Bertuzzi44 Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 So born and raised in Canada means nothing? His birth certificate says Ontario on it and he would still be dealt with as an immigrant? This situation sucks. Not that JDG2 ever wanted to represent the Red and White anyway... :'( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finchster Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 (edited) So born and raised in Canada means nothing? His birth certificate says Ontario on it and he would still be dealt with as an immigrant? Yes, Canada is a very generous country with our nationality laws but renouncing your citizenship in any nation is the poison pill, he loses all rights and privileges of being a Canadian citizen. Edited September 23, 2011 by finchster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyslexic nam Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 so fook em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Yes, Canada is a very generous country with our nationality laws but renouncing your citizenship in any nation is the poison pill, he loses all rights and privileges of being a Canadian citizen. As it should be. http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/citizenship/renounce.asp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villus Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 (edited) Canada still grants citizenship, just because the rules say X, does'nt mean they can't be stretched at the request of a national team. He is born and raised in Canada and has his whole family here, something could be done if he decided to play for Canada, I would be willing to bet a good amount of money on that. Lets not confuse Fifa eligibility rules with a sovereign country's own citizenship rules. One is very strict and cannot be adjusted and the other is not, and under Fifa JDG2 is a green light, getting the Canadian end figured out is the much easier of the 2. Edited September 24, 2011 by villus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshieScores Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 I think these facts will give us a better perspective on whether JDG2 will come back. Time it takes to renounce your Canadian citizenship = 3 months http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/times/canada/cit-renunciation.asp Time it takes to resume your Canadian citizenship = 24 months http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/times/canada/cit-resumption.asp Regrettably, I would think he'd rather play a few meaningless friendlies for Holland than go through the trouble of re-applying and waiting for 2 years. Sucks but true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finchster Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 (edited) Canada still grants citizenship, just because the rules say X, does'nt mean they can't be stretched at the request of a national team. He is born and raised in Canada and has his whole family here, something could be done if he decided to play for Canada, I would be willing to bet a good amount of money on that. . The government of Canada doesn’t speed up the citizenship process for an athlete. Take the case of former Toronto Raptors player Matt Bonner, he lived in Toronto for two years, married a Canadian girl and in interviews has stated he would like to settle in Canada at the end of his career. In 2009 Bonner applied for his citizenship in order to play for Canada, it is 2011 and he has not received it. He is currently married to a Canadian it should be a slam dunk but it isn’t for Bonner. Why should it be so easy for someone who renounced their citizenship to regain it? Lets not confuse Fifa eligibility rules with a sovereign country's own citizenship rules. One is very strict and cannot be adjusted and the other is not, and under Fifa JDG2 is a green light, getting the Canadian end figured out is the much easier of the 2. Let’s look at the FIFA eligibly rules more closely, Article 15 Principle 1 Any person holding a permanent nationality that is not dependent on residence in a certain country is eligible to play for the representative teams of the Association of that country. This is the key phrase, “holding a permanent nationality”. If he is renounced his citizenship, he is no longer holding Canadian nationality. Let’s look at article 16 for clarification. Nationality entitling players to represent more than one Association 1 A Player who, under the terms of art. 15, is eligible to represent more than one Association on account of his nationality, may play in an international match for one of these Associations only if, in addition to having the relevant nationality , he fulfils at least one of the following conditions: (a) He was born on the territory of the relevant Association; ( His biological mother or biological father was born on the territory of the relevant Association; © His grandmother or grandfather was born on the territory of the relevant Association; (d) He has lived continuously on the territory of the relevant Association for at least two years. The Key phrase here is in addition to having the relevant nationality all those other conditions apply, it isn’t these conditions apply and your nationality is irrelevant. Think of citizenship as the link to this nation. Players have represented Canada in the past and present with minor links to this nation that make you scratch your head. Guys like Pedro Pacheo who I believe acquired it via his mother (I think so) and Marc Bircham from his Grandfather. Links did exist for these players to acquire Canadian nationality and play for us despite being minor, but renouncing your citizenship permanently cuts that link all together. Marc Bircham is more Canadian than De Guzman in the eyes of the law So inclosing I am not 100% certain De Guzman has renounced his Canadian