TFC - MTL (second leg) [R]

[Trillium]

When will security realize you guys live in Eastern Europe? Morons, hey? If a scuffle breaks out, obviously you're going to throw a flare at the attackers and then rip out the seats and start hurling them. It's only natural. Shame on you security.

Back here in Western Civilization, in 2012, the Timbers Army invites to their home brew competition where we try to have a good time and not light each other on fire.

And yet we only get an allocation between 750 and 1500 tickets per match. Sounds to me like Eastern European away supporters need a time out -and by that I mean an all out travel ban, before Garber loses his already short fuse and I can't travel to Portland anymore.

You guys are total ****ing idiots.

Seriously smoking a big bc bud duby and going to the game all mellow does match up to the average TFC fan fueled by after work beer at the local discount watering holes, nor I dare say the state of Montreal fans traveling to TO by bus.

When you talk about home brew are you talking about some kind of coffee competition in Oregon ?

Seriously Vancouver civilized...mmm 2011 NHL hockey riot ?

[Trillium]

+1 Grizz, thank you for being truthful and level about this. I've watched this thread in utter frustration as everybody blamed each other when in reality it's security who failed. Fans are predictable and will always act as fans, incidents will always arise and it's management duty to ensure all precautions are taken.

As a neutral fan who's been to football matches all over the world I know that both sides are to blame, it's not possible that only one side started everything.

I've been to games at BMO, Saputo and the Big O and the security is terrible. There's been a few incidents that I've witnessed in Canada in the last couple years where I thought it by the grace of god no one was seriously injured. It's staggering how much the management could learn from attending a derby or major tournament game in Europe.

From personal experience I can tell you that I've been able to float in and out of "away" sections without a ticket or even a question from security for a TFC vs Impact game.

Very very true, and some club some day is going to be bitten hard on the ass by a incident with serious injurys, and the executives cannot hide from the criminal or civil liabilty if they have failed to respond in a resonable manner to past situations. The away section at TFC is dumb, it puts Montreal fans over the concourse where lots of people walk in and out, hence the banners you see in the videos, so no security on top ropw or railing side, no security saying hey you are visitor you sit and wait then you go and we walk you out.

Leaving Torreon stadium ... escorted to my car, by mexican security, leaving stadium in San Pedro Sula, Military police asking if I needed and escort, its really very simple.

TFC does not get it, and I suspect Best Security in Montreal does not get it yet ether.

[jpg75]

Yes UM guys just go around calling people Paki's for no reason despite the fact we are anti-racist and have many members who are visible minorities. Your account is completely inaccurate and I think one only has to read the rest of your post to see how objective you are. I was not only there but I dealt with BMO security, management and police concerning this issue. That Indian guy and his friends were complete dicks but did not get kicked out of the stadium. If our guys were going to get removed then this guy and his friends should have been removed as well. And any away fan who was removed was supposed to be brought to a holding room inside BMO for their own protection. We were informed before the match this was to be the procedure but they did not follow it.

Yes, my first hand account is completely inaccurate and we should rely on your heresay evidence gathered from one side of the story. Thanks.

Like i said, he called him a Paki first. The TFC fans were trash talking the Impact fans, then the Impact fans said something back and then the TFC fans said something a little more personal and then the Paki word got thrown out there and then the guy got in his face and challenged him and that's when the cops stepped in before it got physical.

[Keano]

This thread is embarrassing.

[JamboAl]

This thread is embarrassing.

+1 million

[Califax]

When will security realize you guys live in Eastern Europe? Morons, hey? If a scuffle breaks out, obviously you're going to throw a flare at the attackers and then rip out the seats and start hurling them. It's only natural. Shame on you security.

Back here in Western Civilization, in 2012, the Timbers Army invites to their home brew competition where we try to have a good time and not light each other on fire.

And yet we only get an allocation between 750 and 1500 tickets per match. Sounds to me like Eastern European away supporters need a time out -and by that I mean an all out travel ban, before Garber loses his already short fuse and I can't travel to Portland anymore.

You guys are total ****ing idiots.

+1. Bottom line, Take some personal responsibility. Security my ass. Don't act like idiots.

I told myself I wasn't even going to click on this thread because I knew it was just gonna be a complete and utter **** show and Grizzly never seems to disappoint.

[Grizzly]

+1. Bottom line, Take some personal responsibility. Security my ass. Don't act like idiots.

