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Duane Rollins1555362254

JDG2 back in picture

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Furthermore. That quote from the CSA also makes sence because without a passport it makes it a real problem to travel with the team. Travel with the team is important. But it certainly does not invalidate what i said but confirms it. They want players to have a passport to avoid problems. So, to reiterate my undertanding, the issue is an internal canadian one and a matter of policy and rules. Nothing to do with fifa or the eligibility rules. From what i read in those rules, he could proably suit up to play for canada tmrw even in an official match. But traveling with the team from country to country even within North america? That looks to be the issue.

If he simply does not have a passport why would the CSA be involved in this at all? He would merely have to go to a Canadian consulate in Spain and submit an application just like we all do. Surely he is capable of applying for a passport on his own. He would have needed a Canadian passport to travel to, live and work in Holland up until he received his Dutch citizenship so he obviously has had one before. Unless there is some further complication that we do not know about, I can't see the CSA getting involved in this unless he renounced his citizenship.

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If the CSA are involved, it leads me to believe that he is trying to regain his citizenship, not just his passport, and the CSA is acting as a sponsor to fast-track the process. I say this without knowing the detailed steps in how to reacquire citizenship or his specific situation but it just makes sense to me this way. I wouldn't be too worried about the outcome if his desire to play for us is sincere. Governments always find a way to fast-track athletes in these kind of situations.

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Obviously this isn't going to happen. Obviously. Even if it did it wouldn't make that big of a difference; one player is not a team.

oh my god oh my god oh my god oh my god (breathes into paper bag) oh my god oh my god oh my god

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If this does happen to me this is about more than just one player. A high profile player electing to play for Canada (although this isn't exactly the ideal scenario after he spurned us to chase other options) can hopefully stem some of the tide of our defectors and sway them to suit up for the red and white. To me, if JDG2 finds a way into the fold, it could potentially help in getting some serious momentum going for a guy like Hoilett too. Which, in turn, would give something for Aleman, and any other future prospects who have options to consider... This could be a lot bigger than just JDG2 coming back.

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Obviously this isn't going to happen. Obviously. Even if it did it wouldn't make that big of a difference; one player is not a team.

oh my god oh my god oh my god oh my god (breathes into paper bag) oh my god oh my god oh my god

Brilliant.

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If the CSA are involved, it leads me to believe that he is trying to regain his citizenship, not just his passport, and the CSA is acting as a sponsor to fast-track the process. I say this without knowing the detailed steps in how to reacquire citizenship or his specific situation but it just makes sense to me this way. I wouldn't be too worried about the outcome if his desire to play for us is sincere. Governments always find a way to fast-track athletes in these kind of situations.

Not to rain on the parade but what happened with Matt Bonner? I don't think he got his citizenship.

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Wow, I had a feeling that Hart was working on this one--I assume JDG2 was indeed one of the two players he was referring to--and if Junior comes to the team WITH Jono, then our midfield gets a huge upgrade. I cannot wait to see what Hutch can do with all this quality around him. And with Edgar rising, things do not look too awful, do they?

As for citizenship and passports, I am sure the Dutch will do all they can to make things work for Jono and the CSA. Hell, we liberated them from the freaking Nazis: The least they can do is lie just a little bit. I mean, nobody has to die along the way.

Wow, this would be cool!

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I have a sneaking suspicion that Jeff Swartz is behind all of this.

I also feel a bit like I've been called by an old girlfriend (you know, the one who was REALLY good in bed - internationally renowned, even) at 9 PM to say she was feeling bored and starting to consider, maybe, quite potentially leaving her a-hole boyfriend for one last chance at "old times", and just wanted me to be the first to know, because, well, you know...

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No. Nationality <> passport. Most of us never got a passport until we needed it to travel abroad. There a thousands or maybe millions of canadians who never got a passport because they dont need it because they dont go abroad. That number was probably higher prior to the new rules requiring a passport to travel to the US or through out north america. Are you suggestng that i am not citizen until i get a passport? What about people with criminal records, you might have problems getting a passport with a criminal record but it doesnt mean you lose your nationality or cutizenship. Those rules that i read confirm the Bircham situation and how he was alowed to play for Canada meaning that Jono's hurdle is not FiFA but rather the travel conveniences. May if he did, as grizzly suggests, renouce his canadian citizenship, he cant get it back so he cant get a passport and cant travel with the team. That could be a big hurdle. But its not and nothing to do with fifa eleigibility. From what i can read on you piece.

Since I have provided evidence in the past I will just make my final retort simple

1) In most cases Dutch nationality laws do not allow dual citizenship. (De Jong is an exception but I don’t want to muddy this up this discussion any further by explaining why). It’s a strong possibility De Guzman renounced his Canadian citizenship to gain Dutch citizenship.

