Whitecaps 2011 Review Thread

[ThiKu]

Yes, yes, the season isn't quite over yet. But the truth is...it is.

Designated Player: DeMerit and Jarju major let downs so far. Hassli is a starter on every team in MLS. Fantasic there.

Uniforms: Trivial but still....gotta bring back the blue shorts with the home kit. Must bring back the Blue bar on the home kit. WILL NOT BUY A KIT UNTIL THEY DO. They can't go claiming "since 1974" etc (which we all know is a fallacy anyway) and then NOT put the bar on the home shirt. I'd like to see a third kit next year that is either the yellow/blue of the Original 86'ers or maybe even the red/black/white which followed (though neither of those were adidas).

Draft: They did OK. Boxall played a lot but maybe his learning curve wasn't steep enough. Salgado though, playing well in MLS Reserves, hasn't been given a fair shot by the management. Nanchoff major let down due to fitness.

Expansion Draft: They did OK...but why oh why didn't they snag Nyassi??? At least they let go of OBW!

Financial Allocation: Woeful. Releasing Akloul etc without any financial savings....etc etc etc

Canadiana: Woeful. Wow, just wow! Must improve next year. I realize they can't just go and sign whoever they want with a Canadian passport but still....LET TEIBERT PLAY (not at LB!!)

Youth Development: Doing well in regards to getting youngsters into the CMNT u17's and some u20's. But even now the u18's are reflecting the men's team in that there are very few locals (in this case, kids from lower mainland and Island in BC). However, bringing youth into the first team? Very poor. (see Teibert and Salgado - though they have done well with Koffie and Boxall). Entered USSDA and developed u10-u18 programs locally. Major supporter of the new BC Soccer (Youth) Premier League...though it is my understanding they haven't yet sent scouts to any games...hopefully this changes (they are actively scouting the youngsters u10-u12 for sure).

Coaching: Shocking! So glad for the change in 2012!

Fan Interaction Management: Haven't been to a match. Haven't heard good things though (also, see last night's Sounders game!)

GK

Both are fine back-ups. FIND A #1! Canadian or otherwise.

Defenders

Boxall - Good back-up. But why they keep referring to him as "young" drives me nuts...he's 23!

Brovksy - Good back-up - but I'll ask "Is he better than Bellisomo?" REPLACE WITH A CANUCK IF POSSIBLE! Is he a defender or a midfielder!? He's neither. NASL or bust.

DeMerit - See how he does with a partner and is fit for extended period. He's been pretty woeful though. Wonder if something is going on none are privy to.

Duckett - Who? What? Why? Where? REPLACE WITH DRAFT PICK and/or CANUCK!

Harvey - Good back-up

Janicki - NASL or bust (Replace with Stalteri??)

Leathers - NASL or bust (Replace with Peters??)

Mitchell - TBD (seriously....a Tobagan!?)

Rochat - Stud.

Midfield

Dede - Brilliant. Keep him unless selling him to a European team - can't let him join another MLS team. Could you imagine him playing in the Mexican League? They'd love him there. Must be played centrally next season.

Davies - Wish we could know! Did OK against Citeh anyway...

Harris - Started so brightly. Will "be like a new signing next year" if he can stay fit.

Khalfan - NASL or bust. (replace with draft or Canuck)

Koffie - Stud!

Morfaw - NASL or bust (unfortunately - I liked him. Replace with draft or Canuck)

Nanchoff - TBD

Salinas - Great squad player. I like him personally.

Teibert - Give the kid consistent playing time or loan him out please (See how he does in NASL!) What a waste of his potential otherwise.

Thorrington - Meh. Not bad, not great. OK squad player. Find a Canuck of equal or lesser value if at all possible. Maybe give his spot to Alderson???

Vagenas - Drop him. Drop him now. Give the playing time to a Chiumento in the middle so Teibert can play wide left. Koffie will protect both. Replace with a Canuck or draft pick!

Forwards

Jarju - Maybe play him as a MF? As rumoured. Give him a pre-season and then judge. He was sharp last night barring the goal scoring attempts - which is of course what he is paid for! Let's see how he does in 2012. I can see why they got him but he is not a DP admittedly...at this point.

Camillo - Great player. Want him to get Canuck citizenship (#CamilloForCMNT!). Stop putting him on the wing unless you are going to play 4-3-3!

Hassli - Stud.

Salgado - Just like Teibert. Play him or loan him out. Seriously....Tan is getting in ahead of this kid!?

Tan - NASL or bust. Seriously he is taking a roster spot??? Replace with Canuck (Residency kids are bright up front) or draft.

