Jump to content

Revisiting the RB issue


Obinna

Recommended Posts

With Hutchinson back to playing 90 minutes at RB, and supposing this trend continues....

Personally, I do NOT want Ledgewood at the RB spot, he is not strong or fast enough, is only average with his distribution and with the ball at his feet, and gets beat 1 v 1 too often.

Straith is pretty iffy for me at RB, and would be adequate cover if we are really stuck. Let us be serious, he is not a starting RB if we want to advance to the next round, the wide players on Honduras like Chavez, Leon, and Nunez are going to kill him for pace.

Edgar I am moderately comfortable with ONLY because he has played here occasionally in the Championship, I would be satisfied with him as cover here, with Hainualt or Jakovic taking his spot beside McKenna...

Speaking of Hainualt, he appears to be a logical choice at RB, and played the last half of the season there with Houston, but he is not a RB and Hart has never played him there either. So although my mind would be at ease with him as our starting RB, I doubt it will happen.

That brings us to Hutchinson. We all know what he can do in the middle and with JDG2 likely to come in, he could potentially take his spot and allow us to solve the RB issue.

JDG2 is not as good on the defensive side of the ball as Atiba, but if we pair him with his brother, we may not lose anything in that regard, and certainly would not lose anything going forward.

I think it depends on who we play and how we decide to line up. If we are in a 4-3-3, I think JDG-JDG2-Hutch would be for the best, but it we go 4-4-2, the perhaps JDG-JDG2 should be the CMs, and Hutch could move to RB

Thoughts....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Normally I would say that sticking Hutch at RB is the wrong move entirely, but if we had JDG2 attacking, his bro destroying, then having Hutch at RB would be something I'd be willing to consider for sure. I can't believe I am even saying that. Of course, I would feel even better with that notion if Hoillet was playing wide right and Simpson on the left. Hutch and Hoilett would link up nicely, in much the same way that Kluka and Simpson would. Then play Occean up top with Jackson, and we've got not a bad side for once. Edgar and McKenna at CB, maybe Jakovic once he is game fit. As Julian tires, I would move Hutch up, maybe stick Jakovic on the right side, or Edgar.

These are nice troubles to have, if indeed we can get JDG2 sorted out. (And Hoillet!!)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is Hainault's barring injury. He plays RB for Houston so ... yes, he is a RB. If Hainault is injured move Edgar over to RB and put Jakovic in CB. Straith is adequate in certain situations, and Johnson would probably do a job there. Peters apparently is a non-starter....

Hutch can play there, yes, but we can't afford to move him out of CM - at least not unless we add JDG2 and Hoilett to the program.

agreed that Ledg and JBB are neither of them good enough for the RB role....really they aren't good enough for the CMNT period, but we are what we are!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is Hainault's barring injury. He plays RB for Houston so ... yes, he is a RB. If Hainault is injured move Edgar over to RB and put Jakovic in CB. Straith is adequate in certain situations, and Johnson would probably do a job there. Peters apparently is a non-starter....

Has Hainault ever played RB for Canada? For whatever reason Hart doesn't care for him in that spot, or else we would have seen him in there by now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If anyone here thinks we can win without Hutch as CM they didn't watch the Gold Cup.

Whitout him? We couldn't even win WITH him. lol

Seriously though, he looked good against the USA in his only match of the GC. I do not think we would lose too much at CM if we replaced him with JDG and moved him to RB. JDG2 and JDG at CM would be an upgrade to what we have now, but Hutch and JDG2 would be outstanding! Question is though, does Hart keep Hutch in the middle for that little bit of extra quality, when RB is clearly hurting?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Has Hainault ever played RB for Canada? For whatever reason Hart doesn't care for him in that spot, or else we would have seen him in there by now.

Agreed.

He has played RB (and LB) alot for Houston, but he never has for Canada. I find this strange becuase his club formm clearly demonstrates he is very capable.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think it has to be Hainault. We need three quality midfielders and right now we have 2. Johnson is a good player to get a job done, but as an actual creative or tackling midfielder he is not quite good enough if we want to go to Brazil. So if we have JDG1&2 plus Hutch that is a very good central midfield. And for those saying we can play with two midfielders, as I've said countless times. We would get absolutely ripped apart playing 4-4-2. We don't have two midfielders who can dominate the centre of the park enough. And even with Hutch and JDG2 neither of them are good enough in the tackle to protect the back four. With that said there is no way we will see Hutch at RB, no matter what happens with JDG2.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think Hainault has played RB under Hart either. But I wonder if that was due to personnel available at the time etc etc. You have to play the lads as closely to their club position as possible, I think. Especially for Canada when they have to travel so far effectively losing a day of training ahead of games.

