TFC - MTL (second leg) [R]

[Grizzly]

http://viewfromthesouthstands.com/2012/05/impact-lose/

I just saw this video about what happened at the end of the game (at the end of the video). Some people are true idiots, throwing seats at people from the top of the stands....someone could get seriously injured. Don't like to see that in the Voyageurs Cup.

Security was an absolute disaster at BMO for the game. They have no plan or security strategy and completely incompetent people carrying it out. I used to be the one who contacted TFC when we went to Toronto and year after year I would tell them what they should do to improve security and year after year they do not do it or anything else sensible. For example, they have constantly been told that they need to have a security guard at all times by the washroom we share with TFC fans because we are continually outnumbered there and there are many incidents. Security will show up occasionally there but much of the time they are absent. It is absolutely unsafe for any of us to use the washroom alone during the game and not even very safe going in groups because we are always outnumbered. Since the only thing TFC/MLSE seem to understand is money, I hope they are reading this because I have copies of numerous mails I have sent to the club with regards to security for away fans. If someone gets seriously injured due to the lack of proper security at BMO they will possibly get sued and these letters will be very good evidence of their security negligence.

Additionally, why are away fans placed where they are in BMO? Having the away fans above the area where TFC fans enter and exit the stadium is a recipe for disaster and further security negligence on TFC's part. The away fans should be behind the goal nearest to where the bus comes so it is easiest to get fans in and out of the stadium with minimal contact with home fans. Just like in almost every other stadium in MLS/the world. Obviously TFC could not do this before the stand behind the north side goal was built but since they have had this stand for two years now there is no reason that the away section should not have been moved.

As to the incident on the video: we had a full bus of people at the stadium and also a number of supporters who drove on their own or lived in Toronto. Obviously with MLS there are a lot of new fans some of whom do not know the usual procedures and it seems a couple of Montreal fans left the section a minute or two before the end of the game. BMO security is actually supposed to come around the 80th minute and prevent anyone from leaving the away section but they did not do this. At the end of the game these two fans were leaving the stadium and were attacked by TFC fans with no security present whatsoever. By this time we were confined to the top and seeing two of our fans being attacked someone threw a flare at those attacking them. It was only after the flare was thrown that security came and stopped the guys attacking the Montreal fans the end of which you can see on the video at 6:30.

Additionally, after the police calmed things down in our section two BMO security guys, Tim and Josh, who were not among the security detail assigned to the away section came charging up the stairs into our section and attacked us. Indeed the police then had to break up fight between Josh and one of our members. When there are 20 policemen in the section who have more or less calmed the situation, why are BMO security guys running into the section and causing problems?

These are heated games and there is always the potential for problems between fans. That is precisely why the clubs should be providing good security to avoid such problems. Having the away fans in a poor spot to begin with, not putting security in places where there is contact between the fans, allowing fans to leave the away section at the end of the game and then not providing security where fans are leaving the stadium are all instance of gross neglect and incompetence on BMO/TFC's part. What makes it worse is they have been warned time and time again that they need to fix these problems and they do nothing. I thought about writing them to complain but it is just a waste of my time, they do not listen.

And before anyone accuses me of bias, I am fully aware that security at the Impact games is just as poor for both home and away fans and yes the Impact are constantly told how to do things better and ignore the advice as well. I can understand in the first year or two of the teams playing each other that the clubs were not used to the situation and did not understand how to run security but it is unacceptable that after several years things have not improved at all.

[Grizzly]

As to the game, I was worried how the team would react to being favourites in a match and unfortunately they did not react well. This was definitely our poorest match of the year. I was not really happy with the lineup we fielded either but it seems like Marsh is wanting to rotate players through the lineup and is saving the stronger lineups for MLS. With Olympic stadium being sold out for the LA/Beckham game I guess that is getting more importance. Nevertheless it was a decent enough lineup on the field that we should have played much better especially with TFC down to 10 men.

