tmcmurph Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Well it wasn't pretty but it was a win. 1 goal from Camillo and not much more. Caps had, and gave up, a few other chances but a clean sheet will get you points. I really thought we played better in our loss to Kansas but I'll take it. Not that it was terrible or winning ugly but sloppy midfield action where both teams took turns turning the ball over. A lot of good performances on a rather weird night. Watson, Koffie, Davidson, Bonjour, Salgado (as a winger), LeToux, along with the goal scorer and YP Lee all played very good. We just couldn't keep any momentum going. Back and forth in the middle third and trying to thread the needle when a simple outlet out the wing would work better etc etc etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soccerpro Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Will we see a Canadian besides Rochat in MLS this year for the Caps? Honest question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmcmurph Posted April 22, 2012 Author Share Posted April 22, 2012 Will we see a Canadian besides Rochat in MLS this year for the Caps? Honest question. Don't worry they'll sign Lensky and OH soon. I kid, I kid I don't know. They have a good run going with the players they have and are getting MLS results. The U18 and U16 are also doing good. One of the coaching staff (I don't remember who) said it would be 3-4 years before the academy kids would be ready for MLS. I would love to see Tiebert get some first team time and he might during V's Cup games. In time they will produce but for now why rush it? It won't do the players any good if they aren't ready and it won't help the results in the league. We are a long way from there but most players that could start for the Caps are taken by other teams already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Bob Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Will we see a Canadian besides Rochat in MLS this year for the Caps? Honest question. You don't win games with Canadians! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob.notenboom Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Well it wasn't pretty but it was a win. 1 goal from Camillo and not much more. Caps had, and gave up, a few other chances but a clean sheet will get you points. I really thought we played better in our loss to Kansas but I'll take it. Not that it was terrible or winning ugly but sloppy midfield action where both teams took turns turning the ball over. A lot of good performances on a rather weird night. Watson, Koffie, Davidson, Bonjour, Salgado (as a winger), LeToux, along with the goal scorer and YP Lee all played very good. We just couldn't keep any momentum going. Back and forth in the middle third and trying to thread the needle when a simple outlet out the wing would work better etc etc etc. Well it wasn't pretty but it was a win. 1 goal from Camillo and not much more. Caps had, and gave up, a few other chances but a clean sheet will get you points. I really thought we played better in our loss to Kansas but I'll take it. Not that it was terrible or winning ugly but sloppy midfield action where both teams took turns turning the ball over. A lot of good performances on a rather weird night. Watson, Koffie, Davidson, Bonjour, Salgado (as a winger), LeToux, along with the goal scorer and YP Lee all played very good. We just couldn't keep any momentum going. Back and forth in the middle third and trying to thread the needle when a simple outlet out the wing would work better etc etc etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKottonmouthed1555362307 Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Will we see a Canadian besides Rochat in MLS this year for the Caps? Honest question. Who cares? We are winning games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmcmurph Posted April 23, 2012 Author Share Posted April 23, 2012 1) I agree that it wasn't pretty but a win is a win. 2) Would love to see the passing stats on the game from both teams (or perhaps that would just be depressing). Camillo's moment of class stood out in what was otherwise a very sloppy game. 3) Have to disagree with you on Salgado as I thought he produced little. Held up the ball well at times and had a couple of pacey runs down the left but otherwise was a black hole ... ball would go in and be transported via wormhole (a euphemism for poor touch or pass) to the other team. To be fair he wasn't alone in that proclivity as the entire team seemed to want to make the impossible pass rather than the easy pass, but I felt that others offered more in other aspects (Le Toux, Koffie, etc). 4) Regardless nice to get a scrappy win and move back up the table. 1) Yep 3 points is 3 points!! 2) I would really rather not see the passing stats. It would take away from my enjoyment of # 1 3) Up until he got hurt he was doing a respectable winger role, which is totally new for him. Offence and defence he did pretty well. 4) Yep. Got to find different ways to win and up the table we go. PS. They may be hopeless homers but they are OUR hopeless homers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soccerpro Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Who cares? We are winning games. Due to the fact this is a Canadian soccer supporter's forum, I care a little bit, as do probably a few other people here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmcmurph Posted April 23, 2012 Author Share Posted April 23, 2012 Due to the fact this is a Canadian soccer supporter's forum, I care a little bit, as do probably a few other people here. I care as well but a club's first responsibility is to win at the club level. Everything else is just gravy. Over time the 3 MLS teams will sign a lot more Canadian talent and I'm 100% sure of it. Why so confident? Homegrown players do NOT count against the cap and in a salary capped league like MLS that is a huge advantage! Unfortunately in the mean time until they can develop Canadian talent and most of the MLS quality (or above) players spoken for or out of the cap range we wait. Patience my friend, patience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smartlikefox Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Due