canadians?

Otherwise, I'm not sure I'd say common - but certainly present. Though not as bad as in Quebec, where they actually have laws designed to discriminate against people based on language.

[Keano]

Who have you observed showing racism against French Canadians? Asians? Inuit? Or is the racism against non-white French Canadians?

Otherwise, I'm not sure I'd say common - but certainly present. Though not as bad as in Quebec, where they actually have laws designed to discriminate against people based on language.

It's time to realize you're out of touch with a subject you've ill-advisedly waded into, and move on.

[nfitz]

It's time to realize you're out of touch with a subject you've ill-advisedly waded into, and move on.

I'm sorry. What do you mean. Grizzly above said it it was dubious that Impact fans were tweeting using the term Paki - he was 100% wrong.

And your answer to this racism is to simply say move on? What are you afraid of here? It's a big issue, and we should be talking about it, not ignoring it. Shame on you!

[Grizzly]

I'm sorry. What do you mean. Grizzly above said it it was dubious that Impact fans were tweeting using the term Paki - he was 100% wrong.

And your answer to this racism is to simply say move on? What are you afraid of here? It's a big issue, and we should be talking about it, not ignoring it. Shame on you!

No your claim is still as dubious as ever. You claim Impact fans are tweeting racist stuff and your proof is one guy who is anonymously posting on twitter. Fans is plural by the way. With the magic of google one could search and probably find one fan of almost any team in the world who posts some racist stuff including TFC.

If I find a single TFC fan posting pro-communist tweets can I then make a similar leap of logic like you do and post that TFC is a communist supported club and its supporter groups are being infiltrated by communists?

[nfitz]

No your claim is still as dubious as ever. You claim Impact fans are tweeting racist stuff and your proof is one guy who is anonymously posting on twitter.

That's the most absurd thing I've ever heard. Why are you trying to hard to deny clear racism? Are you a racist as well? It's not like that was the only case that came up during that period.

If I find a single TFC fan posting pro-communist tweets can I then make a similar leap of logic like you do and post that TFC is a communist supported club and its supporter groups are being infiltrated by communists?

Your comparing racism to a political movement? Are you serious? What is wrong with you?

Clearly Montreal Impact supporters have racists in their midsts. It's evil, it's despicable, and your just as bad as they are if you continue to deny it, rather than accept it and deal with it.

And anonymous? It's pretty clear from his twitter feed, that he knows a few Montreal Supporters that aren't anonymous. I'm pretty sure that if you wanted to, you could identify him pretty easily, by just asking a few people. Surprise me and tell me who he is ...

[jpg75]

Good lord, just look at what an innocent attempt at trolling has turned into...

[Keano]

I'm sorry. What do you mean. Grizzly above said it it was dubious that Impact fans were tweeting using the term Paki - he was 100% wrong.

And your answer to this racism is to simply say move on? What are you afraid of here? It's a big issue, and we should be talking about it, not ignoring it. Shame on you!

Your claim that racism is a bigger problem in Quebec is itself racist. Also yes, the best tool to defeat attention whores who say these things is absolutely to ignore them.

[nfitz]

Your claim that racism is a bigger problem in Quebec is itself racist.

Bull****. Has nothing to do with race. As far as I know, I'm the same race as those that are being accused anti-Asian racism.

Why are some Montrealers so desperate to deny the obvious racism that seems to exist among some Impact supporters. Makes me ashamed to have called myself a Montrealer once.

Though that aside ... your kidding yourself if you don't think that racism isn't societally a bigger problem in Quebec than other provinces. Perhaps less so in Montreal, but head out to the suburbs, and especially the rural areas like Lanaudiere and Mauricie. Don't you recall stuff like Herouxville and the Taylor-Bouchard Commission? Some of the testimony at that Commission was scandalous.

[Califax]

Bottom line is, if you're a supporters group, it's OK to rip seats out of a stadium and throw them if some guys you don't know, wearing MTL gear, are being attacked. But if some guys you don't know in MTL gear are saying racist stuff, you disassociate yourself from them and say no one said it.

Bulletproof defense.