This game showed the weaknesses of the Impact. The fullbacks are very weak and each of Wahl and Brovsky was responsible for a goal against. Our offence has been better than expected this year but it is very sporadic and we lack finishing or more precisely a finisher. We have no player that we can put on the field when we need a goal, no reliable scorer. Corradi will be a good secondary striker but is not really the guy to be playing alone up top. Nyassi is really fast and dangerous but not a good finisher. Sebrango might be able to fill this role but needs to play regularly if he is to do so. Wenger has been pretty good in his limited time on the field. In reality we really could use Ali Gerba right now although if Di Vaio does sign with us he will take over that role. Not a particularly well coached game on Marsh's part either. And why does De Klerk go after Marsh at the end?

[Heathen]

Security was an absolute disaster at BMO for the game. They have no plan or security strategy and completely incompetent people carrying it out. I used to be the one who contacted TFC when we went to Toronto and year after year I would tell them what they should do to improve security and year after year they do not do it or anything else sensible. For example, they have constantly been told that they need to have a security guard at all times by the washroom we share with TFC fans because we are continually outnumbered there and there are many incidents. Security will show up occasionally there but much of the time they are absent. It is absolutely unsafe for any of us to use the washroom alone during the game and not even very safe going in groups because we are always outnumbered. Since the only thing TFC/MLSE seem to understand is money, I hope they are reading this because I have copies of numerous mails I have sent to the club with regards to security for away fans. If someone gets seriously injured due to the lack of proper security at BMO they will possibly get sued and these letters will be very good evidence of their security negligence.

Additionally, why are away fans placed where they are in BMO? Having the away fans above the area where TFC fans enter and exit the stadium is a recipe for disaster and further security negligence on TFC's part. The away fans should be behind the goal nearest to where the bus comes so it is easiest to get fans in and out of the stadium with minimal contact with home fans. Just like in almost every other stadium in MLS/the world. Obviously TFC could not do this before the stand behind the north side goal was built but since they have had this stand for two years now there is no reason that the away section should not have been moved.

As to the incident on the video: we had a full bus of people at the stadium and also a number of supporters who drove on their own or lived in Toronto. Obviously with MLS there are a lot of new fans some of whom do not know the usual procedures and it seems a couple of Montreal fans left the section a minute or two before the end of the game. BMO security is actually supposed to come around the 80th minute and prevent anyone from leaving the away section but they did not do this. At the end of the game these two fans were leaving the stadium and were attacked by TFC fans with no security present whatsoever. By this time we were confined to the top and seeing two of our fans being attacked someone threw a flare at those attacking them. It was only after the flare was thrown that security came and stopped the guys attacking the Montreal fans the end of which you can see on the video at 6:30.

Additionally, after the police calmed things down in our section two BMO security guys, Tim and Josh, who were not among the security detail assigned to the away section came charging up the stairs into our section and attacked us. Indeed the police then had to break up fight between Josh and one of our members. When there are 20 policemen in the section who have more or less calmed the situation, why are BMO security guys running into the section and causing problems?

These are heated games and there is always the potential for problems between fans. That is precisely why the clubs should be providing good security to avoid such problems. Having the away fans in a poor spot to begin with, not putting security in places where there is contact between the fans, allowing fans to leave the away section at the end of the game and then not providing security where fans are leaving the stadium are all instance of gross neglect and incompetence on BMO/TFC's part. What makes it worse is they have been warned time and time again that they need to fix these problems and they do nothing. I thought about writing them to complain but it is just a waste of my time, they do not listen.

And before anyone accuses me of bias, I am fully aware that security at the Impact games is just as poor for both home and away fans and yes the Impact are constantly told how to do things better and ignore the advice as well. I can understand in the first year or two of the teams playing each other that the clubs were not used to the situation and did not understand how to run security but it is unacceptable that after several years things have not improved at all.

I didn't think it was possible to write that much on the subject without admitting the slightest culpability on your own fan's part, well done.

[Grizzly]

I didn't think it was possible to write that much on the subject without admitting the slightest culpability on your own fan's part, well done.

Yes your previous post on the subject was quite an example of objectivity:

As on previous visits some of the Impact fans spat on threw objects (at least a couple of ripped out seats, lighters and a lit flare) at TFC fans walking past below them. Apparently they got into it with the cops too.

Every year it is the same thing. We get attacked and threatened in the concourse and washroom, things are thrown at us constantly in the away section, there is a constant stream of racial insults and TFC and its security does nothing to stop any of this even though every year they are told what happened and how to prevent it next time. And then when some incident happens TFC fans go on various forums claiming how the evil UM guys did something bad to the innocent TFC fans.