Kluk----Edgar-----McK-----Hainault

Jakovic back-up CB, Edgar back-up RB if Hainault hurt/unavailable. I'd even prefer to put Kluk at RB, and De Jong at LB before anyone else. Though considering De Jong plays LB at arguably a better club than Kluk .... maybe DeJ is our starting left back now??? Tough call!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've been an advocate of this move for almost 2 years and about the only one who agreed with me was Big Bird, you build your team from the back up! Other options have emerged however, the most logical one being Hainault but until we see if he is in Hart's plans and get a chance to see him actually play there for us all options should be open!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

He was a CB at Houston. But at some point last year he was put in at RB and remained there throughout the playoffs (where he scored 2 goals I think?).

He played a lot of fullback the year before last as well as even earlier in the season last year. A bit of a mixed bag defensively: at the end of the 2010 season he did a great job policing the Sounders' Zakuani in 1 v 1 situations but at the other end of the spectrum as an LB he got schooled too easily by Soolsma during the TFC home match vs the Dynamo.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No CBs at RB. No CBs at RB. No CBs at RB.

Not Hainault, not nobody. Did you watch him at RB in the MLS final...?? he was the worst defender on his team. Yes, ok, he was covering Robbie Keane... but if you can't cover an aging player for a country that themselves hardly ever qualifies for the WCQ, you probably won't be able to handle the level of play necessary against decent FAST forwards/Wingers

It isn't a defensive ability issue. It's a fitness issue. CB and RB are two different positions. If you want a CLINIC on why CBs should never play at FB on either side, just look at Arsenal's season this year... At times they've had to field 4 CBs across the back and been absolutely decimated nearly every time they have. Poor Djourou has practically played himself out of the team deputizing at RB.

Ledgerwood is a Midfielder... that is why he is a better choice... regardless of 'talent' he is used to running the field for 90minutes... again using Arsenal as an example... Wenger has also employed DM's at various times as makeshift Fullbacks... they have done far better than the CB's in almost ever way...

Despite the fact that they are both 'defensive' positions... the modern fullback, and centreback are very very different ... most CB's just can't cope physically with the running necessary at CB, and if a team plays with Fullbacks who don't get forward... well... you ain't making it to the world cup... I'll tell you that much.

I say all this having watched my beloved Gunners be gutted time and again for making this mistake... in their case however, there was little alternative.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No CBs at RB. No CBs at RB. No CBs at RB.

Not Hainault, not nobody. Did you watch him at RB in the MLS final...?? he was the worst defender on his team. Yes, ok, he was covering Robbie Keane... but if you can't cover an aging player for a country that themselves hardly ever qualifies for the WCQ, you probably won't be able to handle the level of play necessary against decent FAST forwards/Wingers

It isn't a defensive ability issue. It's a fitness issue. CB and RB are two different positions. If you want a CLINIC on why CBs should never play at FB on either side, just look at Arsenal's season this year... At times they've had to field 4 CBs across the back and been absolutely decimated nearly every time they have. Poor Djourou has practically played himself out of the team deputizing at RB.

Ledgerwood is a Midfielder... that is why he is a better choice... regardless of 'talent' he is used to running the field for 90minutes... again using Arsenal as an example... Wenger has also employed DM's at various times as makeshift Fullbacks... they have done far better than the CB's in almost ever way...

Despite the fact that they are both 'defensive' positions... the modern fullback, and centreback are very very different ... most CB's just can't cope physically with the running necessary at CB, and if a team plays with Fullbacks who don't get forward... well... you ain't making it to the world cup... I'll tell you that much.

I say all this having watched my beloved Gunners be gutted time and again for making this mistake... in their case however, there was little alternative.

Did YOU watch the MLS final?? He was easily Houston's best defender. Just because your Arsenal doesn't have a CB that can play RB in the EPL doesn't mean we don't have a CB that can play RB in CONCACAF. Oh and if a player plays RB for a whole season as Hainault did, he IS a RB/CB!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Did YOU watch the MLS final?? He was easily Houston's best defender

I was just going to post the same thing, he didn't have a great match but Houston overall was a much weaker team yet they hung with LA for a good part of the match, he also shouldn't be judged by one match as he was instrumental in getting the Dynamo to the final! It really is too bad that Hart and us fans haven't had a chance to evaluate Hainault at RB for Canada, this really should have been sorted by now! I agree with Wingback that generally the tall lumbering CB's don't make good fullbacks but there are exceptions to the rule and it shouldn't be based on all of the failures the Gunners have had with this!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Did YOU watch the MLS final?? He was easily Houston's best defender. Just because your Arsenal doesn't have a CB that can play RB in the EPL doesn't mean we don't have a CB that can play RB in CONCACAF. Oh and if a player plays RB for a whole season as Hainault did, he IS a RB/CB!

Didn't he mostly play RB earlier in his career??... so did Puyol... Arsenal was just an EXTREME EXAMPLE OF A COMMON TREND... There are numerous examples of the opposite as well... I think one of City's defenders alternates between CB and FB...

Whether or not he was Houston's best D, I suppose might have to remain a matter of opinion... but I maintain, at the very least... he did not have enough going forward at that level... and I don't think. And regarding Edgar... people might recall... if I'm not mistaken.. he was playing RB in the game that Norwich City creamed Burnley... again... correct me if I'm wrong...