[Keano]

Bottom line is, if you're a supporters group, it's OK to rip seats out of a stadium and throw them if some guys you don't know, wearing MTL gear, are being attacked. But if some guys you don't know in MTL gear are saying racist stuff, you disassociate yourself from them and say no one said it.

Bulletproof defense.

No, that's not the bottom line. Bottom line is, as a Montrealer and Impact fan I am in no way responsible for what a couple of yahoos did that happened to also be Montrealers and Impact fans.

And I maintain that to suggest there are more racists in one large group of citizens than in another, based on geography and culture, is itslef intollerance and ignorance of a pitiful level.

[Califax]

No, that's not the bottom line. Bottom line is, as a Montrealer and Impact fan I am in no way responsible for what a couple of yahoos did that happened to also be Montrealers and Impact fans.

And I maintain that to suggest there are more racists in one large group of citizens than in another, based on geography and culture, is itslef intollerance and ignorance of a pitiful level.

Then it's safe to assume that ripping seats out of a stadium and throwing them because you feel fellow supporters are being threatened is a stupid course of action. It's not my problem. If Montreal supporters want to look like racist hooligans and defend it, that's your choice.

[Grizzly]

There has been one Impact fan posting on Twitter who is making racist comments. I condemn his comments but at the same time find it completely ludicrous that TFC fans are trolling here and trying to claim he is a typical Impact fan. If I wanted to bother to do so I could use google to find racist tweets/posts from TFC fans or fans of any other team. However, I will not do so because I am not stupid enough to try to claim that the opinions of a small number of fans represent those of thousands of other fans. However, if we want to talk about use of racist terms, how about the U-Sector banner from a few years ago with the expression, "p'tit frère mongol".

And if we want to compare throwing incidents, lets not forget the metal railing that TFC fans threw off the balcony at Columbus a few years ago for absolutely no reason. That was truly dangerous.

[Califax]

And if we want to compare throwing incidents, lets not forget the metal railing that TFC fans threw off the balcony at Columbus a few years ago for absolutely no reason. That was truly dangerous.

This is my point. Everything is justified when it's your corner of the world, yet it's dangerous when it's Toronto. You'd probably get a lot of credit, if you were to man up and say that it was utter stupidity to rip out chairs and throw them (as it was in Columbus) instead of defending the action and blaming security.

[Grizzly]

This is my point. Everything is justified when it's your corner of the world, yet it's dangerous when it's Toronto. You'd probably get a lot of credit, if you were to man up and say that it was utter stupidity to rip out chairs and throw them (as it was in Columbus) instead of defending the action and blaming security.

I see you ignored the part about the U-Sector banner. So about the manning up part and admitting what your own corner of the world does wrong, are you going to condemn U-Sector for making a banner that was not only racist but also derogatory towards those with Down's Syndrome?

I have also not heard anything from you condemning the TFC fans who attacked the Impact fans nor the security that allowed it to happen.

As to the incidents of throwing things, I will state that it is wrong to throw things off of stands in the majority of cases. Throwing things at a group of opposing fans who are attacking your fans while security does nothing to stop it is another issue altogether. If Montreal fans were just randomly throwing stuff at TFC fans below I would condemn it outright. There is a huge difference between punching someone for no reason and punching someone because they are attacking your friend.

[paul-collins]

Jesus Christ this is tiresome.

Football supporters are all wankers. That's what I learned in this thread.

[Califax]

I see you ignored the part about the U-Sector banner. So about the manning up part and admitting what your own corner of the world does wrong, are you going to condemn U-Sector for making a banner that was not only racist but also derogatory towards those with Down's Syndrome?

I have also not heard anything from you condemning the TFC fans who attacked the Impact fans nor the security that allowed it to happen.

As to the incidents of throwing things, I will state that it is wrong to throw things off of stands in the majority of cases. Throwing things at a group of opposing fans who are attacking your fans while security does nothing to stop it is another issue altogether. If Montreal fans were just randomly throwing stuff at TFC fans below I would condemn it outright. There is a huge difference between punching someone for no reason and punching someone because they are attacking your friend.

That's exactly the response I expect from a "man" of your class Grizz. 8000 posts soon man, you're a message board hero.