Did all of our fans act like angels? No. But TFC with its gross negligence of and incompetence in implementing security creates the conditions for incidents like this to occur. For F-ucks sake, they could not even protect two guys in Impact scarves walking out of the main gate of the stadium where there should be lots of security. Had they provided even this minimal level of security the incident would not have occurred.

[kj52]

After having watched the game on TV and having a couple of spare minutes this a.m. to read this thread, and particularly after reading Grizzly's (painfully) wordy thoughts - I have to say that I'm very happy that TFC won the game and booted the Impact out of this competition!

[Heathen]

Yes your previous post on the subject was quite an example of objectivity:

Every year it is the same thing. We get attacked and threatened in the concourse and washroom, things are thrown at us constantly in the away section, there is a constant stream of racial insults and TFC and its security does nothing to stop any of this even though every year they are told what happened and how to prevent it next time. And then when some incident happens TFC fans go on various forums claiming how the evil UM guys did something bad to the innocent TFC fans.

Did all of our fans act like angels? No. But TFC with its gross negligence of and incompetence in implementing security creates the conditions for incidents like this to occur. For F-ucks sake, they could not even protect two guys in Impact scarves walking out of the main gate of the stadium where there should be lots of security. Had they provided even this minimal level of security the incident would not have occurred.

Tell me exactly what in my first post is subjective, explain what was untrue there? I'm sorry innocent fans are threatened and attacked that's wrong but so is throwing flares, ripped out seats and spitting on people. You know unless something is done this is going to just get nastier and putting all the repsonsibility on security and taking none ourselves isn't the way to stop that.

[jpg75]

A few years ago i witnessed an incident under the away section while waiting in line for a beer. The Impact fan called a TFC fan of Indian descent a "Paki". He and the couple of friends he was with were lucky they weren't beaten to a pulp by the guy and his buddies and they have security(Police) to thank for that. If that's the kind of behaviour being exhibited by Impact fans when "they're outnumbered" then I can just imagine what kind of @ssholes these people are. IMO, anyone who doesn't have the common sense to shut their mouth and let a little trash talk slide off their back when surrounded by 20,000 enemy fans deserves to get their asses kicked.

[Greatest Cockney Rip Off]

Security was an absolute disaster at BMO for the game. They have no plan or security strategy and completely incompetent people carrying it out. I used to be the one who contacted TFC when we went to Toronto and year after year I would tell them what they should do to improve security and year after year they do not do it or anything else sensible. For example, they have constantly been told that they need to have a security guard at all times by the washroom we share with TFC fans because we are continually outnumbered there and there are many incidents. Security will show up occasionally there but much of the time they are absent. It is absolutely unsafe for any of us to use the washroom alone during the game and not even very safe going in groups because we are always outnumbered. Since the only thing TFC/MLSE seem to understand is money, I hope they are reading this because I have copies of numerous mails I have sent to the club with regards to security for away fans. If someone gets seriously injured due to the lack of proper security at BMO they will possibly get sued and these letters will be very good evidence of their security negligence.

Additionally, why are away fans placed where they are in BMO? Having the away fans above the area where TFC fans enter and exit the stadium is a recipe for disaster and further security negligence on TFC's part. The away fans should be behind the goal nearest to where the bus comes so it is easiest to get fans in and out of the stadium with minimal contact with home fans. Just like in almost every other stadium in MLS/the world. Obviously TFC could not do this before the stand behind the north side goal was built but since they have had this stand for two years now there is no reason that the away section should not have been moved.

As to the incident on the video: we had a full bus of people at the stadium and also a number of supporters who drove on their own or lived in Toronto. Obviously with MLS there are a lot of new fans some of whom do not know the usual procedures and it seems a couple of Montreal fans left the section a minute or two before the end of the game. BMO security is actually supposed to come around the 80th minute and prevent anyone from leaving the away section but they did not do this. At the end of the game these two fans were leaving the stadium and were attacked by TFC fans with no security present whatsoever. By this time we were confined to the top and seeing two of our fans being attacked someone threw a flare at those attacking them. It was only after the flare was thrown that security came and stopped the guys attacking the Montreal fans the end of which you can see on the video at 6:30.

