Canadian Nationalization Countdown

[Grizzly]

Also regarding Bush, I have not heard him ever talk about playing for Canada or getting citizenship or staying here after his career unlike Camara who really seems to love it here (not that Bush doesn't but so far he has not expressed any desire to become Canadian as far as I know). So the point is probably moot but those calling him mediocre have obviously not been watching him lately. He may not be a top 5 MLS keeper but this year he established himself as at least a better than average MLS starting keeper. He is also the best keeper the Impact have had in MLS at least judging the others on the form they had for Montreal. In comparison with Borjan, they are both good shot stoppers and quick reaction keepers. Bush used to have the gaffe problem that Borjan still suffers from but has almost eliminated that with steady playing time so I give him the edge there. Bush has improved his footwork but still makes me nervous with the ball at his feet and his distribution is weak so Borjan has the edge there. I don't think Bush would necessarily take the starting job away from Borjan but he would be strong competition for him.

I hope our young keepers will start to get playing time and remove the need for capping foreign players playing for our club teams. Likewise I hope we develop a couple of strong Canadian right backs. Yet given that much of the rest of the football world both within and outside CONCACAF is capping players who simply play in their clubs I don't see why we should handicap ourselves by not doing it especially for players like Camara who genuinely seem to love Canada. Of course, my preference would be for FIFA to change the rules to something that makes more sense but I don't really see that happening so we need to play with the same rules everyone else does.

Edited November 16, 2015 by Grizzly

[Grizzly]

Again not that Bush is likely to play for us but just read this for those who think he is mediocre and would not help us if he ever did become Canadian:

Also in his first full season as an MLS starter, goalkeeper Evan Bush put up better numbers than the 2015 goalkeeper of the year, Luis Robles of the New York Red Bulls. Bush faced more shots (142 vs. 131 for Robles), made more saves (99-86), conceded fewer goals (39-43) and registered a superior save percentage (69.5-65.5). 

[Blackdude]

To be fair, I don't think that Robles was worthy of being goalkeeper of the year. He won it, but I wonder who voted for him, because there were much better goalkeepers this year.

[A_Gagne]

I know I'll get flamed on this board but as the program wins and finds stability we attract more players.

I went through this thread to see which players were still out there. Most won't sign on but not a bad list of talent.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Cruz_Mascia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ricardo_Ferreira_(Portuguese_footballer)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bryan_Cristante

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caniggia_Elva

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cristián_Gutiérrez

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hassoun_Camara

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gershon_Koffie

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Arfield

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kofi_Opare

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jayson_Leutwiler

 

 

 

Most of these players don't require "nationalization", if we're sticking to the definition of "nationalization", for which this thread was intended. I.e. players playing for Canadian clubs, who could potentially meet FIFA and citizenship requirements, currently or in the future.

 

In fact, other than Camara, these are just a bunch of players with "options", not players that could be nationalized.

Edited December 6, 2015 by A_Gagne

[hamiltonfan]

Any updates on Hassoun Camara?

My two cents - of all possible future nationalized player, he would bring the most immediate value. I understand he plays typically plays on the left, but could he provide cover on the right? Would give Aird sometime to develop into a CMNT starter.

 

[toontownman]

2 hours ago, hamiltonfan said:

Any updates on Hassoun Camara?

My two cents - of all possible future nationalized player, he would bring the most immediate value. I understand he plays typically plays on the left, but could he provide cover on the right? Would give Aird sometime to develop into a CMNT starter.

 

Good point, I had forgotten! I also thought he was primarily a RB tbh. He has certainly played there just fine. I think he was a little behind Koffie, looking at the summer before he could be eligible. That is really not based on anything but some possibly formed fabrication in my head. 

Okay.. I looked it up. He signed for Montreal on Feb 7, 2011, so in theory he should be very close to the amount of days necessary to be a citizen, depends how it is set up now. It has changed so much since I moved over in 2007. 

Would be another solid pick up in our weakest area imo. 

[Ruffian]

2 hours ago, toontownman said:

Good point, I had forgotten! I also thought he was primarily a RB tbh. He has certainly played there just fine. I think he was a little behind Koffie, looking at the summer before he could be eligible. That is really not based on anything but some possibly formed fabrication in my head. 