Key factors in off-season? DRAFT PICKS! What Canadians can they sign that will actually contribute? Dropping the dead weight. Would vastly prefer a squad of 20 good players and give young residency kids the last 10 spots (or whatever MLS allows) than see guys like Duckett and Tan on the roster.

Spots up for grabs in First XI: GK, RB, CB, CM (Chiumento if I had my say), LM (Teibert for now), RM.

GK - EMPTY

RB - EMPTY

CB - EMPTY

CB - DeMerit

LB - Rochat

RM - EMPTY

CM - Koffie

CM - Chiumento

LM - Teibert

CF - Hassli

CF - Camillo

Preferred Formation with Current Squad: 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 could work as well.

What is bare minimum required in off-season? RB, CB, GK. WHO WILL START.

Canadians Caps Should Look at Signing:

REB - Bring him back! Can't tell me Tan is better than him.

Gage - Bring him back on loan?

Stalteri - Bring him in on trial?

Peters - Bring him in on loan or sign him outright. Can fill RM or RB role (and maybe CAM)

Issey - See what a transfer fee would be

Bernier - I know he is a "Montreal guy" but still...see what a transfer fee would be. Can play CM or RM very well.

McKenna - How is his playing time lately??

Friend - Please no!

Straith - Bring him back on loan? If can't get Peters and Diesel isn't fit enough

Ledgerwood - Must be better than Morfaw etc!

Pozniak - Same as Ledg!

Saiko, Porter, Hamilton - For me, especially look at Saiko as the Caps have a number of quality forwards and Porter could likely get a deal in Europe or another MLS team in need (San Jose?)

The reality is the Caps won't ever field a largely Canadian side unless they develop them themselves, and the ones I didn't list that are excellent are either earning much more (likely) than they would in MLS (Haber) or won't come to MLS just yet (Uccelllo...Stillo? Stama??).

[Keegan]

I think Vancouver, Toronto or Montreal would do well to get Hamilton from FC Edmonton, definitely an improvement over their CBs

[ThiKu]

Frings and Cann are both better than Hamilton. However, Montreal and Vancouver might do well to sign him.

[Soccerpro]

I'd like to see a Canadian MLS team give Shaun Saiko and Kyle Porter trials. Obviously Porter burned his bridges with the Whitecaps this year. I still think Porter or Teibert ahead of Salinas on the wing would be great.

[ThiKu]

Yes, I would definitely add Saiko, Porter, and Hamilton as players the Whitecaps should be looking at for next season as Canadians who are also upgrades on what they have. The issue could of course also be salary cap...?

I've edited my post to include those three as Canadians the Caps should consider. Let me also clarify, any Canadian I listed as ones the Caps should consider are also Canadians that TFC and Montreal should consider.

However, no way is Porter being picked-up by Caps or Montreal unless both are willing to say "Ooops." Porter will land with an American MLS team or go to Europe before then. Defo.

It's a dream of mine that the Caps pull a deal to bring in Will Johnson....but....

[Keegan]

Frings and Cann are both better than Hamilton. However, Montreal and Vancouver might do well to sign him.

Well if they got a decent CB they wouldn't need to play Frings there and Cann hasn't played this season and who knows what the future holds for him so I didn't really include him

[Grizzly]

Frings and Cann are both better than Hamilton. However, Montreal and Vancouver might do well to sign him.

Frings is better but I would sign Hamilton over Cann. Cann is quite overrated in my opinion and at best an mediocre starting CB in MLS. Yes he had a good season two years ago but it was also in a compact defensive system that really favoured his playing style and allowed many of his flaws to go unnotticed. He did not look that great this year in the more open system used by Winter before he got injured. Hamilton is a real physical presence and he has good speed for his size. His technical skills are not outstanding but neither are Cann's. What is really impressive with Hamilton though is how well he reads the game and can anticipate what is going to happen before others players on the field. I don't see that very much with Cann and that is why I think Hamilton can play up a level. They are probably similar level players right now but I think Hamilton will develop into a much better player than Cann. Admittedly, Cann did improve in Denmark but he was not nearly as good a defender in the USL (which was also not as strong as the current NASL) as Hamilton currently is.

[Lord Bob]

Cut: Cannon, Duckett, Harris, Thorrington, Janicki, Salinas, Tan, Harvey, Vagenas, sign Vagenas and cut him again just to make sure he gets the point.

Keep with heavily-crossed fingers: Morfaw, Khalfan, Nolly

[Grizzly]

However, no way is Porter being picked-up by Caps or Montreal unless both are willing to say "Ooops." Porter will land with an American MLS team or go to Europe before then. Defo.

