Canadian Nationalization Countdown

[Addona]

i'm so sick of this "the csa treated me bad" excuse. You play for the country not the association. Jdg2 can deny it all he wants but the only reason he is playing for netherlands is because of their status as a football team. I'm sure there are hundreds of hockey players who have been dicked around by hockey canada coaches over the years, how many are playing for other countries? Zero.

"waaaaah, i was treated bad by a youth coach when i was 16 i'm playing for my *blank*. No one has ever gotten dicked around by a coach at 16 there."

1000% agreed.

[Admin]

I'll be honest, if Canada must win by going full mercenary mode with little actual local Canadian talent, and a bunch of guys that gained residency as adults, I won't much care for them as a fan.

There are a number of players that come here, and love it here. Want to live here and stay.

I can't possibly argue with that in any way if they also happen to be good enough to play for the national team.

[Ivanovski94]

It all starts with the canadian culture towards children of immigrants. In school its never about being canadian its always your other backroud. Multiculturaism is great but why cant we all be Canadian first. Canada day and when Hockey canada play is when everyone who isnt canadian become canadian because they win or its convenient. Until we fix this stupid mentality many canadians will not have prde in this country. And my question to them is what did "your" country or the country u claim to be do for u? did u make friends there. no. did u learn ur school there. no. personally I have pride in the country of my parents but i never claim to be from there. culturally i would never fit in. i am Canadian 100000% and proud because without canada i wouldnt have met the ppl i have i wouldnt be the person i am. and thts what most young canadians take for granted

[Keegan]

In the end, your right, the only reason he plays for the Netherlands is because of their status as a footballing nation, no argument there. But where your hockey analogy goes south is that there are thousands of hockey players to replace those hundreds who get dicked around by HC all of which are as good or better. I wish the CSA had this problem but alas we do not (hence this 20 pg thread) and it's not like the CSA were oblivious to JDG2s potential. I doubt he had Oranje dreams when he was 15 playing for the Feyenoord youth but whatever the CSA did, lead him in that direction. I don't condone what JDG2, Hoilett (potentially), Begovic, etc did, but the CSA is as much to blame in a majority of the cases as the players character is.

No doubt there are thousands to replace them but I'm sure there are guys who went on to play for the senior team who were dicked around. They didn't go play for Italy in the World Championships.

[Grizzly]

You guys are right, it was an incorrect assumption taken from a dutch forum board where I was trying to find actual Dutch people discussing JDG2. My apologies. I went back to find out which particular game they were talking about booing him at, but I can't seem to find my way back to the bloody thing, but I took from what they were saying that he did not know their language, although on google translated it was more like "he sucks at dutch" I'm guessing now. Still looking for that forum...but on it dutch fan after dutch fan was annoyed that he had gotten the call up over Dutch players they thought were more deserving.

Hey, that's why I'm a fan, not a reporter.

He did high school in Dutch and is fluent or at least sounds that way to me from what I can understand of Dutch with my German. Dutch pronunciation is very difficult so I am sure he has a strong accent but I doubt he is getting criticized for how he as a foreigner/immigrant speaks Dutch. Maybe the incident you are thinking about was when he played for the national team recently I read he did not sing the anthem while most of the other players did. I think he received some criticism for that although I did not watch the game so I only have this information second hand and do not know how accurate it is. It is possible he does not know the words but also possible he just does not like singing or was too nervous. And if even he does not know the words he would be far from the first footballer not to know the words of their national anthem.

I am not defending him in any way, but we need to be accurate with our information. I think he is a mercenary and I have absolutely no respect for him. I do not believe the stories of how everything is the fault of the CSA either. I have met Jonathon and he is a difficult guy, indeed my impression was he was a very difficult guy. I have met everyone in his family except his mother and he is the only one I would say that about including Julian who everyone thinks I dislike (he is actually very nice and friendly in person but that does not mean I agree with his attitude towards playing and discipline). But as much as I criticize the CSA for unprofessionalism having met Jonathon myself if there was any conflict between them it is hard to believe a lot of it was not Jonathon's fault. And even if the CSA had wined and dined him and served him caviar and shrimp he still would have played for Holland once he had an opportunity. And if he were a similarly talented Dutch hockey player who had played in the OHL he would have chosen Canada over Holland because it was financially more advantageous too. A mercenary is a mercenary.

Edited July 9, 2013 by Grizzly

[Max]

Amen brother.