Okay.. I looked it up. He signed for Montreal on Feb 7, 2011, so in theory he should be very close to the amount of days necessary to be a citizen, depends how it is set up now. It has changed so much since I moved over in 2007. 

Would be another solid pick up in our weakest area imo. 

I assumed he was a right back also.

[Shway]

Truthfully speaking....Camara is an okay RB. A possible small uprgrade over Ledgerwood. But I watched him last year (for the times he actually played) and he struggled against faster wide players, which is basically what CONCACF primarily has. 

But any addition to the program is a good addition!

 

Normalization Ranking (possible eligible year/ age):

1. Gershon Koffie MF  - (2015/ 24)

2. Evan Bush GK - (2016/ 30) 

3. Hassoun Camara RB/CB -  (2016/ 30)

4. Callum Mallace MF -  (2018/ 28)

5. Victor Cabrera RB/CB - ( 2020/ 27)

 

[Grizzly]

Camara is a right back. He can play left but primarily plays RB or right CB. He would be a significant upgrade over Ledgerwood, taller, faster, better ball skills, better passer, as good as Ledgerwood defensively and much better at moving the ball out than Ledgerwood.  

[kmouseyc]

7 minutes ago, Grizzly said:

Camara is a right back. He can play left but primarily plays RB or right CB. He would be a significant upgrade over Ledgerwood, taller, faster, better ball skills, better passer, as good as Ledgerwood defensively and much better at moving the ball out than Ledgerwood.  

Nik has always answered the call don't throw him under the bus already. I don't think Camara has proven what you say day in day out yet. Ledgerwood has the experience to be on the pitch

 

[Shway]

1 hour ago, Grizzly said:

Camara is a right back. He can play left but primarily plays RB or right CB. He would be a significant upgrade over Ledgerwood, taller, faster, better ball skills, better passer, as good as Ledgerwood defensively and much better at moving the ball out than Ledgerwood.  

I think you described Attakora. 

However to say he is significantly better is a significant overstatement. Let's just be real and keep things honest. 

I don't think you watched Camara of 2015 (and if you missed him - don't worry he only played in 9 MLS games last season) because he has been completely different from past seasons and at 30, his career seems 2 years past his prime. 

But again, any addition to the CMNT is an added bonus, my thing is let's just keep these expectations real and calculated. 

Edited February 10, 2016 by Jahinho Guerro

[toontownman]

6 hours ago, Jahinho Guerro said:

Truthfully speaking....Camara is an okay RB. A possible small uprgrade over Ledgerwood. But I watched him last year (for the times he actually played) and he struggled against faster wide players, which is basically what CONCACF primarily has. 

But any addition to the program is a good addition!

 

Normalization Ranking (possible eligible year/ age):

1. Gershon Koffie MF  - (2015/ 24)

2. Evan Bush GK - (2016/ 30) 

3. Hassoun Camara RB/CB -  (2016/ 30)

4. Callum Mallace MF -  (2018/ 28)

5. Victor Cabrera RB/CB - ( 2020/ 27)

 

Collen Warner  can also be on the list if he stays at TFC much longer, I think?

[Grizzly]

4 hours ago, kmouseyc said:

Nik has always answered the call don't throw him under the bus already. I don't think Camara has proven what you say day in day out yet. Ledgerwood has the experience to be on the pitch

 

I am not throwing him under the bus, I am realistically assessing his abilities. He is a player of limited skills who is pretty effective using what he has got and has usually played pretty well for us and at least does not hurt us because he is responsible defensively. A Chris Pozniak type player who can play several roles and is decent but would never be your first choice for the position. At this point in his career he is exactly the level where he has played 3rd Bundesliga and NASL. He could play in MLS as a substitute and probably be decent and not hurt the team when he is on the field just like he does for the national team but he is not an MLS starter on any healthy team. I respect all the guys that always answer the call but if we want to be a Hex quality side we need guys of MLS starter quality who always answer the call at every starting position not guys below that level.

 

 

3 hours ago, Jahinho Guerro said:

I think you described Attakora. 

However to say he is significantly better is a significant overstatement. Let's just be real and keep things honest. 

