2012 CONCACAF Women’s Olympic Qualifying 19-29 January 2012

[Gian-Luca]

For the same reason parent at a kids game are removed from the stands or sidelines and later go in to league discipline along with their kids coach and club.

And what does that have to do with these national team games that are being discussed here? These aren't kids games, we are talking about the national teams here in this forum and in this thread. And this still doesn't answer my question about what sportsmanship has to do with non-sportsmen watching in the crowd, which is exactly what fans and spectators are. It's a complete fallacy and broken analogy to compare supporters in the stands at national team & professional games to parents coaching their kids in little league or amateur level. The supporters on this forum that you are having a go at are the ones that show up and support the historically-poorly-supported national teams, and are the exact type of spectator that our national team players, coaches and staff wish we had even more of. Unless there's a history of Canadian supporter chucking batteries, knives and bags of urine at our opposition or rioting in the stands while burning Albanian flags causing us to play in empty stadiums and/or forfeit matches, I'm not seeing what the issue is or why you are taking a shot at the people who dare to support the Canadian national teams in person.

[CoachRich]

And what does that have to do with these national team games that are being discussed here? These aren't kids games, we are talking about the national teams here in this forum and in this thread. And this still doesn't answer my question about what sportsmanship has to do with non-sportsmen watching in the crowd, which is exactly what fans and spectators are. It's a complete fallacy and broken analogy to compare supporters in the stands at national team & professional games to parents coaching their kids in little league or amateur level. The supporters on this forum that you are having a go at are the ones that show up and support the historically-poorly-supported national teams, and are the exact type of spectator that our national team players, coaches and staff wish we had even more of. Unless there's a history of Canadian supporter chucking batteries, knives and bags of urine at our opposition or rioting in the stands while burning Albanian flags causing us to play in empty stadiums and/or forfeit matches, I'm not seeing what the issue is or why you are taking a shot at the people who dare to support the Canadian national teams in person.

There is no "complete fallacy and broken analogy" when yobs are compared to parents who spectate or coach at kids games and act the same with their actions and communication. Why are fans wondering why the BCPlace security has clamped down at the OQ's that's in a public space where it's family viewing. Sure it's great that the people here are huge supporters but ask yourself like the screamers at a kids game how many on the fence fans don't want to bother showing up or bringing their families. BTW some on the players are still in their teens. MEX has one who's only 16.

[The Ref]

And what does that have to do with these national team games that are being discussed here? These aren't kids games, we are talking about the national teams here in this forum and in this thread. And this still doesn't answer my question about what sportsmanship has to do with non-sportsmen watching in the crowd, which is exactly what fans and spectators are. It's a complete fallacy and broken analogy to compare supporters in the stands at national team & professional games to parents coaching their kids in little league or amateur level. The supporters on this forum that you are having a go at are the ones that show up and support the historically-poorly-supported national teams, and are the exact type of spectator that our national team players, coaches and staff wish we had even more of. Unless there's a history of Canadian supporter chucking batteries, knives and bags of urine at our opposition or rioting in the stands while burning Albanian flags causing us to play in empty stadiums and/or forfeit matches, I'm not seeing what the issue is or why you are taking a shot at the people who dare to support the Canadian national teams in person.

I rarely agree with you, but in this case I do. I think CoachRich needs to get out more and shake off the cobwebs.

[lovetoplay]

1) Good job Voyageurs et Canadian fans! You were loud and clear on CONCACAF TV.

2) Work commitments prevent me from attending this tourney, but the play against CR cast the same foreboding shadows that emerged during my month in Germany at the WWC. One need only recollect the differences between Canada and France, with respect to first touches, ball support, and pursuit support, to get to the heart of my concern.

Finally a post about the latest game...I thought this thread was about the games...not the guys who watch the games...

I thought that the first half of the Costa Rica game was brilliant, great fun to watch. Canada was quick, focused, attacked with a purpose...great passes, goals, everyone on the pitch performed brilliantly, individually and as a unit. Parker and Kyle had particularly good games, and Woeller was solid as a rock. Sinclair again set the tone setting up one play after the next. Her service is impeccable. The only thing which was not working for the team were the set plays. Still no success with a corner...(unless I missed something). Zurrer's head would have been handy in the box.

