baulderdash77 Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 I don't think that we're all equipped with enough details. I think if JDG2 can play for Canada and not lose his EU status then he'll do it, otherwise I don't see him doing it in all honesty unless he gets a DP contract with MLS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertuzzi44 Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 should we be worried about this tweet? Jonathan De Guzman I was Dutch before I became Dutch That was on November 6th. Wouldn't be worried at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Full-Time Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Shameful plug... but JDG2 joins us on Full-Time: Vancouver's Soccer Show on TEAM 1040 Radio in Vancouver tonight to talk about his brothers comments. We kick off at 10:30pm PT on TEAM 1040, online at http://www.teamradio.ca And for details on the podcast after the show is over, check out http://www.teamradio.ca/multimedia/podcasts/ Also scheduled is Stephen Hart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 A friend of mine just posted this article on Facebook and thought a lot of you might be interested. It's about Dutch citizenship and how it's becoming more and more restrictive. It talks a lot about dual-citizenship, renouncing one's other one in order to hold onto your Dutch citizenship and the complications that sometimes arise. It seems that Holland is going against the trend set by most other countries of making dual-citizenship easier to obtain, which doesn't bode well for us. However, as has been mentioned numerous times here, none of us know the specifics of the De Guzman case or what options exist for him. http://www.opendemocracy.net/pooyan-tamimi-arab-lammert-de-jong/dutch-ltd-dutch-nationality-is-becoming-exclusive I wouldn't say they are bucking the trend of making dual citizenship easier to obtain. I would say they are actually in line with the current trend in Europe of making more restrictive rules towards acquiring citizenship and dual citizenship. Many European countries have traditionally had very restrictive citizenship and immigration rules but in recent decades were starting to liberalize the rules particularly due to the disadvantages to the state of having large numbers of children of immigrants born in the country but not possessing the citizenship of the country and in fact being foreign nationals of countries they never lived in. However, I would say the liberalization trend stopped around the year 2000. Since then there has been a significant rise in anti-immigrant and anti-Muslim sentiment and the rise of extreme right-wing nationalist parties who are getting significant voting percentages in countries like Holland, Austria and Switzerland, often becoming the largest party in parliament. It is particularly sad to see Holland move from being one of the world's most tolerant and liberal countries to being a conservative, bigoted country. They are not setting any trend in doing this but it is a bit surprising that they have also moved in this direction given how liberal they were previously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob.notenboom Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 This is pure speculation, but much of the discussion about Dutch laws in this thread has focused on immigration laws. However, JDG2 is a Dutch citizen and it may not be immigration laws but citizenship laws that apply to him. Does the tightening of immigration laws mean that there is also a tightening of laws for Dutch citizens to acquire a foreign dual citizenship? Sure these are related, but they also might be quite different. If anyone has some knowledge to either prop up or shoot down this point, please do so. I know a number of Dutch citizens who have moved to Canada and become dual citizens (including many members of my family) and none of them ever mentioned it being an issue (mind you I never really asked either). Perhaps the upcoming radio show will shed some light on the issue. On the other hand, maybe we will still be discussing and wondering in March (2014). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 This is pure speculation, but much of the discussion about Dutch laws in this thread has focused on immigration laws. However, JDG2 is a Dutch citizen and it may not be immigration laws but citizenship laws that apply to him. Does the tightening of immigration laws mean that there is also a tightening of laws for Dutch citizens to acquire a foreign dual citizenship? Sure these are related, but they also might be quite different. If anyone has some knowledge to either prop up or shoot down this point, please do so. I know a number of Dutch citizens who have moved to Canada and become dual citizens (including many members of my family) and none of them ever mentioned it being an issue (mind you I never really asked either). Perhaps the upcoming radio show will shed some light on the issue. On the other hand, maybe we will still be discussing and wondering in March (2014). The case of your relatives is likely that Holland does not know they are Canadian citizens and Canada does not care if they have dual citizenship. Canada does not tell Holland or any other country that the person has become a Canadian citizen so as long as the person himself does not say anything to Holland they are fine. Of course, in the case of a prominent football player playing internationally it would be almost impossible to hide Canadian citizenship if he is not entitled to dual