I told myself I wasn't even going to click on this thread because I knew it was just gonna be a complete and utter **** show and Grizzly never seems to disappoint.

Ironic.

[Califax]

Ironic.

If all your posts were this short, people might actually take you seriously.

[lattes]

You guys do know you are fighting with the same people you are going to be standing shoulder to shoulder with at CMNT games right?

Look, IMFC is my 'second team' love you to bits except when you play us, I bought seasons for my uncle and his wife just to get more seasons sold to support the club.

That said, I was the one with the kids yelling 'tic tac' up at you all. Same kid has an IMFC kit he bought in Montreal.

This is a FRIENDLY rivalry. Don't take it to personally, and don't forget who the REAL enemy is...

WOMBATS!

Much love and respect to all, now let's all calm down and enjoy beers together while we watch OUR boys beat the snot out of Honduras!

[kyam]

Yes UM guys just go around calling people Paki's for no reason despite the fact we are anti-racist and have many members who are visible minorities.

Nobodies accusing you specifically of being a racist. Its not like we expect YOU to control what every single UM member says to the opposing supporters.

But your argument sounds like somebody going around using the N-word and saying its okay cause they have a black friend… Anti-racist my a**

The fact that you defended the UM member who called somebody a Paki makes me question how “anti-racist” you actually are. “He called him a frog”… that’s about as bad as calling an Anglo a WASP. It’s NOT the same as using the N-word or Paki towards a visual minority.

But why are you surprised that there are UM members from Quebec going around calling people Paki’s? The “Reasonable Accommodation” debate seems to have given Quebeckers the morale support to be intolerant and racist. More hate crimes were reported followings the release of the Bouchard-Taylor Report.

It’s a bit anecdotal, but I know plenty of South Asian immigrants that initially settled in Quebec. All of them give the same reason for why the move out, and I think we all know why... *hint* its not their poor French, immigrants are forced into French school.

Don’t take my word for it. Academia has done research on it on both sides of the Ontario-Quebec border: http://www.concordia.ca/now/what-we-do/research/20111213/new-racism-in-reasonable-accommodation.php

http://www.google.ca/url?q=http://www.gmj.uottawa.ca/1101/v4i1_eid,%2520nahon-serfaty,%2520and%2520ahmed.pdf&sa=U&ei=1fu0T5qKO8Gf6QGvyJXMDw&ved=0CBcQFjAC&sig2=xXDoMu2N2JZNo7BEy1u-dw&usg=AFQjCNGd-PWW3TzQXna-5A5kgEmq02G-Rw

[SteveBeau]

Nobodies accusing you specifically of being a racist. Its not like we expect YOU to control what every single UM member says to the opposing supporters.

But your argument sounds like somebody going around using the N-word and saying its okay cause they have a black friend… Anti-racist my a**

The fact that you defended the UM member who called somebody a Paki makes me question how “anti-racist” you actually are. “He called him a frog”… that’s about as bad as calling an Anglo a WASP. It’s NOT the same as using the N-word or Paki towards a visual minority.

But why are you surprised that there are UM members from Quebec going around calling people Paki’s? The “Reasonable Accommodation” debate seems to have given Quebeckers the morale support to be intolerant and racist. More hate crimes were reported followings the release of the Bouchard-Taylor Report.

It’s a bit anecdotal, but I know plenty of South Asian immigrants that initially settled in Quebec. All of them give the same reason for why the move out, and I think we all know why... *hint* its not their poor French, immigrants are forced into French school.

Don’t take my word for it. Academia has done research on it on both sides of the Ontario-Quebec border: http://www.concordia.ca/now/what-we-do/research/20111213/new-racism-in-reasonable-accommodation.php

http://www.google.ca/url?q=http://www.gmj.uottawa.ca/1101/v4i1_eid,%2520nahon-serfaty,%2520and%2520ahmed.pdf&sa=U&ei=1fu0T5qKO8Gf6QGvyJXMDw&ved=0CBcQFjAC&sig2=xXDoMu2N2JZNo7BEy1u-dw&usg=AFQjCNGd-PWW3TzQXna-5A5kgEmq02G-Rw

Actually using the word "frog" is an ethnic slur and is very pejorative not at all comparable to calling someone a White Anglo Saxon Protestant (WASP) which basically describes what that person is, like calling a Francophone a white roman catholic. It is just the same as using other ethnic based insults despite what YOU may think.