2) If you renounce your Canadian citizenship you no longer have that nationality and FIFA rules state you must possess that nationality to play for that nation (Article 15). The rules referring to which nations you can play for (Article 16) are in effect IF you have additional citizenships.

3) De Guzman in an interview last year stated he isn’t eligible to play for Canada because he ‘gave up his passport’. Others have pointed out that passport is often used as a synonym for citizenship in Europe.

4) The evidence of De Guzman’s own statements and Dutch nationality laws point to the strong possibility he renounced his citizenship and if he did he cannot represent Canada and FIFA rules are clear on that.

Oh and for further measure after looking around the internet I found out Marc Bircham is indeed a Canadian citizen with a Canadian passport. He stated it on his Twitter when asked.

Marc Bircham@TobiasVaughn of course I needed a passport !! Canada don't just let anyone play for them u know !! Haha.. If we did we would of got to a WC

3 Nov

TobiasVaughn@marcbircham Thanks for representing Canada (& singing the anthem!). Did you need to become a citizen or get a Canadian passport to do so.

2 Nov

Retweeted by marcbircham

You can’t obtain a Canadian passport unless you are a Canadian citizen.

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I cannot add anything more to the comments regarding his eligibility, some very interesting points made by you guys.

From some thoughts from a soccer fan perspective:

assuming we get Hoillett and De Guzman (still a stretch), where should they play?

Well, JDG2 is pretty straight forward, he has to play in the centre of the park.

Hoillett can play as a secondary striker or as a left sided attacker. I notice alot of suggestions to play him on the right side to accomidate Simpson but if you watch him he is ALWAYS most effective on the left wing, particularly when he cuts in on his right foot.

IMO we have to maximize Hoillett, but then what becomes of Simpson?

Also as mentioned, we now also have the possiblity of playing Hutch at RB if we need to. It is nice to have that flexibility but at the end of the day I still want Hutchinson attacking from the midfield with JDG2 (and JDG holding), or Hutch and JDG holding with JDG2 as the attacker.

DeRosario becomes interesting now as well. MVP and golden boot winner of MLS, tied for the lead in Canada scoring history, too good to leave on the bench.

Perhaps we go:

Hainualt----Mckenna-----Edgar/Jakovic----Klukowski/De Jong

De Rosario-----Hutchinson--------JDG2--------Simpson

-------------------------Hoillett------------------------------

----------------------Jackson------------------------------------

Hate to drop JDG to the bench, but this would be assuming everyone is healthy, which is rarely the case for any team.

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So he's still eligible for Jamaica and Phillipines but not the country he was born in... great FIFA rules.

Before we rush to rash judgements based off of information collected off the conjecture of a bunch of people who are admittedly not FIFA officials or immigration lawyers, we should see what the CSA, FIFA, and Jono have to say about the matter.

All I've seen in this thread is a bunch of what if scenarios, with nobody being able to provide a definitive answer on Jono's citizenship status. There's plenty of conjecture on the issue about people thinking he gave it up, and whether that would remove his eligibility.

Everyone should just cool it until we have the facts. This thread is full of Chicken Littles the same day that we get some positive news.

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Since I have provided evidence in the past I will just make my final retort simple

1) In most cases Dutch nationality laws do not allow dual citizenship. (De Jong is an exception but I don’t want to muddy this up this discussion any further by explaining why). It’s a strong possibility De Guzman renounced his Canadian citizenship to gain Dutch citizenship.

2) If you renounce your Canadian citizenship you no longer have that nationality and FIFA rules state you must possess that nationality to play for that nation (Article 15). The rules referring to which nations you can play for (Article 16) are in effect IF you have additional citizenships.

3) De Guzman in an interview last year stated he isn’t eligible to play for Canada because he ‘gave up his passport’. Others have pointed out that passport is often used as a synonym for citizenship in Europe.

4) The evidence of De Guzman’s own statements and Dutch nationality laws point to the strong possibility he renounced his citizenship and if he did he cannot represent Canada and FIFA rules are clear on that.

Oh and for further measure after looking around the internet I found out Marc Bircham is indeed a Canadian citizen with a Canadian passport. He stated it on his Twitter when asked.

You can’t obtain a Canadian passport unless you are a Canadian citizen.

Renouncing citizenship is not a formal process the government recognizes. Ask Americans who are eligible (required) for military service.

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Renouncing citizenship is not a formal process the government recognizes. Ask Americans who are eligible (required) for military service.