citizenship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob.notenboom Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 The case of your relatives is likely that Holland does not know they are Canadian citizens and Canada does not care if they have dual citizenship. Canada does not tell Holland or any other country that the person has become a Canadian citizen so as long as the person himself does not say anything to Holland they are fine. Of course, in the case of a prominent football player playing internationally it would be almost impossible to hide Canadian citizenship if he is not entitled to dual citizenship. Yes, this occurred to me, although my grandpa was a very famous butter maker and was probably on their radar (chuckle). Still, I wonder how different the laws are regarding immigration and citizens applying for citizenship in other countries ... or perhaps there are different rules for citizens born in Holland and those who gain citizenship. That would be insidious now wouldn't it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamptern Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 So, it's clear. JDG2's nationality is Dutch. AND he does not want to give up that Dutch passport. A big IF for coming months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck in Boston Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Yes. thats the part i dont get. As far as i know, it is only in the US whereby to get citizenship requires you to to renounce your previous citizenship. I could get a EU passport no problem at all and a family member has two citizenships (EU and canada) and hence qualifies to obtain two passports. Not sure if that is true. I know many naturalized US citizens who continue to carry a passport of their country of birth and continue to renew said passports. I think that the US doesnt acknowledge dual citizenship, yet ask for no proof that you renounce your previous citizenship. I will find out in August of 2012 when I qualify for US citizenship. Also, I know many people born in the US of immigrant parents and they hold US and EU passports, or in the case of my children US and Canadian. I know that is a different scenario. However, an odd law states that someone born in the US cannot enter the US on a foriegn passport unless they have legally renounced US citizenship, which is very easy to get around. Just keep both passports up to date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeelaw Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 I hope this sorts itself out soon. It would be such a waste of the CSA's limited resources and time to go through all this while qualifying... It's like he'd nearly comeback to **** us over harder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegan Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 I hope this sorts itself out soon. It would be such a waste of the CSA's limited resources and time to go through all this while qualifying... It's like he'd nearly comeback to **** us over harder. That's what I'm thinking... we can't let this take away from our focus, we as supporters need to have the mindset that we are going to Brazil without them and push that onto our current players. All this talk about "We might have a shot if..." needs to stop, its disrespectful to the players who are playing for us and if it doesn't work out we're going to have a bad vibe before the next round even starts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Mac7 Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 I think we should just continue to push the guys who have played hard for us to date. Obviously, if we get one or both of the aforementioned players, then that is a bonus; however, if we don't, my opinion of the current team does not change. Though, I must admit, I would welcome them if they decided to play for Canada! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terry7m Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Each time I see that interview on the Footy Show I get pretty excited. Anytime, you can add talent to the squad, it's a bonus, especially as we advance through qualifying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tarnado1555362291 Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Jono in Champions League against Napoli http://www.ilemi.me/36556/1/Watch-Villarreal-CF-vs-Napoli/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gstone2 Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Does anybody else find it funny that on the side of this thread, there is an add for a Canadian Immigration experts company... Call 'em up! Just joking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alberta white Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Isn't everyone here ignoring the issue of JDG2's job prospects if he gives up his Dutch passport to regain his Canadian one? Each Spanish team can only have what 3-4 foreigners? What would his status be with the yellow submarine if that happens? Soccerpro has a point here. As a national of an European Union country, He has a right to 'work' in any Signatory state. Therefore as a "Dutch" national he can play in Holland, Spain England Germany etc. The Foreigners Rule effectivley applies to anyone coming from outside of the European Union. This rule is Leading to a lot of the closed Boarder policies been espoused by many of the "nationalist Parties" in Europe. With the current economic climet, its a little reminiscent of the "Posters of the 1930's Midwest, which told, "Jorneymen Workers-Move on". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snake Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 found this on another board,ive cut and pasted here looks good de Guzman was born in Canada and acquired Dutch citizenship in 2008. At that time, he was required to renounce his Canadian citizenship. The Wiki page on Dutch nationality law (I know, it's just wiki - not the last word) says this: Loss of Dutch Citizenship Dutch subjects may lose their citizenship through long residence outside the Netherlands while having more than one nationality, or acquisition of a foreign nationality. In addition, in some cases it is possible to be deprived of Dutch citizenship. By acquisition of another citizenship A person who voluntarily acquired another citizenship before 1 April 2003 automatically lost Dutch citizenship. From 1 April 2003, loss of Dutch citizenship upon naturalisation in another country is still automatic unless at least one of the following exemptions applies: the person is born in the country of the other nationality and has a principal residence there at the time of acquisition of that nationality. if before turning 18, the person has had a principal residence in the country of the other nationality for an uninterrupted period of five years; if you are married to a person who possesses the nationality you wish to acquire (a spouse who is deceased does not count). It would seem from reading this, if de Guzman has a principal residence in Canada, since he was born in Canada, he MAY be able to re-aquire Canadian citizenship without losing his Dutch citizenship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 ^ He may not have primary residence in Canada though. Does anyone know if he even owns a house in Canada? If he were to go out and buy a house here in Canada (in case he doesn't already have one) then what would the tax consequences be? Are Canadian tax rates higher or lower than Spanish rates? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmacvicar Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 ^ in the other thread it was discussed that he could qualify to not lose his Dutch passport based on the 2nd criteria "if before turning 18, the person has had a principal residence in the country of the other nationality for an uninterrupted period of five years;" so hopefully he wouldn't have to worry about any of the residence stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Yeah, it even says it above too. I read the first line "the person is born in the country of the other nationality and has a principal residence there at the time of acquisition of that nationality." ...and assumed that was what would stop him from losing his Dutch citizenship. But yes, the second line is the one that would work best: "if before turning 18, the person has had a principal residence in the country of the other nationality for an uninterrupted period of five years;" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinhaya Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 How does Marcel de Jong manage to play for Canada? Isn't JDG2 in a similar situation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oranje Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 de Jong never gave up his Canadian passport for a Dutch passport. Canada allows dual citizenship where as the good Voyageur Research Group found out, the Dutch aren’t as keen on the idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler453 Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 How does Marcel de Jong manage to play for Canada? Isn't JDG2 in a similar situation? I believe he was able to obtain a dual citizenship because his parents are Dutch. Family connection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finchster Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 How does Marcel de Jong manage to play for Canada? Isn't JDG2 in a similar situation? No not similar at all. Holland follows Jus Sanguinis (right of blood) principal to citizenship. This means De Jong acquires Dutch citizenship from his parents or his ‘blood’. Under Canadian citizenship law, De Jong acquires Canadian citizenship by being born in Canada and under Dutch nationality law this is one instance where he is allowed dual citizenship (those who acquire another citizenship at the time of birth). Lars Hirshfeld is a similar situation; born in Canada to German parents, Lars is allowed dual citizenship because he is ethnically German and acquired Canadian citizenship at the time of his birth. There are few nations like Canada or the USA that grant citizenship at the time of birth, this is the exception not the rule. Tam Nsaliwa is a similar situation as De Guzman, acquired an EU passport and renounced his Canadian citizenship. He was not able to re-acquire his citizenship and can’t play for Canada anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmacvicar Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Just thought of this, isn't his situation similar to Conrad Black in terms of renouncing and trying to re-acquire citizenship? I found this interview with an immigration lawyer about it http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/black_conrad/canada_return.html and from that it seems that the fact that he was born here will no longer help since he renounced his citizenship. Long story short, it looks like he may be able to have dual nationality, but it also looks like Canadian citizenship might be the greater hurdle since he doesn't plan on living here anytime soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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