I don't think you watched Camara of 2015 (and if you missed him - don't worry he only played in 9 MLS games last season) because he has been completely different from past seasons and at 30, his career seems 2 years past his prime. 

But again, any addition to the CMNT is an added bonus, my thing is let's just keep these expectations real and calculated. 

You are talking about being real and honest and then say I am describing Attakora? No I am not describing Attakora at all. Attakora at this point in his career is below Ledgerwood's level and well below that of Camara.   

And you seem to be presenting yourself as an expert here by your comments and your tone yet you do not seem aware of even basic relevant information concerning Camara like why he only played 9 games this year. Camara suffered a serious injury and missed most of the season. While he was injured Oyongo joined the team and played very well and became our starting RB. Camara played a bit at the end of the season after coming back from injury but was a bit rusty and did not get steady playing time with Oyongo in form (and yes I did see him play these games, indeed I saw every minute often live at the stadium). You don't judge a player's level from his first few games following a major injury. Oyongo and Camara are both similar players in level and playing style. I would give Oyongo a slight nod and think he will be our starter but Camara will get decent time this year as we rotate our squad and there is little downgrade between him or Oyongo who this year has been the starting RB for a much better national team than Canada, Cameroon. Now if Camara can not get back to his 2014 form due to the injury or age or lack of playing time or any other factor then he might not be a huge upgrade over Ledgerwood but in his 2014 form he is a significant upgrade over Ledgerwood.

And as I said earlier, we need a player of at least MLS starter level at every position in our starting formation with at least 2 or 3 superior players to be a decent Hex team. With Hutch, Hoilett and probably Arfeld we will have 3 guys that are superior players but we also are starting a few guys in most games that are not MLS quality players. Some of them are good loyal guys like Ledgerwood who perform above expectations when they are on the pitch but nevertheless we need to get these guys out of the starting lineup if the national team is going to improve its level. A 2014 level Camara is putting a MLS starting level RB in place of someone below that level. At CB we also have several players at that level but with DeJong's decline we are starting to hurt on the LB front as well and can only hope one of the younger players like Morgan or Adekugbe or Tissot steps up.

Edited February 10, 2016 by Grizzly

[Shway]

6 hours ago, Grizzly said:

You are talking about being real and honest and then say I am describing Attakora? No I am not describing Attakora at all. Attakora at this point in his career is below Ledgerwood's level and well below that of Camara.   

This was a pun....you totally missed it. But to your new point how can Attakora at 26/27 playing in the NASL be considered well below a 31yo Ledgerwood who now plays in the same league, and well below Camara who looked average in the MLS and USL games he played last year? If were talking marginally....then yes I'll definitely agree with you. But your making it sound like Camara is the RB we all have been longing for....and quiet frankly he's half that. 

Quote

And you seem to be presenting yourself as an expert here by your comments and your tone yet you do not seem aware of even basic relevant information concerning Camara like why he only played 9 games this year. Camara suffered a serious injury and missed most of the season. While he was injured Oyongo joined the team and played very well and became our starting RB. Camara played a bit at the end of the season after coming back from injury but was a bit rusty and did not get steady playing time with Oyongo in form (and yes I did see him play these games, indeed I saw every minute often live at the stadium). You don't judge a player's level from his first few games following a major injury. Oyongo and Camara are both similar players in level and playing style. I would give Oyongo a slight nod and think he will be our starter but Camara will get decent time this year as we rotate our squad and there is little downgrade between him or Oyongo who this year has been the starting RB for a much better national team than Canada, Cameroon. Now if Camara can not get back to his 2014 form due to the injury or age or lack of playing time or any other factor then he might not be a huge upgrade over Ledgerwood but in his 2014 form he is a significant upgrade over Ledgerwood.

Not an expert, nor a pundit, nor a journalist ....just an observant fan - which I understand you are too......and an even greater one of Camara for you to make a ludicrous comparison between Oyongo who is entering his prime and Camara who is exiting. Lets keep it real Grizzly, Oyongo is WAYYYYYY better than Camara not slightly, which is the main reason why your team traded a valuable asset in Felipe to bring in a better wingback then the current crop, or maybe to your point of that he "has been the starting RB for a much better national team than Canada, Cameroon". So I say regardless of injury, Camara's career was already on the trajectory and good luck to him in 2016, but I doubt he'll get playing time over Oyongo, or Cabrera.....two young, massive upside potential players the organization worked hard to keep and get them there.