[Grizzly]

That's exactly the response I expect from a "man" of your class Grizz. 8000 posts soon man, you're a message board hero.

Whether I waste too much time on the forum is my own business.

I see you chose not to answer any of my points or man up and admit that the TFC fans were wrong to attack Montreal fans or raise racist banners.

However, the richest irony is that you have previously made violent threats against myself on this very forum yet are now presenting yourself as some sort of principled individual to whom I or others should justify their actions. Jaw dropping hypocrisy! A real "man of class" you are!

[Redcoatsforever]

GOOD GOD. DRUNKEN IDIOTS MAKE RACIST REMARKS AND PICK FIGHTS. THIS IS NOT A NEW PHENOMENON.

Now everybody shut the **** up. This match was two ****ing weeks ago, and the event in question involved less than a dozen ****wits anyway. Why in the **** is this important for teams with thousands of supporters coming out??

[Keano]

Then it's safe to assume that ripping seats out of a stadium and throwing them because you feel fellow supporters are being threatened is a stupid course of action. It's not my problem. If Montreal supporters want to look like racist hooligans and defend it, that's your choice.

You don't get it. There's nothing to defend. I was not there.

[Keano]

GOOD GOD. DRUNKEN IDIOTS MAKE RACIST REMARKS AND PICK FIGHTS. THIS IS NOT A NEW PHENOMENON.

Now everybody shut the **** up. This match was two ****ing weeks ago, and the event in question involved less than a dozen ****wits anyway. Why in the **** is this important for teams with thousands of supporters coming out??

*slow clap*

[nfitz]

There has been one Impact fan posting on Twitter who is making racist comments. I condemn his comments but at the same time find it completely ludicrous that TFC fans are trolling here and trying to claim he is a typical Impact fan.

No one has said he is a typical Impact fan. What I've said is there is a problem, and it is being ignored. And it wasn't just a stray tweet either, there's some bizarre racist comments about black in his stream either.

And it's not one Impact fan, as it's clear from his stream, that he wasn't in Toronto. Yet other Impact supporters used the same term here. Which is just odd to me, given how seldom one ever hear's this term. I mean really ... have you heard anyone use this term this century? It's not the 1970s anymore.

However, I will not do so because I am not stupid enough to try to claim that the opinions of a small number of fans represent those of thousands of other fans.

And yet your stupid enough to dismiss the racism claims so quickly. Given your stupidity has already been demonstrated ... what are we arguing here ... simply just how stupid you are? Or is that you are simply rude to try and imply that I'm stupid?

However, if we want to talk about use of racist terms, how about the U-Sector banner from a few years ago with the expression, "p'tit frère mongol".

I'm not sure wehther a phrase in a language I've been slaughtering for decades is racist or not. You didn't seem to have any issue with it, when you and Keano discussed it on this forum with the guy who did the banner 4 years ago. But you have an issue now? Doesn't that make you a hypocrit? Also note the banner wasn't anonymous - you know who did it - so discuss it with him. I really don't see how it is racist ... discriminatory perhaps ... and I hate to comment on a language I'm so poor at ... but I'm pretty sure I've heard the word "mongol" used in casual conversation in Quebec by Francophones ... and I really can't recall hearing it this century in English. If the word still is in common usage in Quebec ... is it discriminatory to use it? Perhaps it's the Quebecois use of the word that's actually the point ... but as I said ... I'm no expert ... and it's not a word I use in French. Or would use ...

And if we want to compare throwing incidents, lets not forget the metal railing that TFC fans threw off the balcony at Columbus a few years ago for absolutely no reason. That was truly dangerous.

If indeed it was thrown - like the chairs that Impact supporters threw at Toronto fans, and not simply knocked over, then yes, it was truly dangerous, and I'm sure the security at Columbus would deal with appropriately. However they did not, as far as I know, actually throw it at a crowd of people beneath them - but I've only, as you, heard the story third-hand. Still, it's vandalism - and not the much worse crime of racism. One is stupid, the other is evil. Montreal has no monopoly on stupid ... that was demonstrated by the idiot TFC supporter that smoked out our own supporters with a flare, that he ran away from, at the Big O.