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Concacaf Champions League's QF - TFC vs. LA Galaxy - March 7th [R]

canucklefan

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jpg75 Rookie

jpg75

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Terry out, Julian in, and we see a little more creativity in the mid. I like the lineup from the midfield up, and I really like Johnson. Just wish we could settle on a good back four and release Frings to go forward, his creativity is lost when he's essentially sweeping.

However, so long as that's what we have, a 3-4-3 continues to intrigue.

Glad you brought up the formation, i thought Winter did a fantastic job with his tactics last night. Starting out with 3-4-3 and then adjusting to a back 4 when we went up 1-0 and then switching temporarily to a back 5 for a few minutes after we went up 2-0 to prevent the immediate response goal. Fantastic situational coaching and flexibility, if only Stephen Hart would take note...

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Gian-Luca Grand Master

Gian-Luca

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Here you can clearly see Saunders' right foot half out of the box after the kick on Koevermans, while he's holding the ball, in the TFC "Game in Six" video. Whole sequence is in there both from the game broadcast camera and then a closeup.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]505[/ATTACH]

Question: if the goaltender's toes are outside the box, is that enough, or does his whole foot have to be out, for him to be considered "out"?

As squizz said, it is supposed whether the keeper hands have touched the ball outside the area, since its the usage of the hands outside the area that is the no-no. That screen cap doesn't really provide a great angle (coming as it does from Sportsnet's feed) to tell either way, it was much easier to see if you were sitting in the stands on that side of the field (as I was) and certainly the linesman would have been able to see it

Though frankly the non-call on the studs up kick to Koevermans thigh was probably the more obvious foul that was missedl, making the whole incident even more galling. There was simply no need for Saunders to that, and its the sort of foul that they don't just award red cards for but also a PK (as that challenge IIRC was actually just inside the box). Perhaps the officials were big fans of the 1982 West Germany-France semi-final style of officiating. But anyway....

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paul-collins Newbie

paul-collins

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Has nothing whatsoever to do with goalkeeper's position. It's about whether the ball is fully outside of the penalty area.

The Laws are unclear:

Outside his own penalty area, the goalkeeper has the same restrictions

on handling the ball as does any other player. Inside his own penalty

area, the goalkeeper cannot be guilty of a handling offence incurring a

direct free kick or any misconduct related to handling the ball.

Squizz, you've been trained - is there a book of interpretation that refs get?

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canucklefan Rookie

canucklefan

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Btw, I love the Koevermans post-game interview on the TFC tv site: "These Concacaf referees are such a joke" - right on Danny, just be thankful you don't have to play internationally here too! :)

http://www.deltaworld.org/sport/Guardiola-If-the-arbitral-establishment-feels-offended-we-apologize/

Guardiola told this recently:

And it reiterated that you don’t see it any benefit to complain about the referees. “I do not know what benefit can find you, not represent every one of us but this club.” We must play better, it is the only way that we have left. “And win with ten, is what we did, what we have always done”, pointed out.

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BearcatSA Grand Master

BearcatSA

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I thought the fan support was awesome, first and foremost. Massive props! As for the match, though I only saw the live TV feed and not my recording as yet, I think the big change in the lineup will be JDG's replacement of Dunfield: just a miles better player in possession which will help things in that area. Having to drop Frings into the middle between Harden and Aceval just highlights the lack of trust he has in that current duo and perhaps the defensive understanding of the back four in general. However, the trade off of the extra support for the back line was the weakening of the central midfield, where the Gals made tactical adjustments (Donovan pushing inside more) to take control of that area of the field. Not sure what to expect in the next leg, even with the return of de Guzman, because it once again becomes a numbers problem in the centre of the park if you essentially seem to have five guys in a back line and a three man forward line.

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ditty Newbie

ditty

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The Laws are unclear:

Squizz, you've been trained - is there a book of interpretation that refs get?

The question comes down to what constitutes a keeper being "outside" his own penalty area. Let's say a keeper is prostrate on the turf, 3 quarters of his body being outside the penalty area but his hands and the ball being inside the area. As a ref, I've made that call before; that is clearly NOT handball. But when a keeper is on his feet, I think most referees would consider it handball if one or more of his feet are outside the box, particularly if the keeper is facing away from his goal. It's pretty hard to keep the ball in the penalty area when you're standing with one or more feet outside the area.

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Keegan Rookie

Keegan

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Thought Silva and Aceval had good debuts. Morgan is great at getting to the byline and crossing the ball, he fits well into Winter's system. Dunfield was... Dunfield, there was a point where we were starting to build some pressure I saw the ball headed his way and I said "backpass", sure enough completely killed our momentum.

Frings was class, I really like Johnson and Plata as well. From the little I saw of Lambe nothing really stood out but I'll reserve judgement. Eckersley is good but I wonder if Winter and staff really wanted him or if it was Mariner/fan pressure type thing that kept him around. He was good last year on a bad team, I'm not sure he's the answer for a winning team playing the system TFC does.

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paul-collins Newbie

paul-collins

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The question comes down to what constitutes a keeper being "outside" his own penalty area. Let's say a keeper is prostrate on the turf, 3 quarters of his body being outside the penalty area but his hands and the ball being inside the area. As a ref, I've made that call before; that is clearly NOT handball. But when a keeper is on his feet, I think most referees would consider it handball if one or more of his feet are outside the box, particularly if the keeper is facing away from his goal. It's pretty hard to keep the ball in the penalty area when you're standing with one or more feet outside the area.

