jpg75 Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 If i recall correctly the last CSA financial statement posted by CoachRich (2009 or 2010 statement) somewhere on this site showed the CSA has $2M in cash reserves. (If someone has a copy, posting it here would be great....) Combined with the increase in registration fee levees of $5 per player (can someone confirm this was actually approved?) shouldn't the CSA have enough revenue to afford a decent coach for the MNT? How much is Stephen Hart being paid and what should we expect the CSA to be able to afford? Could the cash reserves be used to pay a premium on a short term deal to lure a quality coach? Your thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soccerpro Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 If i recall correctly the last CSA financial statement posted by CoachRich (2009 or 2010 statement) somewhere on this site showed the CSA has $2M in cash reserves. (If someone has a copy, posting it here would be great....) Combined with the increase in registration fee levees of $5 per player (can someone confirm this was actually approved?) shouldn't the CSA have enough revenue to afford a decent coach for the MNT? How much is Stephen Hart being paid and what should we expect the CSA to be able to afford? Could the cash reserves be used to pay a premium on a short term deal to lure a quality coach? Your thoughts. I'm pretty sure the extra $5 fee for each player was not approved. Would extra money best be spent on a MNT head coach right now? (I have no ideay myself) Or would it be wiser to pump it into youth development for the next few years and then go for 2018 (when most people think we realistically have a chance to qualify). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted October 16, 2011 Author Share Posted October 16, 2011 I'm pretty sure the extra $5 fee for each player was not approved. That's a serious downer, i thought it had been approved and the budget would be expanding. Would extra money best be spent on a MNT head coach right now? (I have no ideay myself) Or would it be wiser to pump it into youth development for the next few years and then go for 2018 (when most people think we realistically have a chance to qualify). Well, the amount of money ($500K per year) i'm talking about is not enough to expand the youth programs to the point where it would matter much. Plus, pouring any money into a youth program coached by the likes of Gazzolla and Fonseca seems like a waste of resources. On top of that with all the defections recently we're essentially paying to develop players for other nations. Once we get a credible senior coach then maybe the kids will want to play for the MNT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegan Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Do we really need to spend that much to upgrade over Hart? Seriously. Any coach would likely be an upgrade as others have said, just make sure you get one! How much would that cost us? We don't need a big name, get a former MLS coach (150-200k?).. Maybe a better question, how much does Hart make? You have to think managing this team for the next few years would be a huge opportunity for any ambitious coach.. looking at our draw he'll have a real shot at managing in the World Cup and making a name for himself. The CSA should have a team on the hunt right now FFS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kj52 Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Do we really need to spend that much to upgrade over Hart? Seriously. Any coach would likely be an upgrade as others have said, just make sure you get one! How much would that cost us? We don't need a big name, get a former MLS coach (150-200k?).. Maybe a better question, how much does Hart make? You have to think managing this team for the next few years would be a huge opportunity for any ambitious coach.. looking at our draw he'll have a real shot at managing in the World Cup and making a name for himself. The CSA should have a team on the hunt right now FFS. Memories appear to be a little short, we've gone the MLS route already if you'll think back a couple of years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
argh1 Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 If i recall correctly the last CSA financial statement posted by CoachRich (2009 or 2010 statement) somewhere on this site showed the CSA has $2M in cash reserves. (If someone has a copy, posting it here would be great....) Combined with the increase in registration fee levees of $5 per player (can someone confirm this was actually approved?) shouldn't the CSA have enough revenue to afford a decent coach for the MNT? How much is Stephen Hart being paid and what should we expect the CSA to be able to afford? Could the cash reserves be used to pay a premium on a short term deal to lure a quality coach? Your thoughts. Although the surplus would be well spent on MNT coaching but CSA also has a responsibility to the WNT and the grass roots of soccer. CSA has many responsibilities not just the MNT alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 I think the CSA absolutely needs to hire a new coach though I doubt they have the balls or football intelligence to do it. Hart was always going to be a dodgy hire due to his complete lack of pedigree and experience but since he did have the one good Gold Cup run I like many thought, give him a chance until the Gold Cup and let him prove himself. However, results up until the Gold Cup were mediocre and then the Gold Cup was a dismal failure. He