Additionally, after the police calmed things down in our section two BMO security guys, Tim and Josh, who were not among the security detail assigned to the away section came charging up the stairs into our section and attacked us. Indeed the police then had to break up fight between Josh and one of our members. When there are 20 policemen in the section who have more or less calmed the situation, why are BMO security guys running into the section and causing problems?

These are heated games and there is always the potential for problems between fans. That is precisely why the clubs should be providing good security to avoid such problems. Having the away fans in a poor spot to begin with, not putting security in places where there is contact between the fans, allowing fans to leave the away section at the end of the game and then not providing security where fans are leaving the stadium are all instance of gross neglect and incompetence on BMO/TFC's part. What makes it worse is they have been warned time and time again that they need to fix these problems and they do nothing. I thought about writing them to complain but it is just a waste of my time, they do not listen.

And before anyone accuses me of bias, I am fully aware that security at the Impact games is just as poor for both home and away fans and yes the Impact are constantly told how to do things better and ignore the advice as well. I can understand in the first year or two of the teams playing each other that the clubs were not used to the situation and did not understand how to run security but it is unacceptable that after several years things have not improved at all.

So when do you get the part where seats were ripped apart from the stadium and thrown at unsuspecting passers by 100 feet beneath you?

[BeepBeepImaJeep]

For F-ucks sake, they could not even protect two guys in Impact scarves walking out of the main gate of the stadium where there should be lots of security. Had they provided even this minimal level of security the incident would not have occurred.

Maybe if away fans didn't do something so dangerously stupid like that in the first place it could have been avoided much easier. I love the fact that you use that as an excuse to throw chairs and flairs down on supporters below. Well done.

[kyam]

Every year it is the same thing. We get attacked and threatened in the concourse and washroom, things are thrown at us constantly in the away section...And then when some incident happens TFC fans go on various forums claiming how the evil UM guys did something bad to the innocent TFC fans.

I'll try to be objective here, the lack of security may or may not have led to the seat throwing and other confrontations. Anybody in the security industry has a basic understanding that most confrontations at major events can be avoided if up-front steps are taken in advance. So I think Grizzily has a point. The seat throwing incident can be spur-of-the-moment, and could have been an act of emotion from UM members who felt targeted. Its a legitimate explanation.

However, there was also flares at the scene. Some UM members, made the pre-meditated effort to buy the flares and to smuggle them in. Its clear what they bought them for, to throw them. If they simply wanted to light them without throwing them somewhere, they'd get themselves kicked out cause they'd be caught red handed with a flare in there hand. For me, this has nothing to do with BMO Security, and everything to do with a small group of UM members looking cause trouble.

Toronto Police had every right to tackle them in the flare case...

...there is a constant stream of racial insults and TFC and its security does nothing to stop any of this even though every year they are told what happened and how to prevent it next time.

Way to play the Victim Card here. So typical of Quebec’s victim mentality. No wonder my spouse grew up in Montreal wanting to leave… how can anybody with the slightest bit of ambition move forward when you’re constantly looking for a way to blame somebody else for your problems?

Your rant reminds me of the Quebec Students who went down to Toronto for the G20 protests. People were arrested, targeted and beaten by police left right and centre. This includes Torontonians, Americans, Quebeckers, African's, Arabs, Asians, Latino's etc....

As soon as a few dozen Quebeckers get arrested along with thousands of other ANGLO-CANADIANS, the UdeM students go to the media to complain that they were targeted cause they were French, as if the whole G20 police were targeting them alone.

Sorry Grizz, as soon as you played the race card in a city like Toronto, which is statistically more diverse than Montreal, you lost me. Last time I checked, the French is not a race. Unless you think you were targeted cause you were WHITE?

DC United supporters were seated in the exact same section, no problems reported. Vancouver Supporters, another group of away supporters that have potential to lead to an explosive situation, no seat throwing, no flares.

It just seems like another case of a Quebecker from Montreal wanting special treatment cause they happen to be from La Belle Province. Maybe I’m wrong.

But it’s not like this is the first time Montreal sports fans (or otherwise) are seen rioting/causing trouble over spilt milk, and then turning around to play the victim card in front of the media… (C’mon, $3000 university tuition? I paid twice that, plus Grad School tuition and left with ZERO debt thanks to a few part-time jobs).