The second half, on the other hand was like watching paint dry. Different game altogether. Canada looked like they changed their strategy to a defensive strategy, the quickness and purpose was gone replaced with fewer tackles and challenges and a more safe, defensive playing style...which led to a few sloppy moments. There was no doubt a change of strategy...hopefully just a strategy to protect the players from injury, risking nothing when nothing is needed. I'm not convinced that they ran out of steam or couldn't sustain the first half effort.

I don't get the sense that they are in the same place mentally as in Germany. These girls were happy and relaxed...Schmidt, Sinclair, Kyle were working their butts off but with a smile on their faces. The team really seems to be enjoying the moment and it shows in their play. I felt that in the first half, their speed on the ball, the quality of their passes, the creativity of their attack and consistency of their play was far superior to what we saw in Germany.

I am really looking forward to the game against Mexico. If Canada can come out like they did in the first half and sustain that level of focus and purpose, they will be on their way to London, no doubt in my mind.

[Joe MacCarthy]

Or, perhaps let people, such as Kara Lang, handle womens telecasts whom can bring more in depth understanding of our womens nats to the table instead of using Dobson and Forrest for everything.

Kara Lang has added little to the broadcasts for me. I much prefer Clare Rustad. Kara was supposed to be the public face for women's soccer but her discomfort and inexperience commentating are very visible. Personally, I was very impressed with the one on one Karina LeBlanc had with Stephen Brunt. Poised and articulate, all she needs is a good hairdresser and, hell I say, put her on the air. Oops, I'm heckling, Coach Redick will report me to the "fan" police.

[Gian-Luca]

There is no "complete fallacy and broken analogy" when yobs are compared to parents who spectate or coach at kids games and act the same with their actions and communication.

Yes, other than the fact that these games are not kids games but national teams & pro games, that the supporters are not parents of the players and that the supporters are also not coaches of the players and that the very nature and motivation of the supporters actions are usually completely different than a parent or coach (especially with the notion of heckling or booing someone who has switched nationality allegiances, which no doubt occurs all the time in kids games), it's a perfect analogy.

[rob.notenboom]

Kara Lang has added little to the broadcasts for me. I much prefer Clare Rustad. Kara was supposed to be the public face for women's soccer but her discomfort and inexperience commentating are very visible. Personally, I was very impressed with the one on one Karina LeBlanc had with Stephen Brunt. Poised and articulate, all she needs is a good hairdresser and, hell I say, put her on the air. Oops, I'm heckling, Coach Redick will report me to the "fan" police.

1) Give Kara some time.

2) Can't help but be bemused about the inability to distinguish between fan behaviour at an international tournament and the 14-and-under game down the way.

3) More importantly, Canada will have a game to play against Mexico who showed last night that they are by no means a pushover (if it wasn't obvious prior). One or two losses of concentration on the back line like we had against Costa Rica and it might pop the women's confidence like the housing market in Phoenix.

[Joe MacCarthy]

A fair amount of talent was not on this roster (for one reason or another) Jodi-Ann Robinson, Jonelle Filigno, Josée Bélanger, Stephanie Labbé, Emily Zurrer, Marie-Eve Nault and Monica Lam-Feist. What's the poop on them? Injuries, club, school, sub performance? Who else is in the mix?

And how did Aysha Jamani and Veronique Miranda fall off the radar so quickly.

[lovetoplay]

Kara Lang has added little to the broadcasts for me. I much prefer Clare Rustad. Kara was supposed to be the public face for women's soccer but her discomfort and inexperience commentating are very visible. Personally, I was very impressed with the one on one Karina LeBlanc had with Stephen Brunt. Poised and articulate, all she needs is a good hairdresser and, hell I say, put her on the air. Oops, I'm heckling, Coach Redick will report me to the "fan" police.

I too am a big fan of Clare Rustad as a commentator. She has what it takes to be the number one, not just the sidekick. But in all fairness to Kara Lang, she has been improving as the tournament advances. And most twenty somethings don't go on major national broadcasts for their first job and most retired athletes coming into this position are much older and more experienced with media than Kara Lang. She retired young due to injury and is freshly out of school. Lots of life experience to come, but I think she will do fine given the time to develop her broadcasting skills.