And by the way... Arsenal tends to have some of the best BALL PLAYING CB's in the EPL... their D can be suspect... but their ball playing is usually pretty good... again.. this is why it is a fitness issue... not many CB's can run box to box a la.... Cole, Sagna, Marcello, Evra, Baines, Rafael/Fabio, ... if somebody can't do that at the highest level... they should not be playing FB for Canada... because it will injur our ability to get forward.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was just going to post the same thing, he didn't have a great match but Houston overall was a much weaker team yet they hung with LA for a good part of the match, he also shouldn't be judged by one match as he was instrumental in getting the Dynamo to the final! It really is too bad that Hart and us fans haven't had a chance to evaluate Hainault at RB for Canada, this really should have been sorted by now! I agree with Wingback that generally the tall lumbering CB's don't make good fullbacks but there are exceptions to the rule and it shouldn't be based on all of the failures the Gunners have had with this!

Again... someone seems to be selectively responding to my initial post...

The point about the final was only one of many.... Arsenal is just one example, that I happen to be most familiar with.. there are many more...

The main issue isn't the defensive aspect... it's the OFFENSIVE ASPECT... most CB's deputizing at fullback are unable to provide enough going forward... and it makes it harder for a team to keep the ball.. because in the modern game... and the system canada plays (4-3-3), you need your fullbacks getting forward.... height aside.. CB's need more strength... muscle weighs more... you weigh more... Puyol is half an inch taller than ME... but he's a good CB because he's STRONG... this is also why he isn't bombing down the wing...

the fullback in the modern game is the fittest person on the team... has to be... and unless you're going to tell me that Edgar, Hainult or Straith or some other CB on our team is going to be sprinting from final third to final third for 90 minutes... they have not business in that position except in specific circumstances... say if we're playing a deliberately defensive game.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Again... someone seems to be selectively responding to my initial post...

The point about the final was only one of many.... Arsenal is just one example, that I happen to be most familiar with.. there are many more...

The main issue isn't the defensive aspect... it's the OFFENSIVE ASPECT... most CB's deputizing at fullback are unable to provide enough going forward... and it makes it harder for a team to keep the ball.. because in the modern game... and the system canada plays (4-3-3), you need your fullbacks getting forward.... height aside.. CB's need more strength... muscle weighs more... you weigh more... Puyol is half an inch taller than ME... but he's a good CB because he's STRONG... this is also why he isn't bombing down the wing...

the fullback in the modern game is the fittest person on the team... has to be... and unless you're going to tell me that Edgar, Hainult or Straith or some other CB on our team is going to be sprinting from final third to final third for 90 minutes... they have not business in that position except in specific circumstances... say if we're playing a deliberately defensive game.

I was just responding to the examples YOU gave! I honestly have not seen Hainault play very often and can only base my opinions on match reports and so on! He did have a very good run playing RB with Houston and scored some crucial goals in the play offs, whether these were from set pieces or overlapping runs I don't know but he obviously got forward! He scored off a corner for Canada vs BELARUS I believe, I think he was playing CB in that match! I have stated previously that Hutch has to be considered for this position for exactly the attributes you list for a FB but if there is another solid option I'm fine leaving him in the midfield! This of course depends on Junior and JDG2 joining us!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was just responding to the examples YOU gave! I honestly have not seen Hainault play very often and can only base my opinions on match reports and so on! He did have a very good run playing RB with Houston and scored some crucial goals in the play offs, whether these were from set pieces or overlapping runs I don't know but he obviously got forward! He scored off a corner for Canada vs Ukraine I believe, I think he was playing CB in that match! I have stated previously that Hutch has to be considered for this position for exactly the attributes you list for a CB but if there is another solid option I'm fine leaving him in the midfield! This of course depends on Junior and JDG2 joining us!

It was actually Belarus BTW

I am pretty torn on this issue...

I like the comment regarding the need for 3 quality central midfielders, which means we need Hutch, JDG2, and JDG in there. Johnson and Bernier are adequate cover, but are not as good in possession.

If we play 4-3-3 though we need to attack through our fullbacks. We are fine on the left but I am not sold on Hainault joining the attack. In the end though I have a feeling that Hart will keep Hutch in the midfield, and give the right back spot to Ledgerwood.

....If only Jamie Peters was in form.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was just responding to the examples YOU gave! I honestly have not seen Hainault play very often and can only base my opinions on match reports and so on! He did have a very good run playing RB with Houston and scored some crucial goals in the play offs, whether these were from set pieces or overlapping runs I don't know but he obviously got forward! He scored off a corner for Canada vs Ukraine I believe, I think he was playing CB in that match! I have stated previously that Hutch has to be considered for this position for exactly the attributes you list for a CB but if there is another solid option I'm fine leaving him in the midfield! This of course depends on Junior and JDG2 joining us!

It was Belarus, but the point is valid. Hainault can handle the RB position just fine.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...