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

[kyam]

And why does De Klerk go after Marsh at the end?

That's the million dollar question. It was very strange. Marsh looked like he wanted to shake his hand and De Klerk went right at him. Although it seemed like, it was nothing more than a yelling match. The ref over-reacted and shoved him away, so the incident look worst than it was.

I love De Klerk, the guy has a ton of passion. But I don't think he realizes how it looks when somebody with his face and his head goes at somebody like that.

When I see Winter's absolute calm in all situations (to the point where it gets annoying), and then I look at De Klerk. Its like they removed Winter's fire and gave it to De Klerk!

[tmcmurph]

While it is usually just a few jerks it will be those few jerks who ruin it for the lot of you on both sides. Maybe try a tailgate party before the game and invite the other supporters just to break the ice and get to know each other. I'm not suggesting crashing each others pre-game pubs or anything like that but when invited have a brew together.

The Timbers Army has put on some in the past and invited the Southsiders. Some of the pubs frequented by the TA donated a keg and Vancouver supporters bought beer thereby indirectly supporting the TA. Weird but it seems to work out on the left coast. Might be something to consider.

[kyam]

While it is usually just a few jerks it will be those few jerks who ruin it for the lot of you on both sides. Maybe try a tailgate party before the game and invite the other supporters just to break the ice and get to know each other. I'm not suggesting crashing each others pre-game pubs or anything like that but when invited have a brew together.

The Timbers Army has put on some in the past and invited the Southsiders. Some of the pubs frequented by the TA donated a keg and Vancouver supporters bought beer thereby indirectly supporting the TA. Weird but it seems to work out on the left coast. Might be something to consider.

Yes ive heard of of Timbers Supporters doing stuff like that.

Here in Ottawa, i have a small group of supporters, including couple of whitecaps supporters that come out... Maybe its different in Ottaws cause we're in neutral territory (even though tfc supporters seem the most dominant here). But i had both TFC and whitecaps supporters at my place enjoying back to back mls matches, over beer and my sigature bbq ribs.

There is also a culture/language barrier between Impact Supporters and TFC supporters that dont exist to the same extent in Cascadia.

As ignorant as some impact supporters are, particularly francophones who make assumptions about English Canada, its a two way street.

I once saw a confrontation betwwen a Leaf and Hab fan that started cause a francophone hab fan made an innocent unrelated comment in french (i dont recall the comment)

The Leaf fan freaks out and starts insulting the Hab fan, thinking the poor guy said something negative.

U see the world differently when u understand both languages...

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

[Lord Bob]

Thanks for the reality check, Grizzly. We all know that some Toronto FC supporters can be real thugs but it's shocking the way MLSE security can enable them from time to time and the way they treat away supporters as people who'll hopefully be beaten into submission so they can sell those away seats to good, loyal Torontonians.

[Grizzly]

Maybe if away fans didn't do something so dangerously stupid like that in the first place it could have been avoided much easier. I love the fact that you use that as an excuse to throw chairs and flairs down on supporters below. Well done.

These two fans were not UM members nor part of the bus trip, they were simply guys who bought tickets and joined us in the away section. I have never seen them before. Obviously they did not know they were not supposed to leave the section before the game ended. TFC security is supposed to be there at the 80th minute anyway to prevent anyone from leaving but they did not do so. I was not the security contact with TFC this year but in previous years they have told us that this was their plan and sometimes they did it and sometimes they did not. I imagine the security contact this year was told the same thing.

The two fans were not guys trying to sneak around the back to attack RPB or USector. If they were I would have no sympathy for them. Nor were they at some remote part of the stadium. These were just two regular guys who thought they could leave a minute or two early and go to their car to avoid the traffic. They left the main entrance of the stadium to go to the main parking lot and there was absolutely no security to protect them. This is an area that should have security even in games with no away fans let alone when a bitter rival is in town.

This incident was caused by the TFC fans who attacked two Impact fans and the security that made absolutely no effort to attack them. The flare was not thrown at innocent bystanders, it was thrown at those TFC fans attacking the Impact fans. The flare is what saved the Impact fans from getting beat up by a large number of home supporters. Security only came after the flare was thrown. When we see our fans attacked and outnumbered by home fans and no security to help them we have every right to help our own in fans in whatever manner necessary.