[red card]

Kara Lang has added little to the broadcasts for me. I much prefer Clare Rustad. Kara was supposed to be the public face for women's soccer but her discomfort and inexperience commentating are very visible. Personally, I was very impressed with the one on one Karina LeBlanc had with Stephen Brunt. Poised and articulate, all she needs is a good hairdresser and, hell I say, put her on the air. Oops, I'm heckling, Coach Redick will report me to the "fan" police.

Karina actually is a sideline reporter for Fox Soccer - seen her do some MLS matches last year. But agree with Kara, other than a point she made about Mottershead who was overlooked by Forrest & Dobson, she takes a lot of time to say very little. Though, I have been more disappointed with Forrest with some of his over the top comments about how great some of these players are - he sounds more like American broadcasters or McGuire at the World Juniors.

By the way, the atmosphere at USA/Mexico was considered electric and it wasn't because of type of people and decorum favoured by somebody on this thread and the security at BC Place and other venues.

[Lord Bob]

The crowd was really pro-Mexico, though, and you could tell the poor little girls on the American team were really getting down because of all the abuse they were taking.

(What's that? They're grown women playing at a higher level than virtually anybody on this board could dream of and rose to the occasion with all the professionalism and grace you'd expect from leading international soccer teams like these? Well, ****!)

[RS]

They are basically no different than a game in a public park as they are in the public domain with kids in attendance and some players are still kids.

When you buy that ticket you are subject to not only the rules of stadium management http://www.canadasoccer.com/files/Prohibited_Items_BC_Place_EN.pdf and etc but also the rules of the entity who is renting it and public norms and laws. You are subject to removal.

Btw do you heckle, swear and etc in front of your kids? If not why would you do in front of someone else kids and in public? And the public wonders why football games are played in empty stadiums.

What games are played in empty stadiums?

Attendance for this sport is constantly growing in this country. And, shockingly, they're not the milquetoast kinds of crowds that you are advocating for.

You can lecture everyone on this supporters group message board about your naive views on crowd behaviour, or you can come to the realization that the world is not child-proofed. Either way, the growth is going to keep happening.

[The Ref]

A fair amount of talent was not on this roster (for one reason or another) Jodi-Ann Robinson, Jonelle Filigno, Josée Bélanger, Stephanie Labbé, Emily Zurrer, Marie-Eve Nault and Monica Lam-Feist. What's the poop on them? Injuries, club, school, sub performance? Who else is in the mix?

And how did Aysha Jamani and Veronique Miranda fall off the radar so quickly.

Someone told me that Jamani got pissed with the program. Too bad, she was a goal scorer. I also miss Filigno who IMO is a far better striker than Julien. I like Labbé's smile, it lifts my spirit. I also think that Robyn Gayle is a far better player than the aging Wilkinson. More mobile, good dribbling skills and effective crosses. That goal that Costa Rica scored against us where Craig Forrest blamed Gayle for it, I disagree with Forrest. I blame LeBlanc for not shouting to Gayle to turn or that she had a woman behind her. LeBlanc was always facing the play, while Gayle was not.

[CoachRich]

What games are played in empty stadiums?

Attendance for this sport is constantly growing in this country. And, shockingly, they're not the milquetoast kinds of crowds that you are advocating for.

You can lecture everyone on this supporters group message board about your naive views on crowd behaviour, or you can come to the realization that the world is not child-proofed. Either way, the growth is going to keep happening.

Games outside of US and Canada have been played in empty stadiums due to the actions or the supporters right. It's not a problem that has always been there but has grown with time. It's so bad that the UK enacted Section 27 which is really ugly in my books.

Remembering my days on the terraces of Ipswich Town in the early 70's the supporters where quite different than today. Heck I even enjoyed and didn't even feel uncomfortable going to the derby up in Norwich.

My views are not naive. I'd say they are more in line with those of the CONCACAF, CSA and BC Place. If anything many are failing here to understand the actions of BC Place security and have maybe not read the guidelines posted by the CSA. Bottom line is the sportsmanship on the field is best to be mirrored by the supporters in the stands to make the sport grow. Otherwise it become like sending the bad adults at a kids game home as they don't understand they are guests in the athletes environment.