should have been fired then and definitely with us playing poorly so far in the first round against the minnows he needs to be fired or moved to technical director (I think we need better in that job too but if he has to do something let him do that). Above I think it is obvious looking at the Gold Cup and WCQ games so far that this team is not well coached. I think a big reason that Hart is so conservative and takes no risks is that he is in completely above his head and knows it. If you get a job that you are completely unqualified for what do you do? Usually take the most conservative and textbook way to complete tasks because you do not have the knowledge or confidence to do new things. Seriously, this guy's only other experience coaching adult men is coaching Halifax King of Donair and he is our national team coach? Not to mention the long string of failure as a youth coach for Canada. His only success was that one good Gold Cup run but I think that was a team that caught on fire and had little to do with Hart. Coaching is not an exact science in which you can say we will hire this guy and the team will immediately play well. However, things like having respected coaching licences (What does he actually have? Probably a CSA licence but which one?) and experience coaching many teams in different situations particularly at a high level certainly count a lot as well. About the only thing Hart has going for him is that the players seem to like him. However, given that that is his main asset is he really going to make the hard decisions that a coach needs to make that might make some players unhappy? Did he choose DeRo as captain because he thought he was the best choice or because he thought he needs to keep DeRo happy lest he turn on him and the team like he did against Mitchell? The players like Hart but do they really respect and listen to him like they would someone who has pedigree? I agree with Keegan that we do not need to break the bank to hire a decent coach but hiring an out of work MLS coach or even one who is employed is not the solution. As kj52 points out that did not work well the last time. The majority of MLS coaches do not have the coaching experience needed for this job even if their experience is greater than Hart's. There are a few who do like Arena but for what we would pay for a guy like that I think we could do better. We don't need to break the bank but we do need a very significant upgrade in quality. I think in the 200 to 400 k range we could get someone really good if the CSA did their homework well. There are a lot of guys out there who can't be that expensive but who are good coaches with some experience. The one I have always mentioned is Bojan Prasnikar who had three runs as coach of Slovenia's national team, had very good results in Europe with the small team Maribor even qualifying once for the group stage of Champions League and in my opinion was an excellent coach for Energie Cottbus who was unjustly fired when they relegated (we had a budget similar to a midtable 2nd BL team and he managed to keep us in the 1st BL for one year and we barely got relegated the 2nd. What did the board expect with the money they gave him to work with and selling off players every year? Current coach Wollwitz is decent but it is 3 years we haven't promoted under him and he is a step down from Prasnikar in my opinion.) Prasnikar's last position was with Slovenian team NK Rudar Velenje and I am sure a team like that could not pay him that much so how expensive could he be? I am sure there are a lot of coaches with similar CVs that various people could post who would not break the bank yet would be significant upgrades over Hart. I also think the suggesting of saving the money for youth or 2018 is completely wrong. We have to take our chances when we have them and take our best shot at qualifying each time. Speculating that our next generation of players will be better is just that, speculation. In 2018 it is equally possible that Honduras and Costa Rica have produced an amazing crop of players and are almost unbeatable. It is a fool's game to insist the situation will necessarily be better in 4 years time. We have a team that is not outstanding but nevertheless has a similar talent level to other CONCACAF teams after Mexico and the US. Yes we might have to overperform to qualify but we have seen teams like Honduras being well coached and overperforming for years while we continue to underperform. Continually hiring coaches well below international team level and in Hart's case basically an amateur level coach is not good enough. I thought it was time to fire the last good coach we had, Ossieck, when he was fired because his style had a limited time span. However, if I knew we were going to follow him with Yallop, Mitchell and Hart I would have been screaming for him to be kept. Look at who we are facing as coaches in the next round. Yes the Cuban is not well known but that is not surprising since they are not allowed to play/coach outside the country and can't really hire an expensive foreigner and claim to be following communist principles. The Hondurans have Luis Fernandez Suarez. Compare his coaching record to Hart's: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luis_Fernando_Suárez The Panamanian coach's coaching resume is not as impressive but still he played in Serie A, Ligue 1 and La Liga as a player. And while he coached Panama's U17 and U20 like Hart, before he took over the national team he did a two year stint in Spain as assistent coach at Malaga: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julio_Dely_Valdés And the Panamanians were smart enough to sign him to a short term performance based contract that renews if they are successful. We need better than the coach of King of Donair! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forster01 Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 ^+1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegan Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Great post Grizz, how much do you think a coach such as Bojan Prasnikar would cost? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Great post Grizz, how much do you think a coach such as Bojan Prasnikar would cost? The average salary for a national team coach is apparently about $300 000. The current Slovenian coach makes about $350 000 and Bradley made a bit under $400 000 before he was fired. I think we could get a guy like Prasnikar around $300 000. If we weighted the contract with incentives possibly less than that, ie. a decent bonus if we qualify for the next round and the contract automatically renews at a bit higher salary for the Hex, similar to Panama's deal with Valdes. If we could find a similarly qualified South American we might be able to get them for a bit less money though not the guys who have worked in the top leagues and I sometimes find it hard to assess the guys who have worked in some of the lesser South American leagues. I actually think for an ambitious coach we could be pretty attractive, I think we have a decent chance at qualifying with our talent if managed properly and a bit of success with a team like Canada could really propel a coach into the top ranks and some big paydays. We are a major western country that is not expected to do well in soccer and if we suddenly did that would make people really notice. I was in Germany when we won the Gold Cup and Ossieck got a lot of press about that after some years of no one in Germany having heard his name for a while. That would be the way to approach contract negotiations with a perspective coach. Here is an article showing the coaching salaries in pounds of some of the coaches from the last World Cup who are obviously on the higher end of the pay scale (man is Capello ever overpaid): http://www.topnews.in/sports/fabio-capello’s-earnings-way-ahead-other-world-cup-coaches-27810 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keano Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Trappatoni took a pay cut to stay on as Ireland manager... presumably because of that sense of what he could do with the Irish versus what would be expected.... but he's also bat-**** crazy... I hope there's another of even half his pedigree out there somewhere that would have a similar attitude but I'm not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Brethers Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 I'm fairly sure we could get a decent coach in. We have got some decent players and I think quite a few exciting prospects which would entice an ambitious manager looking to get his name out there. For the moment we have TFC, Vancouver and Montreal to help with the youth development. When we start doing better and get more money in we can look at really developing grass roots level Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maccaliam Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Trappatoni took a pay cut to stay on as Ireland manager... presumably because of that sense of what he could do with the Irish versus what would be expected.... but he's also bat-**** crazy... I hope there's another of even half his pedigree out there somewhere that would have a similar attitude but I'm not sure. Are you sure Trappatoni took a pay cut to manage Ireland? I swear I remember hearing Ireland had a private investor who paid for Trappatoni because the FAI couldn't afford him themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted October 19, 2011 Author Share Posted October 19, 2011 I was watching the FC Dallas - TFC match last night and the camera is showing Dallas coach Schellas Hyndman talking to one of his players and i'm thinking to myself, how much is a guy like that being paid? and how much of a step up would he be over Stephen Hart? (that's a rhetorical question, the answer is A LOT) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soccerpro Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Slovenia and their manager part ways. This would be an ideal manager for Canada... http://espn.go.com/sports/soccer/news/_/id/7143639/slovenia-coach-matjaz-kek-split-missing-2012-european-championship-spot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingback6 Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Is there a fire Hart thread somewhere the pre-empts the beginning of this one... 'cause I don't Hart has been that bad. A little vain/aloof perhaps... but he has shown he is adaptable... consider the formation of the team prior to and post Gold Cup... 451 to 433 very different tactics... not many coaches at any price that aren't pig-headed and stubborn and we have one that learned from his mistakes... to be fair... most countries would have fired him after the GC... but I for one am glad we didn't... though if he hadn't have learned from his errors... I wouldn't have been sad to see him go. So before the financials are discussed... why are we even talking about this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keano Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Are you sure Trappatoni took a pay cut to manage Ireland? I swear I remember hearing Ireland had a private investor who paid for Trappatoni because the FAI couldn't afford him themselves. Yes but then he took a paycut to stay on after the situation changed... not sure the details Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killgod Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 perhaps an option? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obinna Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 I was watching the FC Dallas - TFC match last night and the camera is showing Dallas coach Schellas Hyndman talking to one of his players and i'm thinking to myself, how much is a guy like that being paid? and how much of a step up would he be over Stephen Hart? (that's a rhetorical question, the answer is A LOT) Respectfully dissagree. Schellas Hyndman's resume is no more impressive than Harts. Previously he coached 3 NCAA sides, Hart coached a few U-17 sides and a U-17 Canadian sides. Schellas Hyndman took FCD to the MLS final, Hart took Canada to the GC semi final and quarter final. Arguably compariable except Hart is far more experienced at the international level. Schellas Hyndman? Definatly not a step up. Steve Nicol is a more interesting case. He has coached in the MLS for 9 seasons, which admittidly holds more weight. But again, has never coached internationally and really, I do not think he is THAT much of an upgrade that we should remove Hart when A) The players like him He knows our player pool C) He knows CONCACAF. Replacing Hart is a moot point anyways because the CSA doesn't have enough money for a coach that would ACTUALLY make a difference. (i.e not Steve Nicol or Schellas Hyndman) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted October 27, 2011 Author Share Posted October 27, 2011 Respectfully dissagree. Schellas Hyndman's resume is no more impressive than Harts. Previously he coached 3 NCAA sides, Hart coached a few U-17 sides and a U-17 Canadian sides. Schellas Hyndman took FCD to the MLS final, Hart took Canada to the GC semi final and quarter final. Arguably compariable except Hart is far more experienced at the international level. Schellas Hyndman? Definatly not a step up. I'll disagree back, Hyndman coached at SMU for 24 years and never had a losing season. He turned out a bunch of pro players from his program and was consistently recognized as one of the top NCAA coaches. He consistently goes back to Brasil to upgrade his coaching skills and has been named to the the NSCAA coaching executive to help create coaching development programs. http://smumustangs.cstv.com/sports/m-soccer/mtt/hyndman_schellas00.html http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2011/10/25/playoffs-profile-success-no-surprise-devoted-hyndman Stephen Hart has never really had to fight for his livelihood aside from coaching in the NSSL (unsuccessfully leading the U17's through qualification and then getting promoted doesn't really count, does it?). His one saving grace is the SF berth in 2007. The QF berth in 2009 i see as a failure - losing to a Honduran B team is nothing to be proud of. Does his resume really make him comparable to any of the better MLS coaches? Would Hart even land an MLS job if he were back in the job hunt tomorrow? I would hire Hyndman and Nicol to replace Hart faster than a hummingbird farts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moldy9 Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Sergio Markarian, the Uruguayan who coaches Peru and took the struggling Blancyroja to a third place finish in Copa America and who has coached in Europe in the champions league is one of the most highly paid national team coaches in South America = $700,000. Canada should get a coach from South America who wants to cut his teeth in national football and get experience. There are so many knowledgeable coaches here so long as they are patient and don't lose it just cause Canada is not up to the passing speed, creativity and instinct of SA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegan Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 So... strike three for Mr. Hart? I was a fan of his when he was hired but an AWFUL Gold Cup and two disgusting performances back to back, who knows if it's his fault or the players but something needs to be done or we are done. We can't make the same mistake we did with Mitchell in 2008. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betterredthandead Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 So... strike three for Mr. Hart? I was a fan of his when he was hired but an AWFUL Gold Cup and two disgusting performances back to back, who knows if it's his fault or the players but something needs to be done or we are done. We can't make the same mistake we did with Mitchell in 2008. Yeah, they have to act now and make a change. Two draws against minnows is unacceptable. Any good coaches in the CSL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFCRegina Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 Yeah, they have to act now and make a change. Two draws against minnows is unacceptable. Any good coaches in the CSL? Anyone who has coached in the CSL would have more professional coaching experience than Stephen Hart. That's the sad thing. I hear Dwight Lodeweges is looking for work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonovision Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 Surely the more appropriate thread title would be "Can we afford NOT to hire a new coach". Enough is enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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