I agree with your reasoning, but does it rely on the interpretation that it's the ball's position that is important when it's in the keeper's hands? Seems to me that this would lead to some wonky decisions with the keeper stepping out but holding the ball over the plane of the box's line... Again, as the rules are written, there is no definition of the terms here.

I'm sure there is some sort of book of interpretation shared with officials that is more detailed than what is shared with the public (as there is in other sports).

I'll have to go back to the video again, but the still I posted implies that the ball itself crossed the plane of the box line in that sequence as well. I still think it was a missed call. (edit: having looked at the video again, it really isn't clear that the ball itself crossed the plane, from the video angles and speed at which it happened; so it really does come down to definitions... The out-of-bounds definitions in gridiron football would have it as "outside", and perhaps that's where my consternation comes from.)

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Gordon Newbie

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I agree with your reasoning, but does it rely on the interpretation that it's the ball's position that is important when it's in the keeper's hands? Seems to me that this would lead to some wonky decisions with the keeper stepping out but holding the ball over the plane of the box's line... Again, as the rules are written, there is no definition of the terms here.

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paul-collins Newbie

paul-collins

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The scenario you describe is quite common...the keeper with both feet outside of the playing area, but the ball held over the line and in play. Similarly, you see players along the touchline, on the outside the touch line, but keeping the ball in play. If you took the positioning of the feet as the final arbitration, then a keeper inside the goal, but punching away a ball, two feet away from crossing the goal line would have to be called a goal.

The definition of what constitutes a goal is more clear on that, though - it's the ball crossing the line.

A goal is scored when the whole of the ball passes over the goal line, between the goalposts and under the crossbar, provided that no infringement of the Laws of the Game has been committed previously by the team scoring the goal.

And as far as players keeping the ball in while they step out, the ball is not being handled then - it is free and being judged as in bounds or out of bounds (again, clearly defined).

The ball is out of play when:

•it has wholly crossed the goal line or touch line whether on the ground or in the air

We are specifically talking about handling. The wording isn't about the ball being in the box. Reread the section I posted earlier -

Outside his own penalty area, the goalkeeper has the same restrictions

on handling the ball as any other player. Inside his own penalty area, the

goalkeeper cannot be guilty of a handling offence incurring a direct free kick

or any misconduct related to handling the ball.

Given the clarity with which the laws describe out-of-bounds and goals, one would have expected the phrase to read "When the ball is outside his own penalty area, ..." and "when the ball is inside his own penalty area, ..." if they meant the rule to apply to the ball's position strictly.

The subject of the sentence is the goalkeeper, not the ball - so you would have to think that the condition of being in or out would apply to him.

/grammar nerd

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munseahawk Newbie

munseahawk

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Was I right in hearing that the next leg will be played in front of 7500 because of an agreement between MLS and Cal State?

You heard correctly. Capacity at the Home Depot Center is capped at 7500 for events during the school semester due to parking and other issues. It's been quoted in some media reports, including this one from ESPN's LA local site.

http://espn.go.com/blog/los-angeles/soccer/post/_/id/14870/galaxy-toronto-leg-a-virtual-sellout

I also found this reference on the LA Galaxy's ticket site

"Capacity for the game will be limited to only 7,500 due to a long standing, mutual agreement with Cal State Dominguez Hills reducing stadium capacity for midweek games during the school year. So get your tickets now before it's too late."

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dbailey62 Newbie

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Thought Silva and Aceval had good debuts. Morgan is great at getting to the byline and crossing the ball, he fits well into Winter's system. Dunfield was... Dunfield, there was a point where we were starting to build some pressure I saw the ball headed his way and I said "backpass", sure enough completely killed our momentum.

Frings was class, I really like Johnson and Plata as well. From the little I saw of Lambe nothing really stood out but I'll reserve judgement. Eckersley is good but I wonder if Winter and staff really wanted him or if it was Mariner/fan pressure type thing that kept him around. He was g

ood last year on a bad team, I'm not sure he's the answer for a winning team playing the system TFC does.

Re. Ecks, I think you nailed it Keegan. He is Mariner's boy. So is Lambe for that matter.

Don't get me wrong. I like Ecks but he has his flaws and I could understand the coaching staff getting a bit stressed out but time will tell.

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dbailey62 Newbie

dbailey62

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You heard correctly. Capacity at the Home Depot Center is capped at 7500 for events during the school semester due to parking and other issues. It's been quoted in some media reports, including this one from ESPN's LA local site.

http://espn.go.com/blog/los-angeles/soccer/post/_/id/14870/galaxy-toronto-leg-a-virtual-sellout

I also found this reference on the LA Galaxy's ticket site

"Capacity for the game will be limited to only 7,500 due to a long standing, mutual agreement with Cal State Dominguez Hills reducing stadium capacity for midweek games during the school year. So get your tickets now before it's too late."

Something else to keep in mind. LA has given each STH a free ticket to the match but they have still not reached the 7500 mark. Personally speaking, I'm stunned they have less than 7500 season tickets sold.

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dbailey62 Newbie

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Are you sure about the STH thing? I thought giveaways were forbidden under CONCACAF rules?

I wouldn't know about the CONCACAF rules but perhaps it was a bonus ticket in the STH package. In any case, this is the word I've been getting on the Gals board at Big Soccer.

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