I think the reason Porter did not sign in Montreal had to do more with the Caps holding his MLS rights than Montreal not rating him. Montreal was looking for players this year that we could bring to MLS so why develop someone only for the Caps to claim him next year? Obviously in retrospect he could have helped us this year but I think that was the main reason he did not sign with us. Any other MLS team wanting to sign him will have to compensate the Caps so they really have Porter over a barrel if he wants to play MLS. He would be a good player for an MLS team to take a chance on signing but is it worth taking a chance if you have to in addition provide compensation to Vancouver? I think this MLS rule is terribly unfair to players and is not good for player development.

[finchster]

Cut: Cannon, Duckett, Harris, Thorrington, Janicki, Salinas, Tan, Harvey, Vagenas, sign Vagenas and cut him again just to make sure he gets the point.

Keep with heavily-crossed fingers: Morfaw, Khalfan, Nolly

Cut Harris? That's a mistake

According to the players union he counted for 77.5k against the salary cap. A guy who looks like he might be a starter making that little you do not cut.

[smartlikefox]

I don't get all the hate on the Whitecaps for the lack of Canadian talent. Yea, more hardcore MNT supporters and the like notice it and don't like it, but do you think the casual fans really give a damn? Doubt it, they just want to see a winner.

People like to go on about look at TFC and the Canadians they are putting out there.. that's great, they've had several years to develop. Who did they trot out in the first season (I honestly can't remember) besides Brennan? They are making good strides in their development program but it needs time.

[Lord Bob]

Man, I've never liked Atiba Harris. No need to tell me about his gaudy scoring rates this season - I'm fully familiar with them - but that's a pretty small sample compared to the rest of his career. I thought his play was mediocre enough just before his injury that the Whitecaps should bench him in favour of Camilo (who has worked out pretty well), and that's without considering how he'll come back from a serious joint problem.

[youllneverwalkalone]

One of the problems with cutting everybody is that we have limited means to rebuild:

6 discovery signings

1 DP signing (assuming this does not count as a discovery)

6 draft picks

Academy signings

Trades

That's what we have to work with. Bassi, Fisk, and Clarke might be ready, but our best prospects in positions we need (Alderson & Stanese) are 94s and will likely play one more year of U18.

Personally, I think Morfaw, Khalfan, the new guy from T&T, and probably Boxall need to make way for some proven professionals from abroad who bring some toughness and guile on the defensive side, but who are also competent playing the ball forward. (DM, RB, CB). This probably means three veteran Scots under Rennie. We'll need between $400-600k to get that done salary cap wise which probably means we can't sign a third DP.

Trades are going to be really important. Salgado has been discussing going to Spain in the near future because he can't get enough playing time in MLS (not sure I understand that logic) but with him, DeMerit, the 2nd overall pick, we should be able to bring in Jakovic, Hainault, and Johnson. Aside from being Canucks, those three guys are proven MLSers and will give our club an identity and some much needed help on the defensive side.

Speaking of Canadians, interesting that former Caps Hirschfeld and Pozniak are both out of contract in December. I'd love to see these two come home, even if the latter is just cover on the backline.

This is what I'd like to see next March:

---------------------Hirschfeld---------------------

Mo Ross-------Hainault-------Jakovic---------Rochat

---------Johnson--------------------Koffie----------

---Chiumiento----------Jarju---------------Camilo---

---------------------Hassli--------------------------

[El Hombre]

I don't get all the hate on the Whitecaps for the lack of Canadian talent.

You know this is a Canadian Soccer Supporters forum, right?

People like to go on about look at TFC and the Canadians they are putting out there.. that's great, they've had several years to develop.

The Residency program has been around since 2005. It's older than TFC. If anything, Vancouver has had longer to develop, just in that regard, let alone the players they could've brought with them from NASL.

I don't think anyone here is looking for the majority of the starting 11 to be Canadian. However, the fact that it became the norm since about mid-July for Vancouver to dress an entire 18-man roster of non-Canadians is a goddamn travesty. Then, after letting numerous Canadians walk away from the team that could've been serviceable bench players (Bellisomo, Porter, Edwini-Bonsu etc.) they go out and grab a 24 year-old Trinidadian who has played his entire career with the mighty Joe Public. That's just the icing on the cake.

[youllneverwalkalone]

^2007. The PDL/Reserve side has been around since 2005.