[CoachRich]

Yes, other than the fact that these games are not kids games but national teams & pro games, that the supporters are not parents of the players and that the supporters are also not coaches of the players and that the very nature and motivation of the supporters actions are usually completely different than a parent or coach (especially with the notion of heckling or booing someone who has switched nationality allegiances, which no doubt occurs all the time in kids games), it's a perfect analogy.

It's the athletes environment and it's in public as well.....like a kids game. What BC Place security is doing like youth leagues is getting people to fall in line with the sport and the public.

Btw if you want to make Ms Leroux dual citizenship, her choices some big issue or boo her go ahead as you only embarrass Canada which is the only reason it's in the news....like people booing the another nations anthem and etc. Further if you don't want to take the high road like the USWNT fans with players from other countries who have done like Ms Leroux but only to the USWNT, that is your choice.

[RS]

Games outside of US and Canada have been played in empty stadiums due to the actions or the supporters right.

My views are not naive.

Why yes, yes they are.

You're comparing the relatively tame atmosphere of North American crowds to the extremes in Europe. Please enlighten me as to who is advocating for the types of extreme behaviour that would call for such heavy-handed measures as seen in response to the worst of the fan actions in Europe.

Connecting the burdgeoning supporters culture here with the worst of what is seen in Europe is insulting and condescending. The average Blue Jays game sees more arrests than the average TFC game, so perhaps you should be saving your "concern" for the vicious baseball "yobs."

[Guest Ed]

I never thought I would use the word 'pantywaist' in a post. Perhaps this is the time. But before I do, a question for Coach Rich: I haven't heard anything concrete about foul language used at these qualifying games. Given that, are you getting all uptight over the fact that a player was boo'd at the game???? Or just the horror of a sign saying the player was not welcome??

I have a young daughter and though it may put you off your food for a week, I typically am given the 'field marshall' duties at her quite clearly non-top-tier games. My duties are mainly to keep the parents off the kids and referees and I have surprisingly had full grown men & women challenge me at her games when I tell them to refrain from negative comments at the kids and/or referees. I think that kind of behaviour is in very poor form for youth recreational soccer. But international soccer is quite different would you not agree. If you don't, can I suggest you also float a new 'let's not keep score' idea for such contests. Don't want to offend the pretty young things!!

[shermanator]

So, any predictions on attendance for the Canada / Mexico semifinals? Think we can top 15000?

[CoachRich]

I never thought I would use the word 'pantywaist' in a post. Perhaps this is the time. But before I do, a question for Coach Rich: I haven't heard anything concrete about foul language used at these qualifying games. Given that, are you getting all uptight over the fact that a player was boo'd at the game???? Or just the horror of a sign saying the player was not welcome??

I have a young daughter and though it may put you off your food for a week, I typically am given the 'field marshall' duties at her quite clearly non-top-tier games. My duties are mainly to keep the parents off the kids and referees and I have surprisingly had full grown men & women challenge me at her games when I tell them to refrain from negative comments at the kids and/or referees. I think that kind of behaviour is in very poor form for youth recreational soccer. But international soccer is quite different would you not agree. If you don't, can I suggest you also float a new 'let's not keep score' idea for such contests. Don't want to offend the pretty young things!!

The way I play, coach, admin and discipline sports, I find the Ms Leroux treatment distasteful and lacking respect. Btw I believe the sign was removed at the request of BCP. I prefer to see the high road like how the US fans not doing anything about Sesselmann, Noyola and others.

BCP staff and many others understand it's a family environment. I'd say it's fairly similar to a kid games on the weekend that you sadly have to marshall and sadly I've had to see adults that you talk about in discipline. Regardless of the games being internationals it's a family environment so act accordingly. I guess some folks are very uptight about keeping the family environment as it's my understanding that BCP will not even let fans use the word sucks. As for me, I have no problem asking someone to refrain or being asked to leave if they are swearing, a bad drunk or acting like a roided out adult around kids. Whether it a kids game or a international, the same rules of respect apply for me.

[CoachRich]

Why yes, yes they are.