to the fact this is a Canadian soccer supporter's forum, I care a little bit, as do probably a few other people here. What's better for soccer popularity in the area? Going 0-6 like TFC with Canadian talent or having a successful season with foreign talent? (not saying the Caps are a success at this point but they have a chance). In a perfect world, you have a winner spurred on by Canadians but there certainly isn't a large pool to chose from who could step in and make these teams better (more so who would want to come to the MLS). The Caps winning will get the team in the news and more and more fan support. That's the most important thing right now. The Canadians are coming. The development teams are really hot right now winning game after game at all levels. I'd love to see Teibert get a run but I'm pretty sure Rennie has a better idea on what's going on than the rest of us. Let's not forget that he was away from the team for a lengthy time. And Alderson.. well he's 18.. no rush. He's seeing lots of reserve team action and getting the exposure necessary to develop him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThiKu Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Have to agree - it was nice to see Salgado on the wing. It will give him more opportunity to play and can be moved centrally in the future....but he didn't do particularly well in last nights game beyond a few flashes. He'll improve there given time though. That much is clear. And no, the academy kids shouldn't get rushed unless they are a Morgan-like player. Very fit, loads of upside. Alderson plays a very tough role and unless he dominates training his learning will be in MLS reserves and in training matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macksam Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 What's better for soccer popularity in the area? Going 0-6 like TFC with Canadian talent or having a successful season with foreign talent? (not saying the Caps are a success at this point but they have a chance). Time out, hold on there. I don't like how you are insinuating that TFC are 0-6 because of its Canadian talent, which is far from the truth. Have to agree - it was nice to see Salgado on the wing. It will give him more opportunity to play and can be moved centrally in the future....but he didn't do particularly well in last nights game beyond a few flashes. He'll improve there given time though. That much is clear. Tiebert would've been better though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKottonmouthed1555362307 Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 Time out, hold on there. I don't like how you are insinuating that TFC are 0-6 because of its Canadian talent, which is far from the truth. He is not insinuating it's because of the Canadian talent. But he is saying how is being 0-6 with Canadians better than winning without Canadians. No one is saying its the Canadians fault, but do you really think if TFC season stays like this that many of the roster players will stick around? which means there's a good chance of Canadians being shipped out due to the ;ack of success of the team, whether they directly caused it or not, changes will come. At least with the Caps situation, the few Canadians in the roster are going nowhere for a long time, wheher they succeed at the MLS level instantly or not. Mainly due to the fact the team around the is playing good football and winning which makes jobs for players much more secure. I'd rather the Whitecaps concentrate of winning and creating a solid foundation and structure for Canadian players to thrive and excel in at the proper pace for their development. Especially since most of the Domestic talent the Caps have are years away from contributing to the MLS in any regular capacity. Till then it's about having a winning environment players want to play in, and that players are going to succeed in. How many Canadians have TFC cycled through over 6 years due to lack of success Nana Attakora Adam Braz Jim Brennan Miguel Canizalez Dwayne De Rosario Srdjan Djekanovic Gabe Gala Derek Gaudet Ali Gerba Kevin Harmse Tyler Hemming Diaz Kambere Anrea Lombardo Allando Matheson Joey Melo David Monslave Chris Pozniak Marco Reda Tyler Rosenlund Adrian Serioux Kenny Stamatopoulos Gianluca Zavarise Some of these players deserved to be moved, but some were victims of poor season, and coach turnover. with 6 losses in the rearview mirror who will be this years victims of that same turnover Adrian Cann Oscar Cordon Julian De Guzman Terry Dunfield Doneil Henry Nicholas Lindsay Keith Makubuya Ahstone Morgan Matt Stinson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ag futbol Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 ^ Meh, to the extent that TFC is going to have turnover I suspect some of it would happen regardless of who the coach is. Dunfield may find a home but JDG's days are numbered. As for the prospects, some guys not progressing to the next level is just the name of the game. IF we get 2-3 solid pros out of that group I think we should be happy. Lindsay is most likely going to be released once he's off the IR IMO. Multiple injuries on both knees, his playing days are most likely over, the club just can't release him until he "recovers". Losing doesn't create stability though, that's for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macksam Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 He is not insinuating it's because of the Canadian talent. But he is saying how is being 0-6 with Canadians better than winning without Canadians. No one is saying its the Canadians fault, but do you really think if TFC season stays like this that many of the roster players will stick around? which means there's a good chance of Canadians being shipped out due to the ;ack of success of the team, whether they directly caused it or not, changes will come. At least with the Caps situation, the few Canadians in the roster are going nowhere for a long time, wheher they succeed at the MLS level instantly or not. Mainly due to the fact the team around the is playing good football and winning which makes jobs for players much more secure. I'd rather the Whitecaps concentrate of winning and creating a solid