citizenship, after reading the law and comments made by De Guzman (I don't think I am eligible to play for Canada anymore) I am fairly sure he has. If he has renounced his citizenship he is not Canadian and does not qualify to play for Canada under any circumstance. To play for Canada he would have to come here as an immigrant and go through the immigration process. If someone can find out for sure that he has or has not renounced his citizenship, it would go a long way (twitter? Haha). If he has it is already over he is Dutch and only Dutch. If he hasn’t then there might be a reason to pine for him (I doubt it) @JoshieScores JDG2 would also have to live in Canada full time to resume his citizenship, he isn't leaving Villarreal for Toronto FC any time soon. Edited September 24, 2011 by finchster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFC07 Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 JDG2 is never going to play for Canada. So let it go! Hoillet we still have a chance, but I get the feeling he's waiting to see if he can make it to England national team first. I don't think Hoillet will ever play for Jamaica. I haven't heard anything about Jamaica trying to recruit him or Hoillet openly considering playing for Jamaica. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finchster Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 JDG2 is never going to play for Canada. So let it go! Hoillet we still have a chance, but I get the feeling he's waiting to see if he can make it to England national team first. I don't think Hoillet will ever play for Jamaica. I haven't heard anything about Jamaica trying to recruit him or Hoillet openly considering playing for Jamaica. Hoilett in my opinion is waiting to see if he could get an England national team call up, he is waiting until he is eligible for UK citizenship. Then and only then will he make his decision. To be honest if he isn’t good enough for England I wouldn’t be surprised to see him not play international football all together. There is no money to be made in Europe playing for Canada or Jamaica. Playing and performing for a European nation can get you transferred to bigger clubs and larger salaries, playing in the Gold Cup will only take weeks off his summer vacation every two years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegan Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 Hoilett in my opinion is waiting to see if he could get an England national team call up, he is waiting until he is eligible for UK citizenship. Then and only then will he make his decision. To be honest if he isn’t good enough for England I wouldn’t be surprised to see him not play international football all together. There is no money to be made in Europe playing for Canada or Jamaica. Playing and performing for a European nation can get you transferred to bigger clubs and larger salaries, playing in the Gold Cup will only take weeks off his summer vacation every two years. Well the idea is to clearly play in the World Cup for Canada, at which point it won't matter what national team you play for if you impress at that level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villus Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 The government of Canada doesn’t speed up the citizenship process for an athlete. Take the case of former Toronto Raptors player Matt Bonner, he lived in Toronto for two years, married a Canadian girl and in interviews has stated he would like to settle in Canada at the end of his career. In 2009 Bonner applied for his citizenship in order to play for Canada, it is 2011 and he has not received it. He is currently married to a Canadian it should be a slam dunk but it isn’t for Bonner. Why should it be so easy for someone who renounced their citizenship to regain it? Being married to a Canadian is no where near a slam dunk, Canadian immigration law does not just grant citizenship for someone married to a Canadian. So Bonner's case would'nt be the same as JDG2, Bonner does'nt live in Canada anymore from what I know and does'nt work here either. I don't know the full ins and outs of gaining citizenship but just becasue Bonner did'nt get it does'nt mean it would be the same scenario for someone else, all I'm saying is we can't be 100% sure and if JDG2 is eligible to regain his citizenship I would imagine its possible to make a few phone calls and have the process sped up. If you get the right politicians ear things like this are possible and Hart strikes me as the type of guy willing to work at something like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThiKu Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 If and as he continues to impress for Blackburn it doesn't matter what nation he plays for - ie, African players leaving every 2 years for the month of January! Same for the Asian nations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villus Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 •where the person has lived in the Netherlands, Aruba, Curaçao, or Sint Maarten for an uninterrupted period of 5 years or longer before age 18 It seems like JDG2 would be eligible to keep his Canadian Citizenship under this exemption. His wiki page said he joined the Feyernoord academy at 12 which would be roughly 1999 and he turned 18 in 2005. Obviously this is all conjecture at this point, and would be moot if he renounced. Even if he has renounced, if he decided to play for us or even keep the option open and things could'nt be sped up we still could have him in 2 years and could be on our way to the world cup! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 Hoilett in my opinion is waiting to see if he could get an England national team call up, he is waiting until he is eligible for UK citizenship. Then and only then will he make his decision. To be honest if he isn’t good enough for England I wouldn’t be surprised to see him not play international football all together. There is no money to be made in Europe playing for Canada or Jamaica. Playing and performing for a European nation can get you transferred to bigger clubs and larger salaries, playing in the Gold Cup will only take weeks off his summer vacation every two years. Like JdG previously, Hoilett should take a lay of the land. England has a lot of fast young wingers to choose from. It is actually becoming a strength. And, not only in the form of a Walcott, Wright-Phillips or the Tottenhamclown (Lennon). I don't think Hoilett is that outstanding in relative terms to command a regular spot with England. However, the EU passport is an advantage in and of itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Brethers Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 The EU passport is less of a big deal in England. There are no stipulations on non EU players, as long as they get a work permit it's all good. The one thing about Hoilett playing for England is that he has to have been schooled in England for 5 years to represent them. He moved at 12/13 so he may not have been in school for 5 years. Fingers crossed he didn't do a levels! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler453 Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 I know wikipedia isn't really a great source but interesting bit from it under International Career for Hoilett. "In September of 2011, he expressed his desire to play for Canada. However his father wishes he would play for Nicaragua." Nicaragua? wtf? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertuzzi44 Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 I know wikipedia isn't really a great source but interesting bit from it under International Career for Hoilett. "In September of 2011, he expressed his desire to play for Canada. However his father wishes he would play for Nicaragua." Nicaragua? wtf? It was Jamaica last time I saw that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler453 Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 It was Jamaica last time I saw that... Someone must have screwed around with it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Brethers Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 There was something in a paper today about Blackkburn wanting him to have a £18m release clause in his contract but he wants it at 15. FFS meet them halfway, sign the contract and play in the next round of Qualy matches!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegan Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 There was something in a paper today about Blackkburn wanting him to have a £18m release clause in his contract but he wants it at 15. FFS meet them halfway, sign the contract and play in the next round of Qualy matches!! They're also working out how much he gets after his first England cap... *ducks* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EDM Rover Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 Like JdG previously, Hoilett should take a lay of the land. England has a lot of fast young wingers to choose from. It is actually becoming a strength. And, not only in the form of a Walcott, Wright-Phillips or the Tottenhamclown (Lennon). I don't think Hoilett is that outstanding in relative terms to command a regular spot with England. However, the EU passport is an advantage in and of itself. Like others here have alluded to, I think his advisors (i.e., his father) are trying to steer him to the "very top" - Dave Sr. has been a ballbuster in every contract negotiation w/ Rovers. I'm sure Jr.'s next club will be bigger than Rovers (thus the size of that buyout clause is important to the club b/c most can see he's destined to move on). I don't think his camp will let him go near our national side, esp. when he hasn't reached his full potential yet (and England is still be a possibiliy). I just hope the Three Lions don't come sniffing 'round a player who's about as English as maple syrup. The English fancy themselves above capping players from other nations (i.e. Almunia, Arteta, etc.), but they seem to make an acception for Canadians Again this season, Hoilett is showing good form for a weak Rovers side. He's far from a complete player at present: his crossing and shooting aren't top level and he is developing a reputation for not tracking back to defend. That said, he can be magic on the attack. Rovers have really built their offence around him (to an all-to predictable extent). For what it's worth, I'd already rate him above Lennon and Wright-Phillips and I wouldn't bet against him reaching/surpassing Walcott either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianSoccerFan Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 It looks like Redknapp will replace Capello and I'm sure an englishman will be more averse to capping him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redcoatsforever Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 Does anybody ever just stop in the middle of this discussions and just get really, really depressed that they even have to take place? Man, I wish Hoilett would just settle his sh*t in Blackburn and pull on a Maple Leaf... the longer he goes without doing it the less I expect him to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bully Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 I don't know if anyone here lives in England, but, we should send them to a rovers game and at the end, hand Junior a Canadian flag. See what he does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThiKu Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 Redcoats...."YES", to your question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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