[Yohan]

I don't care whether you felt justified or provoked, but there is no room for violence in soccer or any sports match. ZERO

[SteveBeau]

I don't care whether you felt justified or provoked, but there is no room for violence in soccer or any sports match. ZERO

I'm not sure who you're referring to when you say "you" but if it is to me I must say that:

1) I didn't make the trip to Toronto this year so I wasn't there

2) I was merely answering the previous poster who seems to think that calling people frogs

is no big deal and is not insulting at all.

3) I was in no way commenting on the incident that happened in Toronto.

[kyam]

I was merely answering the previous poster who seems to think that calling people frogs

is no big deal and is not insulting at all.

Yes, WASP is an acronym, I think we are all aware of that. However, when you refer to somebody as "waspy" or a culture as "Waspy", your not simply describing somebody as "white-anglo-saxon protestant"... you are insinuating something else, usually negative.

Both are insulting depending on the tone in which the term was used, nobody is debating that. In fact, if I was francophone and I was called a Frog, I'd be pretty insulted cause its a stupid and ignorant term.

But when a mob of White-francophones (I say "White" because it is the race of majority in Canada) target ONE individual just because they look a certain way (cause you wouldnt call just anybody with a TFC jersey a Paki You'd only use that term if the person looked a certain way), it has different implications than just name calling.

Think about it from this perspective. If a Francophone was to walk along Yonge St, wearing neutral clothing, would a random stranger be able to come up to you and call you a "f**king frog"? No, because you can basically hide among the crowd as a caucasion and escape the same level of discrimination as a result.

Now, take the same scenario and replace the francophone with a South Asian. Pretty easy to identify. The person becomes an easy target...

As insulting as the term FROG or WASP is... If a black guy uses the term "waspy" to describe somebody, most Anglophones reaction would NOT be to call the person a "n-word". Both terms are insulting, but its a case of using a nuclear bomb to neutralize somebody with a shot gun.

That's what Grizzlie is insinuating. That because the term Frog was thrown out their, that its okay that the UM member called the guy a Paki.

[Califax]

Yes, WASP is an acronym, I think we are all aware of that. However, when you refer to somebody as "waspy" or a culture as "Waspy", your not simply describing somebody as "white-anglo-saxon protestant"... you are insinuating something else, usually negative.

Both are insulting depending on the tone in which the term was used, nobody is debating that. In fact, if I was francophone and I was called a Frog, I'd be pretty insulted cause its a stupid and ignorant term.

But when a mob of White-francophones (I say "White" because it is the race of majority in Canada) target ONE individual just because they look a certain way (cause you wouldnt call just anybody with a TFC jersey a Paki You'd only use that term if the person looked a certain way), it has different implications than just name calling.

Think about it from this perspective. If a Francophone was to walk along Yonge St, wearing neutral clothing, would a random stranger be able to come up to you and call you a "f**king frog"? No, because you can basically hide among the crowd as a caucasion and escape the same level of discrimination as a result.

Now, take the same scenario and replace the francophone with a South Asian. Pretty easy to identify. The person becomes an easy target...

As insulting as the term FROG or WASP is... If a black guy uses the term "waspy" to describe somebody, most Anglophones reaction would NOT be to call the person a "n-word". Both terms are insulting, but its a case of using a nuclear bomb to neutralize somebody with a shot gun.

That's what Grizzlie is insinuating. That because the term Frog was thrown out their, that its okay that the UM member called the guy a Paki.

Game. Set. Match. +1

[Lord Bob]

“He called him a frog”… that’s about as bad as calling an Anglo a WASP.

[youllneverwalkalone]

^Are you calling Jean-Luc Picard a ****ing frog? Or Patrick Stewart a ****ing WASP?

[lattes]

Can most at least agree that while taunting someone's club is pretty much OK and really all in good spirits at the end of the day, personally attacking someone by calling them frog/paki/white trash etc is just not cool.

[jpg75]

Can most at least agree that while taunting someone's club is pretty much OK and really all in good spirits at the end of the day, personally attacking someone by calling them frog/paki/white trash etc is just not cool.

Yes.

Impact suck balls.

[nfitz]

The Impact fan called a TFC fan of Indian descent a "Paki".

Some Impact fans were tweeting using the Paki word as well.

I just can't imagine anyone so utterly evil and racist to be using that word in this day and age.

Why are some Impact fans so racist? Surely this is the big issue we should be discussing.

[lattes]

Some Impact fans were tweeting using the Paki word as well.

I just can't imagine anyone so utterly evil and racist to be using that word in this day and age.