You're comparing the relatively tame atmosphere of North American crowds to the extremes in Europe. Please enlighten me as to who is advocating for the types of extreme behaviour that would call for such heavy-handed measures as seen in response to the worst of the fan actions in Europe.

Connecting the burdgeoning supporters culture here with the worst of what is seen in Europe is insulting and condescending. The average Blue Jays game sees more arrests than the average TFC game, so perhaps you should be saving your "concern" for the vicious baseball "yobs."

Over time Europe and similar went that direction. They are really tough in the UK but IMO they went overboard with Section 27. Hence what direction do you want things to go over here is the question.

[Raven]

So, any predictions on attendance for the Canada / Mexico semifinals? Think we can top 15000?

Not sure depends how much they open up the lower bowl. They've restricted seating to half of it for the games so far...so about 10,000. But they have opened up the whole lower bowl for the final 20,000. Got my tickets today for Friday's (not many left) and Sunday's game.

[Mapleblood]

The Eskimos brownshirted the "family atmosphere" meme for a number of years. Every year, season ticket sales dropped off, as did game day ticket purchases. Market research lead them to do a 180 on the family meme. Now, Eskimo adverts emphasize rivalries and a party atmosphere.

Why? Because the family demographic does not buck up like adult male sports fans. (This said, they created family-friendly sections, which, unfortunately, have only had modest success in addressing concerns like yours. Frankly, they need a wall.)

Sports history indicates that the sports-philia shared by most fans is not that which you find to be most pure. Standard sports-philia tends to be more tribal. It's why "own the podium" was such a hit with Canadians. It's why Greek villages fully sponsored Olympic athletes 2300 years ago. Us/them is one of the most enduring narratives in sport.

This does not mean that your view lacks merit. It simply means that the other tradition has inertia,(which might indicate that it also has some merit that is not immediately clear to those focussed on sport as simply the/a game).

Clearly the tribal pint is something you are not interested in. That's fair, de gustibus non est disputandum. A compromise is in order. Let's arrange a wall. We'll drink pints on our side. Your side can drink the kool-aid.

[CanadianSpur]

I prefer to see the high road like how the US fans not doing anything about Sesselmann, Noyola and others.

The US fans are not taking the high road. Most have have no idea that Sesselmann is American. Any that do know this fact also know that Sesselmann never had the option of playing for the US as she wasn't considered for her program. Even some fans who I would assume are very knoweldge able about the program didn't know about Sesselmann. I sat beside Rachel Rapinoe (Megan's sister) at the the US Guatamala match and she understood why Leroux was being booed and didn't really have a problem with it. Even she didn't know about Sesselman. The American fans did however enjoy taunting fans of Mexico in my section so I guess this is taking the high road?

[rob.notenboom]

The Eskimos brownshirted the "family atmosphere" meme for a number of years. Every year, season ticket sales dropped off, as did game day ticket purchases. Market research lead them to do a 180 on the family meme. Now, Eskimo adverts emphasize rivalries and a party atmosphere.

Why? Because the family demographic does not buck up like adult male sports fans. (This said, they created family-friendly sections, which, unfortunately, have only had modest success in addressing concerns like yours. Frankly, they need a wall.)

Sports history indicates that the sports-philia shared by most fans is not that which you find to be most pure. Standard sports-philia tends to be more tribal. It's why "own the podium" was such a hit with Canadians. It's why Greek villages fully sponsored Olympic athletes 2300 years ago. Us/them is one of the most enduring narratives in sport.

This does not mean that your view lacks merit. It simply means that the other tradition has inertia,(which might indicate that it also has some merit that is not immediately clear to those focussed on sport as simply the/a game).

Clearly the tribal pint is something you are not interested in. That's fair, de gustibus non est disputandum. A compromise is in order. Let's arrange a wall. We'll drink pints on our side. Your side can drink the kool-aid.

+1

[Soccer9]

Not sure depends how much they open up the lower bowl. They've restricted seating to half of it for the games so far...so about 10,000. But they have opened up the whole lower bowl for the final 20,000. Got my tickets today for Friday's (not many left) and Sunday's game.

What's the issue with limiting it to the lower bowl, or restricting to one side etc etc? If we can get 30K why cant BCP handle this?? Is it just so the crowd looks better on TV?

What am I missing?