foundation and structure for Canadian players to thrive and excel in at the proper pace for their development. Especially since most of the Domestic talent the Caps have are years away from contributing to the MLS in any regular capacity. Till then it's about having a winning environment players want to play in, and that players are going to succeed in. How many Canadians have TFC cycled through over 6 years due to lack of success Nana Attakora Adam Braz Jim Brennan Miguel Canizalez Dwayne De Rosario Srdjan Djekanovic Gabe Gala Derek Gaudet Ali Gerba Kevin Harmse Tyler Hemming Diaz Kambere Anrea Lombardo Allando Matheson Joey Melo David Monslave Chris Pozniak Marco Reda Tyler Rosenlund Adrian Serioux Kenny Stamatopoulos Gianluca Zavarise Some of these players deserved to be moved, but some were victims of poor season, and coach turnover. with 6 losses in the rearview mirror who will be this years victims of that same turnover Adrian Cann Oscar Cordon Julian De Guzman Terry Dunfield Doneil Henry Nicholas Lindsay Keith Makubuya Ahstone Morgan Matt Stinson I don't have an issue with most of what you say. My main beef is with the Caps not even having Tiebert on the bench. Anyhow, as for TFC, I only see Dunfield and JDG getting shipped out any time soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SthMelbRed Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 I don't have an issue with most of what you say. My main beef is with the Caps not even having Tiebert on the bench. Anyhow, as for TFC, I only see Dunfield and JDG getting shipped out any time soon. Honestly, what do you think is better for Russell Teibert's development, being gifted a spot on the bench on the basis of his being Canadian or earning a spot on the bench, or in the starting 11, by working hard in training and convincing the manager that he's worth putting in that spot ahead of whomever he's competing against? The Whitecaps have put a lot of resources into Russell Teibert's development as a player. I'm quite certain that they, who have the most to gain from his becoming the player that we all hope he will become, will make their decisions with that in mind. Frankly, they should not give a **** what fans on a message board have to say about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soccerpro Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 Honestly, what do you think is better for Russell Teibert's development, being gifted a spot on the bench on the basis of his being Canadian or earning a spot on the bench, or in the starting 11, by working hard in training and convincing the manager that he's worth putting in that spot ahead of whomever he's competing against? The Whitecaps have put a lot of resources into Russell Teibert's development as a player. I'm quite certain that they, who have the most to gain from his becoming the player that we all hope he will become, will make their decisions with that in mind. Frankly, they should not give a **** what fans on a message board have to say about it. I don't think is argument is that Teibert should be gifted a spot on the bench. It's that he seeems like he's good enough to be in the gameday 18 man squad, and it's a view shared by quite a few of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SthMelbRed Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 I don't think is argument is that Teibert should be gifted a spot on the bench. It's that he seeems like he's good enough to be in the gameday 18 man squad, and it's a view shared by quite a few of us. We all have a lot of opinions about different players, including me. I rate Teibert very highly and think he has the potential to be a star for Canada for years to come. However, I'm not employed as a professional evaluator of football talent. Neither is anybody else on this board, that I know of. Martin Rennie is, and he thinks that Teibert isn't ready to take that spot on the bench over other players on the 'Caps MLS roster. If you think that he's come to that conclusion because he hates Canadians, there's nothing that I can do to help you. If you think that any professional club makes decisions on playing matters based on what they think gives them the best chance to win, first and foremost, than you're dreaming. Teibert will play when the professionals in charge decide that he's ready. Until then, we can only hope that he's putting in the necessary work so that he's ready to take his chance when it comes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 I guess this debate boils down to winning vs. development. Is it better for Canadian soccer that our teams win with foreigners or develop Canadians? The answer to that comes down to individual preference or philosophy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youllneverwalkalone Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 I guess this debate boils down to winning vs. development. Is it better for Canadian soccer that our teams win with foreigners or develop Canadians? The answer to that comes down to individual preference or philosophy. Possibly. But I also feel that there's a whole lot of crap being thrown in Caps threads for whatever reason. I can tell you that Teibert should get some minutes at LB because Jordan Harvey is not that good and Alain Rochat is injured. I know this because I follow the club closely. When some moron 5,000 kilometers away posts in three separate Caps threads that Salgado should be dropped (cleary having paid absolutely no attention to his recent performances), it makes it very difficult to "debate" anything. Personally, I'm not sure you can't have your cake and eat it to. In the USL, prior to MLS preparation, we had 5-6 Vancouver boys and 10-12 Canadians on the club at all times. But there was no U14, no U16, no U18, no U23, no reserve side to speak of and the USL competition was not very good. A kid like Teibert, with a Euro passport, would have left Canada under these circumstances and probably would be in the exact same position he is now: making a decent living, getting some decent instruction, playing some reserves minutes in a good second tier or average first tier league. The Vancouver boys never developed into much of anything because they weren't playing at a high enough