[Soro17]

Front office gets a fail with respect to coordinating / distributing tickets for the BC Place games. I waited in line for 20 minutes before the match on Saturday only to be told that their network was down and the tickets would be couriered out this week (I am skeptical about their ability to pull this off). The other options for ticket pick-up were to wander down to Gastown or pay for courier delivery. I don't normally mind waiting in line, but while waiting in line I got to see the dead-beat Sounders fans get escorted past. One thing is for sure, our fans are much better looking.

Anyway, from a general point of view this year, communication with season ticket holders has been very poor, as in late, incomplete and often incoherent.

[ThiKu]

Bob, I agree the Caps need to shed some dead weight. But Harvey, Harris, Salinas, and Thorrington are all serviceable. The rest certainly all need to go. They should all remain. They are all excellent squad players who can certainly play a role over the course of the season - especially if the Caps ever win the NCC and find themselves in the CCL group stage.

I'd be stoked, over the moon, if the Caps signed Hirschfeld. Instant upgrade, and he's Canadian. Probably cost a fortune though in salary.

[El Hombre]

^2007. The PDL/Reserve side has been around since 2005.

D'oh, you're right. Thanks for the correction.

[finchster]

Bob, I agree the Caps need to shed some dead weight. But Harvey, Harris, Salinas, and Thorrington are all serviceable. The rest certainly all need to go. They should all remain. They are all excellent squad players who can certainly play a role over the course of the season - especially if the Caps ever win the NCC and find themselves in the CCL group stage.

I'd be stoked, over the moon, if the Caps signed Hirschfeld. Instant upgrade, and he's Canadian. Probably cost a fortune though in salary.

Thorrington can go according to the MLS players union he is paid 195k, far too much if he isn't starting. Harris makes 77k, Harvey 62k and Salinas 44k. All reasonable salaries for squad players.

[Lord Bob]

I agree, Thorrington's a decent player (if he ever gets healthy again, and it's been a couple seasons for him now) but at $195,000 he's just awful value. Value is everything.

Harvey would be worth keeping if he managed to provide the form in Vancouver he showed in Philadelphia. Big "if". I probably wouldn't cut him until Martin Rennie got a crack with him but if Rennie couldn't get much, look out.

[ThiKu]

Agree - if that's Thorrington's salary (which I assume you guys are correct) then he either has to have his salary lowered or cut next year. They could probably sign Saiko for $75k and still he'd be a steal.

[Gordon]

I think Demerit is a good player, and all too often we (and the teams themselves) forget that sometimes it takes a season for a player to get used to a new league and show their real quality. Especially when they miss portions of it.

Nevertheless, from a Salary perspective, if the ‘caps can move Cannon, Demerit and Thorrington, they could easily afford Hainault, Jacovic and Johnson with approximately $140,000 to go towards Hirschfeld*. I thought the last data anyone posted for Hirsch was a salary of €105,000 or approximately $140,000-$150,000 cdn depending upon exchange rates. Just an example of course using Canadians, but there is $713,000 tied up in those three players and for what was recieved in return, the 'caps can do better.

*calculated based on 2011 guaranteed compensation rather than base salary.

[loyola]

I’m not sure I feel like I want to review the VWFC season but I think we, the V’s, should be reviewing the VWFC place in our forum. I truly think the discussions about VWFC belongs to the World Soccer forum. That's my only comment about their season.

[Guest Ed]

I don't get all the hate on the Whitecaps for the lack of Canadian talent. Yea, more hardcore MNT supporters and the like notice it and don't like it, but do you think the casual fans really give a damn? Doubt it, they just want to see a winner.

People like to go on about look at TFC and the Canadians they are putting out there.. that's great, they've had several years to develop. Who did they trot out in the first season (I honestly can't remember) besides Brennan? They are making good strides in their development program but it needs time.

IF they were even remotely respectable without playing any Canadians, the venom would be coming from those of us who think teams playing in Canada should HAVE TO PLAY CDNS. They are not even close to that though. So why not switch it up and try playing some Cdns?

[Keegan]

Funny how Vancouver made almost exactly the same mistake TFC did. They built up and hyped up a fan base and they tried to paint **** gold with a bunch of foreign flags. This team isn't a potato, it's a bunch of french fries (no pun intended). The elevens they've put out make absolutely no sense, as I said earlier in the season it's like they're playing EA Sports FIFA, throwing out the 'highest rated' players instead of a cohesive XI. If you watched their first match with TT in charge (vs. TFC at home) that XI made sense to me, Koffie and Dunfield in the middle could actually put a halt to an attack, Teibert actually tracked back on the left wing. Then what happened? Camilo emerged and earned his starting spot. But instead of dropping someone who would make sense Vancouver looked to appease every undersized attacking player at once.