[Max]

It all starts with the canadian culture towards children of immigrants. In school its never about being canadian its always your other backroud. Multiculturaism is great but why cant we all be Canadian first. Canada day and when Hockey canada play is when everyone who isnt canadian become canadian because they win or its convenient. Until we fix this stupid mentality many canadians will not have prde in this country. And my question to them is what did "your" country or the country u claim to be do for u? did u make friends there. no. did u learn ur school there. no. personally I have pride in the country of my parents but i never claim to be from there. culturally i would never fit in. i am Canadian 100000% and proud because without canada i wouldnt have met the ppl i have i wouldnt be the person i am. and thts what most young canadians take for granted

Amen brother

[john tv]

I hope the Dutch team will spent some time in Canada prior to the WC and get use to the time difference and of course play against Canada.a

This will be magic seeing I hope the two boys and very close brothers from Scarborough play against each other.This will be another StClair moment in Canadian soccer.I am working on it.I consider myself to be a very good friend of both and Jonathan speaks fluent Dutch and is very highly regarded in Holland.His boyhood dream came through and as an immigrant he took on the Dutch nationality like many millions have done in Canada.

[madmonte]

That sounds way more familiar too Grizz. Either way, I certainly agree with your sentiment. Thank you for clearing up my inaccurate info that I apologize for again . It was a minor point in a post really about something else, and ended up sidetracking things a bit, but not excusable.

Either way my sentiments in the original post remain in terms of citizenship. I do understand that FIFA builds the bed for everyone to lie in, but in other threads in the past I've stated I didn't like FIFA's rules as well.

Edited July 9, 2013 by madmonte

[jpg75]

From what i have been told the problem was with the OSA and it was as much Bobby De Guzman's fault (he asked for permission for Jono to play overage, was told no and then did it anyways) as it was theirs. The carryover however is that the guy who suspended a 10 year old Jono (John Knox) the became OSA President and as a result was also a board member of the CSA.

[TheKottonmouthed1555362307]

I'm so sick of this "the CSA treated me bad" excuse. You play for the country not the association. JDG2 can deny it all he wants but the ONLY reason he is playing for Netherlands is because of their status as a football team. I'm sure there are HUNDREDS of hockey players who have been dicked around by Hockey Canada coaches over the years, how many are playing for other countries? ZERO.

"waaaaah, I was treated bad by a youth coach when I was 16 I'm playing for my *blank*. No one has ever gotten dicked around by a coach at 16 there."

Brett Hull.

[Grizzly]

Brett Hull.

Nope. Hull did not play for the US because he felt dicked around by Canadian coaches or Hockey Canada. He played for the US because he was a legitimate dual citizen and at 21 years of age they called him to the World Championship while he was still a university player and he was not on Canada's radar. He felt the tournament helped his career and confidence a lot so he stayed loyal to the US program afterwards. Had Canada called him for this tournament he would have played for us thereafter.

[Gordon]

Nope. Hull did not play for the US because he felt dicked around by Canadian coaches or Hockey Canada. He played for the US because he was a legitimate dual citizen and at 21 years of age they called him to the World Championship while he was still a university player and he was not on Canada's radar. He felt the tournament helped his career and confidence a lot so he stayed loyal to the US program afterwards. Had Canada called him for this tournament he would have played for us thereafter.

That is it in a nutshelll. Dave King did cut Brett Hull from a national team (might have been World Jr. can't recall the specific team) - he was pretty one dimensional, not in the greatest shape and a late bloomer - and Hull explained a few years later - when he was good enough to play for Canada - that he took the US route because he did not think he'd ever be good enough for Canada. This was a guy who had not been selected in the first two entry drafts he was eligible for, and only went late to Calgary in the draft he finally was selected (thinking 5th or 6th round). King was not wrong to cut him at the time, and Hull was really not wrong to choose the US thinking he'd not be good enough. He developed late, and truely was a loss to our program at the end of the day, but everyone made the right/a reasonable decision at the time. It just played out significantly different from the norm with him in term sof progression. I commend him on remaining loyal to the US becasue tehy gave him a chance, because it was hardly the glamour decision to make in the 80s.

Edited July 9, 2013 by Gordon

[Grizzly]

That is it in a nutshelll. Dave King did cut Brett Hull from a national team (might have been World Jr. can't recall the specific team) - he was pretty one dimensional, not in the greatest shape and a late bloomer - and Hull explained a few years later - when he was good enough to play for Canada - that he took the US route because he did not think he'd ever be good enough for Canada. This was a guy who had not been selected in the first two entry drafts he was eligible for, and only went late to Calgary in the draft he finally was selected (thinking 5th or 6th round). King was not wrong to cut him at the time, and Hull was really not wrong to choose the US thinking he'd not be good enough. He developed late, and truely was a loss to our program at the end of the day, but everyone made the right/a reasonable decision at the time. It just played out significantly different from the norm with him in term sof progression. I commend him on remaining loyal to the US becasue tehy gave him a chance, because it was hardly the glamour decision to make in the 80s.