[Grizzly]

A few years ago i witnessed an incident under the away section while waiting in line for a beer. The Impact fan called a TFC fan of Indian descent a "Paki". He and the couple of friends he was with were lucky they weren't beaten to a pulp by the guy and his buddies and they have security(Police) to thank for that. If that's the kind of behaviour being exhibited by Impact fans when "they're outnumbered" then I can just imagine what kind of @ssholes these people are. IMO, anyone who doesn't have the common sense to shut their mouth and let a little trash talk slide off their back when surrounded by 20,000 enemy fans deserves to get their asses kicked.

You are very conveniently leaving out the part of the incident where the guy of Indian descent got into the face of the Impact fans and said among other things, "You fu-cking frogs are not fu-cking Canadians and should get the fu-ck out of Canada." among other things. Oh but I forgot in your TFC world Impact fans are supposed to let racial or ethnic slurs slide off our back while the TFC fans can say what they like. And then the security and police continued to make anti-French slurs before kicking the guys out of the stadium (not keeping them in a room in a stadium for their safety as was agreed to before the match) and standing by laughing at them as home fans were threatening them as they exited the stadium while at the same time saying if they put one foot back on stadium property they would be arrested. When I found out what was happening by the magic of cell phone, I actually had to call a TFC VP to get security to do an extraction of the fans from the extremely dangerous situation that was developing. But yes once again in TFC fantasy land it is UM and the Impact fans who are totally to blame for this.

[jpg75]

You are very conveniently leaving out the part of the incident where the guy of Indian descent got into the face of the Impact fans and said among other things, "You fu-cking frogs are not fu-cking Canadians and should get the fu-ck out of Canada." among other things. Oh but I forgot in your TFC world Impact fans are supposed to let racial or ethnic slurs slide off our back while the TFC fans can say what they like. And then the security and police continued to make anti-French slurs before kicking the guys out of the stadium (not keeping them in a room in a stadium for their safety as was agreed to before the match) and standing by laughing at them as home fans were threatening them as they exited the stadium while at the same time saying if they put one foot back on stadium property they would be arrested. When I found out what was happening by the magic of cell phone, I actually had to call a TFC VP to get security to do an extraction of the fans from the extremely dangerous situation that was developing. But yes once again in TFC fantasy land it is UM and the Impact fans who are totally to blame for this.

He called him a Paki first Grizz, you poke a bear you should expect a reaction. IMO those tools probably deserved to get taken to the wood shed and made an example of, bunch of wannabe tough guys with a mouth bigger than they are.

[Keano]

Suffice it to say that it is not surprising in the LEAST that the these types of stories do not arise after hundreds of TFC fans attend an Impact home game. No one here cares about Ontarians enough to bother harassing them. Anglo Canada is obsessed with Quebec. It's bizarre. If we were people you'd have a restraining order

[RS]

Suffice it to say that it is not surprising in the LEAST that the these types of stories do not arise after hundreds of TFC fans attend an Impact home game. No one here cares about Ontarians enough to bother harassing them. Anglo Canada is obsessed with Quebec. It's bizarre. If we were people you'd have a restraining order

I'm REALLY trying to stay out of this thread, but on this subject you are dead wrong.

There have been several incidents in Montreal over the years where TFC fans were harrassed, spat on, and even jumped by Montrealers while at both Saputo and Olympic Stadiums (and before Grizzly jumps in, this has absolutely been a two-way street).

I'll go back to lurking this thread now.

[Grizzly]

He called him a Paki first Grizz, you poke a bear you should expect a reaction. IMO those tools probably deserved to get taken to the wood shed and made an example of, bunch of wannabe tough guys with a mouth bigger than they are.

Yes UM guys just go around calling people Paki's for no reason despite the fact we are anti-racist and have many members who are visible minorities. Your account is completely inaccurate and I think one only has to read the rest of your post to see how objective you are. I was not only there but I dealt with BMO security, management and police concerning this issue. That Indian guy and his friends were complete dicks but did not get kicked out of the stadium. If our guys were going to get removed then this guy and his friends should have been removed as well. And any away fan who was removed was supposed to be brought to a holding room inside BMO for their own protection. We were informed before the match this was to be the procedure but they did not follow it.