Why are some Impact fans so racist? Surely this is the big issue we should be discussing.

Seriously?

If you think there are no racist TFC fans you are high man.

I am a red through and through, but statements like that infer that Montreal in general is racist and Impact fans in particular are racist.

This has turned into the most fcktarded thread ever.

[Keano]

Yes.

Impact suck balls.

Now you're being homophobic too???? You crackas are wack.

[Grizzly]

Some Impact fans were tweeting using the Paki word as well.

I just can't imagine anyone so utterly evil and racist to be using that word in this day and age.

Why are some Impact fans so racist? Surely this is the big issue we should be discussing.

This thread has gotten ridiculous. No one other than the few people involved even knew about this incident even at the time it occurred so it is a pretty dubious claim that Impact fans were tweeting using the term Paki.

To be perfectly clear in my opinion it is always wrong to use racial or ethnic insults against others. However, anyone that goes around looking for trouble and using insults like the Indian guy did should not be surprised if he gets likewise in return nor will he get any sympathy from me if it happens. Also the UM members involved absolutely deny using the term Paki in the confrontation. I did not see or hear everything during the incident so I am not stating things one way or the other but JPG's description of the event is highly biased and inaccurate with both what I did see/hear and also what I was told not only by the UM guys involved but by BMO security and TFC management. This is an old incident anyway so I do not know why we are discussing it.

My problem with the comments in this thread is many (not all) TFC fans are presenting things like we come to a friendly stadium in Toronto the Good and act like total *******s without any provocation whatsoever. I am not even francophone but I have been called just about every anti-French slur imaginable at BMO and some I had never even heard before. I have had tons of stuff thrown at me, had people try to steal my scarf, had a guy throw a full beer in my face while I wasn't even looking in his direction (kind of a beer throwing sucker punch ) and many other incidents too numerous to mention. I am not complaining or bitching about it either, stuff like that can happen at a derby and the hatred and passion is one of the reasons I and others love these games. But I'll be damned if after I see all this stuff happen to me and my friends if I am going to then idly listen while whatever incident that results from such acts is solely blamed on us.

A derby will always have the potential for problems but good security can minimize the problems. It is not impossible to do, indeed the first and I think even the second year (don't remember for sure) we went to TO BMO security was quite good. Afterwards it went completely downhill for reasons I do not know. Nor am I claiming security is any better in Montreal or that TFC fans don't suffer any abuse from home fans here.

To return to the current incident, we have a video in which it is clear that the incident started when two lone Impact fans were attacked by TFC fans at the main entrance of the stadium. The guy who made the video even saw and commented on the end of the fight and even if he missed the start it does not take much brains to figure out what happened. Yet he and many here are presenting it as bad UM guys who are destroying the stadium and endangering innocent TFC fans because we are bad guys who are pissed off at losing the game. If TFC fans or anyone else want to condemn what happened then fine. But if they want any credibility on the issue they sure as hell should start their condemnation with a condemnation of the TFC fans who attacked the two guys and the BMO security who did nothing about it until the flare was thrown.

[nfitz]

If you think there are no racist TFC fans you are high man.

I see no need to be rude here. I'm sure there's a few ... but it does seem odd to me, that I don't recall ever seeing a racist comment or tweet from a TFC fan, despite that being most of my interaction ... and I interact very seldom with Impact fans, and yet I've seen racist comments. That indicates to me that they have a huge problem ... and I'm not sure why you'd be so quick to dismiss it.

I am a red through and through, but statements like that infer that Montreal in general is racist and Impact fans in particular are racist.

It's a Canada forum, isn't everyone red through and through? Montreal isn't racist ... lived there for years, it's a very multi-cultural city.

This thread has gotten ridiculous. No one other than the few people involved even knew about this incident even at the time it occurred so it is a pretty dubious claim that Impact fans were tweeting using the term Paki.

Why do you say it's a dubious claim? It's a fact. The tweet is still there

This is an old incident anyway so I do not know why we are discussing it.

We are discussing it because you have racists in your midsts, and your denying it rather than dealing with it. Given use of such a racist term is so unusual, that your supporters don't seem to have any problem putting it in writing, it shouldn't surprise anyone that they said it out loud.

[jonovision]

I have nothing to add to this thread except to say that from my experience, casual racism/discrimination/superior attitudes towards French Canadians are pretty common in most of Canada. To have that infect a soccer rivalry would be pretty disappointing.