Quote

And as I said earlier, we need a player of at least MLS starter level at every position in our starting formation with at least 2 or 3 superior players to be a decent Hex team. With Hutch, Hoilett and probably Arfeld we will have 3 guys that are superior players but we also are starting a few guys in most games that are not MLS quality players. Some of them are good loyal guys like Ledgerwood who perform above expectations when they are on the pitch but nevertheless we need to get these guys out of the starting lineup if the national team is going to improve its level. A 2014 level Camara is putting a MLS starting level RB in place of someone below that level. At CB we also have several players at that level but with DeJong's decline we are starting to hurt on the LB front as well and can only hope one of the younger players like Morgan or Adekugbe or Tissot steps up.

100000% agree. 

Here's hoping that Camara gets a few games this year, and I'm also praying that I'll see glimpses of a 2014 Camara too, if not comeeee on Nana  

Edited February 10, 2016 by Jahinho Guerro

[Shway]

8 hours ago, toontownman said:

Collen Warner  can also be on the list if he stays at TFC much longer, I think?

I think your right too. Time spent between MTL and TFC....but based on our current needs and future prospects I would't even put him in the list.

[farrelld]

Camara can play RB, CB or center defensive mid. I don't think I've ever seen him play on the left. I'd be worried about Camara playing against CONCACAF nations because of his style. He does not do well against speedy wingers and goes in hard on tackles and could pick up a red card really easily. I'd rather have Henry play at RB because imo he is probably equivalent to Camara  in most aspect of the game and probably ahead of him defensively.

[Shway]

2 minutes ago, farrelld said:

Camara can play RB, CB or center defensive mid. I don't think I've ever seen him play on the left. I'd be worried about Camara playing against CONCACAF nations because of his style. He does not do well against speedy wingers and goes in hard on tackles and could pick up a red card really easily. I'd rather have Henry play at RB because imo he is probably equivalent to Camara  in most aspect of the game and probably ahead of him defensively.

I agree, ...but I would add in that yes Doniel is better defensively, however Camara is better and more comfortable on bringing the ball down the flank.

 

 

[farrelld]

4 minutes ago, Jahinho Guerro said:

I agree, ...but I would add in that yes Doniel is better defensively, however Camara is better and more comfortable on bringing the ball down the flank.

 

 

That's true and I'd be really happy to add Camara to the national team pool.

Just for games against Mexico and in Honduras I don't really see us having the ball that much let alone being able to bring it down the flank  

[kmouseyc]

6 hours ago, Jahinho Guerro said:

I agree, ...but I would add in that yes Doniel is better defensively, however Camara is better and more comfortable on bringing the ball down the flank.

 

 

I think you missed the point we need to upgrade at RB I agree but lets get someone who truly is an upgrade and moving up in their career. Aird seems to be thet player in my opinion. Henry is shockingly bad at RB.

[toontownman]

Looks like we can cross any slim hope of koffie suiting up for Canada of the list. Traded to new England.

[SthMelbRed]

He's already qualified for citizenship, has he not?

(Not that I think he'll ever be allowed to play for us, regardless.)

Edited February 11, 2016 by SthMelbRed

[baulderdash77]

If he's ever going to be eligible then he already is so getting traded makes no difference I think.

In either event I think it's good for Teibert that Koffie gets traded.  He's going to get more minutes now I would think.

 

[One American]

What is the situation with Manneh? Even if he becomes a US citizen, I'm not convinced he ever gets more than a cup of coffee with the USMNT. Left mid is basically Fab Johnson and Christian Pulisic for the foreseeable future.

[Coramoor]

1 hour ago, One American said:

What is the situation with Manneh? Even if he becomes a US citizen, I'm not convinced he ever gets more than a cup of coffee with the USMNT. Left mid is basically Fab Johnson and Christian Pulisic for the foreseeable future.

Manneh lives in the states and therefore isn't really wracking up any Canadian time and he's made it very clear he wants to play for the US.

[toontownman]

Unfortunately the truth Coramoor. He doesn't have any attachment to Canada and certainly has no claim while he is living in the states.