Additionally, before the match I informed TFC that the area where this incident occurred was very dangerous and that there should be security present at all times. They told me that they would do this and they did not. Nor was their security in this area this year. Having adequate security is putting security at places were incidents can happen so they can be prevented it is not letting incidents happen and then sending large numbers of cops and guards into the area to beat people up and expel them after the fact.

And this year the number of security guards and police was absolutely massive. Yet they were somehow unable to place one guard in the washroom/concessions area, they were unable to stop two away fans from leaving the section at the end of the game, they were unable to provide any security in the main entrance or the pathway to the main parking area. Something is seriously fu-cked up in their security planning! TFC runs their security as competently as they run their team.

[Grizzly]

I'm REALLY trying to stay out of this thread, but on this subject you are dead wrong.

There have been several incidents in Montreal over the years where TFC fans were harrassed, spat on, and even jumped by Montrealers while at both Saputo and Olympic Stadiums (and before Grizzly jumps in, this has absolutely been a two-way street).

I'll go back to lurking this thread now.

Yet again one of those rare moments where I actually agree with Rudi. These are heated games, sh-it happens, in the majority of incidents neither side is entirely innocent. However, with decent security procedures many of the problems could be very easily avoided. The security provided by both teams is an absolute disgrace. They have had 6 years now to learn from their mistakes and seem to have learned nothing. They have had six years of getting sound advice on how to prevent things from myself and others and have ignored it. I am starting to think it will take a serious incident and one of the clubs getting sued for them to finally start acting sensibly.

[BuzzAndSting]

Yet again one of those rare moments where I actually agree with Rudi. These are heated games, sh-it happens, in the majority of incidents neither side is entirely innocent. However, with decent security procedures many of the problems could be very easily avoided. The security provided by both teams is an absolute disgrace. They have had 6 years now to learn from their mistakes and seem to have learned nothing. They have had six years of getting sound advice on how to prevent things from myself and others and have ignored it. I am starting to think it will take a serious incident and one of the clubs getting sued for them to finally start acting sensibly.

+1 Grizz, thank you for being truthful and level about this. I've watched this thread in utter frustration as everybody blamed each other when in reality it's security who failed. Fans are predictable and will always act as fans, incidents will always arise and it's management duty to ensure all precautions are taken.

As a neutral fan who's been to football matches all over the world I know that both sides are to blame, it's not possible that only one side started everything.

I've been to games at BMO, Saputo and the Big O and the security is terrible. There's been a few incidents that I've witnessed in Canada in the last couple years where I thought it by the grace of god no one was seriously injured. It's staggering how much the management could learn from attending a derby or major tournament game in Europe.

From personal experience I can tell you that I've been able to float in and out of "away" sections without a ticket or even a question from security for a TFC vs Impact game.

[LSM]

Would it be possible for the various supporters groups (UM02, RPB, NEE, etc) to get together and send a joint letter to the league about this?

Pressure from there would probably get peoples' asses in gear.

[Keano]

I'm REALLY trying to stay out of this thread, but on this subject you are dead wrong.

There have been several incidents in Montreal over the years where TFC fans were harrassed, spat on, and even jumped by Montrealers while at both Saputo and Olympic Stadiums (and before Grizzly jumps in, this has absolutely been a two-way street).

I'll go back to lurking this thread now.

Not trying to be untruthful, just happen not to have seen any of this myself here. Absolutely all regions have their share of idiots.

As evidenced by the little yellow guy in my post I was trying to troll a bit, as befits a thread such as this, which is essentially a large troll-fest.

[youllneverwalkalone]

When will security realize you guys live in Eastern Europe? Morons, hey? If a scuffle breaks out, obviously you're going to throw a flare at the attackers and then rip out the seats and start hurling them. It's only natural. Shame on you security.

Back here in Western Civilization, in 2012, the Timbers Army invites to their home brew competition where we try to have a good time and not light each other on fire.

And yet we only get an allocation between 750 and 1500 tickets per match. Sounds to me like Eastern European away supporters need a time out -and by that I mean an all out travel ban, before Garber loses his already short fuse and I can't travel to Portland anymore.

You guys are total ****ing idiots.