Not true at all. Depends on the government. For Example: The People's Republic of China forces citizens to renounce citizenship should they take it up in another country.

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Well ****, if all the kid needs is to get his citizenship back, let's get this guy to the next god damn swearing in ceremony like there's a bag of CSA money left in Jason Kenney's mailbox!

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My bad - maybe you can but you'd have to apply to do it...

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/applications/renounce.asp

Still something government must recognize.

Yes but if you apply and it is approved the government will recognize it. And if Holland required him to do this, then he needed to show them a certificate from the Canadian government showing that he had renounced his citizenship in the eyes of the Canadian government.

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So he's still eligible for Jamaica and Phillipines but not the country he was born in... great FIFA rules.

FIFA rules have nothing to do with it Keegan. The FIFA rules of regarding the different nations you can play for are only relevant if you hold multiple citizenships.

Example, let’s pretend I was born in Germany or some other godforsaken place ;). Germany has very strict laws regarding citizenship and being born there doesn’t mean I obtain German citizenship. If I was born in Germany but processed only my Canadian citizenship I can only play for Canada despite being born in Germany.

However, if I have both Canadian and German citizenship then the rules of who I can play for apply and I would qualify because I have citizenship and I was born there.

I am not sure of the nationality laws of Jamaica or the Philippines, but De Guzman cannot play for these countries unless he obtains their citizenship. Jamaica does grant citizenship based on descent but I don’t know about the Philippines

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So he's still eligible for Jamaica and Phillipines but not the country he was born in... great FIFA rules.

This has absolutely nothing to do with FIFA rules nor can they be blamed in any way for this. As we all know if anything FIFA nationality rules are far too liberal not too restrictive.

Also he would only be eligible to play for Jamaica or Phillipines if he actually applied and received their citizenship. Probably he would qualify for their citizenship based on parentage but I would be surprised if a Canadian guy living in Holland had ever bothered to do this. If he decided he wanted to do it now it would probably take as long as it would to get Canadian citizenship although they may not require the same residency requirements.

If he renounced his citizenship there are only two places to put the blame, Holland for having restrictive citizenship laws and JDG2 himself for renouncing his Canadian citizenship. These are the only reasons he does not qualify for the very liberal nationality laws of both FIFA and Canada.

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Before we rush to rash judgements based off of information collected off the conjecture of a bunch of people who are admittedly not FIFA officials or immigration lawyers, we should see what the CSA, FIFA, and Jono have to say about the matter.

All I've seen in this thread is a bunch of what if scenarios, with nobody being able to provide a definitive answer on Jono's citizenship status. There's plenty of conjecture on the issue about people thinking he gave it up, and whether that would remove his eligibility.

Everyone should just cool it until we have the facts. This thread is full of Chicken Littles the same day that we get some positive news.

Agree totally with this, lets be optimistic but wait to see what comes about.

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He didn't renounce his citizenship, did he? If not it should be a mere formality of applying for a passport. As a native born Canadian, it shouldbe easy. I don't think he'd go public if he wasn't serious. Even if the Dutch give him a preemptive sniff, he must realize that he has a better chance of playing in the World Cup with Canada.

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Take this as you will. Not sure how reliable it is, but...

From Wikipedia: "Changes to FIFA regulations regarding switching nations[31] now mean that De Guzman is again eligible for selection by Canada, as well as the countries of his parents, Jamaica and the Philippines, having yet to make an appearance for the senior Netherlands squad."

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Take this as you will. Not sure how reliable it is, but...

From Wikipedia: "Changes to FIFA regulations regarding switching nations[31] now mean that De Guzman is again eligible for selection by Canada, as well as the countries of his parents, Jamaica and the Philippines, having yet to make an appearance for the senior Netherlands squad."

Yes that is true but it leaves out the important detail that he needs to have citizenship to play for any of those countries. He could play for China if they gave him citizenship and he fulfilled FIFA's residency requirements.

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You don't need a passport to play for a country. It's about nationality not citizenship. He's born here, he's elligible. Article 17. He still needs to make the proper application to FIFA to switch, and that's something that the CSA would have to help with.

And regarding his elligibility to Phillipines and Jamaica he is technically both a Jamaican and Phillipino National due to his parents nationality and is also elligible for them by Article 17.

Just a footnote but our players playing abroad their children born overseas are also Canadian citizens automatically which lasts for the 1st generation only. Works the same with many countries.

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Not sure if this was posted or how relevant this is to the JDG2 issue but I found this post from 2009 where it states that immigration can be fast tracked if the applicant is an athlete as well as other options. Don't know if this loopholes is still available or if this process is enough to get his passport or citizenship back.

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