level and never received top instruction at the youth level. Playing minutes in-and-of-itself does not make better players. The difference now is that Russell Teibert is no longer a fluke. Now we are starting to build them at the U14 level. They then have 3 competitive leagues to develop before the reserves. Admittedly, there's a problem getting reserve/over 18s competitive matches but, when they are ready, they will find time with the MLS side or move to another professional level suited for them as REB, Haber, Gage, Porter, Straith, etc. have all done. The increase in Canada's player pool will be exponential from here. Without a strong MLS club at the top of the structure, this development model falls apart because the quality will not be there at the bottom. It's very difficult to appreciate what the club is accomplishing if you are fixated on the MLS club that is barely a year-old. Both USSDA sides look like they will win their divisions, we should have an extremely competitive PDL side, and the MLS squad is looking better. And we just added Caleb Clarke to the first team, described by Rennie as "powerful, clinical striker." All due respect to the mighty Carlo Corrazin, but I've never heard those adjectives used to describe a Canadian. It's easy for Vs to say, I care about Canadian soccer so I want more Canadians playing for the Caps. But again, if you really care about development, where is the recognition for the clubs contribution to our youth sides? Our Olympic Team was 25% Caps alum. Same with our U17s in Italy. Why can't people see the whole picture for what it is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmcmurph Posted April 27, 2012 Author Share Posted April 27, 2012 I don't have an issue with most of what you say. My main beef is with the Caps not even having Tiebert on the bench. RT's coach has had very positive things to say about him "he doesn't need a quota to make it" and stuff like that. His future is good but why would you want him on the bench for the first team instead of playing 90 for the reserves and getting more development time? The fact is they have a lot of young players who need playing time. Omar got his shot at first team on the wing and I'm sure RT will get his and the coach will cycle through as many players as he needs to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegan Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 RT's coach has had very positive things to say about him "he doesn't need a quota to make it" and stuff like that. His future is good but why would you want him on the bench for the first team instead of playing 90 for the reserves and getting more development time? The fact is they have a lot of young players who need playing time. Omar got his shot at first team on the wing and I'm sure RT will get his and the coach will cycle through as many players as he needs to. Being on the bench for the first team would still allow him to play for the reserves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macksam Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 RT's coach has had very positive things to say about him "he doesn't need a quota to make it" and stuff like that. His future is good but why would you want him on the bench for the first team instead of playing 90 for the reserves and getting more development time? The fact is they have a lot of young players who need playing time. Omar got his shot at first team on the wing and I'm sure RT will get his and the coach will cycle through as many players as he needs to. Rennie saying that is encouraging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKottonmouthed1555362307 Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 I think everyone is anxious to see what RT is really made of. Which is why this topic is becoming more stressed every game he doesn't play. It's a question of When not If he plays though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 The difference now is that Russell Teibert is no longer a fluke. Now we are starting to build them at the U14 level. They then have 3 competitive leagues to develop before the reserves. Admittedly, there's a problem getting reserve/over 18s competitive matches but, when they are ready, they will find time with the MLS side or move to another professional level suited for them as REB, Haber, Gage, Porter, Straith, etc. have all done. The increase in Canada's player pool will be exponential from here. Without a strong MLS club at the top of the structure, this development model falls apart because the quality will not be there at the bottom. It's easy for Vs to say, I care about Canadian soccer so I want more Canadians playing for the Caps. But again, if you really care about development, where is the recognition for the clubs contribution to our youth sides? Our Olympic Team was 25% Caps alum. Same with our U17s in Italy. Why can't people see the whole picture for what it is? I'm at work so i can't write some huge reply, so: - It's one thing to give kids a place to develop as youth and reservists, but to fully develop a player needs an unhindered path to the first team. Playing time alone may not make a player better, but lack of it will certainly stunt them. Kids need to play and make mistakes, not get buried behind some mediocre Americans for the sake of winning a few extra games. - I'd rather those kids still be with the Caps then dispersed all over the place. It turned out ok for some of them like REB, but the odds are against young players being forced to catch on outside of their home country. It's the old development model for Canadian soccer, and that didn't really work out too well for us. - You don't need a strong MLS club at the top to have quality at the bottom. Look at some of the top feeder clubs in leagues the world over, a lot of kids will gravitate to a club if they feel they will eventually get a shot at being a pro as a teen as opposed to waiting into their 20's. - I think everyone is taking the contributions of the Toronto and Vancouver for granted because we should, they've become de facto regional training centres for the best in Ontario and out west. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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