Too be picky I don't think he was actually cut, King just did not select him.

[Gordon]

Too be picky I don't think he was actually cut, King just did not select him.

AS i think about it, I believe you are right about that.

[Oranje]

From what i have been told the problem was with the OSA and it was as much Bobby De Guzman's fault (he asked for permission for Jono to play overage, was told no and then did it anyways) as it was theirs. The carryover however is that the guy who suspended a 10 year old Jono (John Knox) the became OSA President and as a result was also a board member of the CSA.

There lies the animosity before he Feyenoord (and the Netherlands) was even in the picture. So I don't buy he was always going to play for the Netherlands. Semi-controllable factors lead to him becoming a traitor, which need to end.

[Grizzly]

There lies the animosity before he Feyenoord (and the Netherlands) was even in the picture. So I don't buy he was always going to play for the Netherlands. Semi-controllable factors lead to him becoming a traitor, which need to end.

So he betrayed his country because he doesn't like John Knox not because he would make millions more and have a better chance at playing in the World Cup if he played for Holland? A traitor is a traitor regardless of the reason but your explanation is pretty hard to believe.

[dyslexic nam]

One time in grade 3 a fat girl was really mean to me. It hurt my feelings and I talked about it for a long time.

Then I got over it.

Phuck Jono. And that fat girl - phuck her too.

[smartlikefox]

Camilo confirms interest in playing for Canada down the road.

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2013/07/13/vancouver-whitecaps-brazilian-born-camilo-expresses-interest-representing-ca

[prawnsideFC]

Camilo confirms interest in playing for Canada down the road.

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2013/07/13/vancouver-whitecaps-brazilian-born-camilo-expresses-interest-representing-ca

Do people here still think the Whitecaps don't do enough for the CMNT? Sorry but throwing Canadian players into the fire the way TFC does is not the way to go.

[thescottc]

Do people here still think the Whitecaps don't do enough for the CMNT? Sorry but throwing Canadian players into the fire the way TFC does is not the way to go.

Certainly on the development side of things the Whitecaps have been great for Canadian soccer. Still it's sad to see a top-flight Canadian team with only two Canucks on the roster.

[shermanator]

Do people here still think the Whitecaps don't do enough for the CMNT? Sorry but throwing Canadian players into the fire the way TFC does is not the way to go.

I'll admit, I've softened my stance on the Whitecaps after seeing Teibert's play this year. I think their patience with him has allowed him to become part of a great attacking setup along with Miller and Camilo, and since he has gotten some minutes, he's now showing Rennie what he can bring to the team. That being said, since joining MLS, Teibert is the only Canadian they have developed that is showing the ability to help our national team. I don't think that's enough as of now.

[canucklefan]

Do people here still think the Whitecaps don't do enough for the CMNT? Sorry but throwing Canadian players into the fire the way TFC does is not the way to go.

I'm glad Camilo is considering to play for Canada, but the Whitecaps doing enough or not enough for MNT is one thing and Camilio playing for us is another. Certainly the Whitecaps didn't force him to consider Canada an option at international level.

[prawnsideFC]

I'm glad Camilo is considering to play for Canada, but the Whitecaps doing enough or not enough for MNT is one thing and Camilio playing for us is another. Certainly the Whitecaps didn't force him to consider Canada an option at international level.

certainly they must be doing something to have 2 non-Canadian players wanting to play for Canada.

It is sad that that Teibert is the only Canadian on the Whitecaps good enough to play for them, in the offseason Rennie said they tried very hard to try to get a Canadian on the roster but no one was good enough. I remember they had trials for Peters and Cavallini and were being linked with Friend.

[john tv]

Gentleguys I brought it up before that competitive soccer among the Canadian born parents is just about zilch.AA very large size of our population is therefore not involved.Over the years I suffered listening to my Canadian friends who looked at soccer as a violent game.Deaths in the stands and riots etc.The new one is that diving on the field has replaced that resentment.Thanks for all these foreign born parents to keep the game alive,but we need to address these other negative observations and convince everybody about the great and exciting values of our game.I also feel sorry for our MNT players who are required to replace those that were never given the opportunity to play our game because the resentment guided by that media who have been very effective sofar.Any discussion or are we to surrender and keep on scolding our guys who only represent a very small part of Canada.