Keegan Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 evidence suggests that countries with loads of talent (ie Europe) still pick players from the rest of the world (Non-Europe) whenever they please. If DeGuz wants to work on getting a passport in Canada - he can do that. I really think something could be done. But the question that matters is how many players have the Dutch plucked from other countries? Seriously, I looked it up I can't find the answer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackdude Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 But the question that matters is how many players have the Dutch plucked from other countries? Seriously, I looked it up I can't find the answer Aside from the Suriname boys, not many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegan Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Aside from the Suriname boys, not many. See even the Suriname boys would kind of be like a ********** situation where the language is the same Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 (edited) But the question that matters is how many players have the Dutch plucked from other countries? Seriously, I looked it up I can't find the answer Edgar Davids and Clarence Seedorf are two that immediately come to mind. Both i believe are from carribean islands that belong to the netherlands. Those are two pretty big ones. Edit.: confirmed, both are from surinam Edit #2: Found another one, Aron Winter. Also from Surinam. I always thought that many of the Dutch stars were in fact not born in Holland. Edited September 22, 2011 by Free kick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redcoatsforever Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 See even the Suriname boys would kind of be like a ********** situation where the language is the same It's not the same in many situations though, Suriname was still a colony of Holland when a fair number of those players were born, so it would be more like a Guadeloupe or Martinique situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yomurphy1 Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 ^ Also most of the Dutch-Surinamese players grew up in the Netherlands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Edgar Davids and Clarence Seedorf are two that immediately come to mind. Both i believe are from carribean islands that belong to the netherlands. Those are two pretty big ones. Edit.: confirmed, both are from surinam Edit #2: Found another one, Aron Winter. Also from Surinam. I always thought that many of the Dutch stars were in fact not born in Holland. Just for the record and because some kids could read this and fail a geography class, Suriname isn't an island. It's situated in the north of South America. It seems like Suriname could've had a top CONCACAF team in the 90's with Davids, Seedorf, Winter and Hasselbaink born in Paramaribo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Just for the record and because some kids could read this and fail a geography class, Suriname isn't an island. It's situated in the north of South America. It seems like Suriname could've had a top CONCACAF team in the 90's with Davids, Seedorf, Winter and Hasselbaink born in Paramaribo. Yes, i noticed this afterwards. Thought about editing my post. On the same note, its also ambiguous to state that most of the surinam dutch players grew up in the Netherlands. The netherlands, i believe, is the all encompassing name for all the provinces and territories that includes Holland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bates Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 I think your example is a very good one and illustrates exactly the problem young Canadians face and will face for some time. Try very hard to make Country you are eligible to play for who are good soccer Nations or go with pride only and play for Country where soccer really doesn't matter. And while many here claim it is an easy choice it is a very difficult one which I am not sure which way I would go on?? The Dutch clearly just don't care for him and I don't blame them. As a I said previously to them he's a FOREIGNER (Jonathan should know this from the bullying he had to put up with as a youth at Feyenoord)... just wanna say here, if I was a canuck who moved to Holland and I was bullied for being a canuck at football I wouldn't be like "I want to play for Oranje!!", I think most people would be like "$*@# you, ya I am a Canuck" and I'd lead my damn country and show them we CAN play football. Imagine a dutch hockey player coming here when he was 12 to play in the GTHL, at 16 he's playing in the OHL and is one of the best players in the CHL by his NHL draft year (he's also been ribbed along the way and made enemies simply by the fact he's "different", sure he can speak and understand english but he still has a dutch accent that other players pick on). By this time he's 18 and he's suddenly thinking "Hey, I'd like to play for Canada" (maybe an Austrian hockey player would be a better example here as they have a decent team but you get the point). When he's 19 Canada calls him up to their WJC team (he is after all one of the best junior players in the country) and he puts in some good performances. The WJC ends and he waits... (let's pretend there is no world championship and only "A" teams are called to IIHF games). It's 6 years down the road, he's playing first line right wing on a playoff bound team and it comes time for Canada Hockey to choose their Olympic team. Now Canada Hockey, just like the Dutch FA have an insane amount of talent to choose from... both have crashed out of tournaments in the past despite this fact. So what's the problem? Clearly the talent is there but the coaches of both teams need to choose a cohesive TEAM to win their respective tournaments... Now when it's a NATIONAL team, especially one with a NATIONAL LANGUAGE and HISTORY, you are going to have problems when someone threatens to change that (can you imagine a guy with a heavy German or Dutch accent playing on Team Canada ahead of one of our other 1000 crazy talented CANADIANS). Now, if this Dutch hockey player was someone who was going to the Hall of Fame and could actually be a KEY player sure we would consider him. But if he's going to be a fringe player... who in their right mind would &*%$ up their team? ^^ Jonathan De Guzman right there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sose Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 In the interview he did with the soccer show out of Vancouver last January he said he gave up his passport. From my understanding that is the same as giving up your citizenship. So in order to become a Canadian citizen he would have to reapply just as anyone else would. So the option of him returning to play for Canada is still alive... I think. http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/citizenship/renounce.asp From what I understand he had to renounce in order to get Dutch citizenship (to make it much easier to play in Europe). Im not sure if he can even apply for a Canadian Citizenship again without having to renounce his Dutch citizenship (I don't think Holland allows dual citizenship for immigrants). Maybe if he decides that he's good enough to play in Europe with a Canadian passport he will make the switch. From what I remember JDG had some problems in europe because he was a Canadian player (without a Euro passport). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul-collins Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Don't European football leagues have provisions for "internationals"? ie if he reaffirms his Canadian roots and then suits up for les rouges, doesn't that resolve the issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sose Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Don't European football leagues have provisions for "internationals"? ie if he reaffirms his Canadian roots and then suits up for les rouges, doesn't that resolve the issue? I think so.. but there are limited spots for "internationals". The fact that he has a Euro passport means that he can play anywhere without taking up one of the limited international spots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianSoccerFan Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 The Spanish league allows only 3 non-EU players per team. Although there's a lot of guys like JDG2 with passports through residency, ancestry, and even sham marriages Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeelaw Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Can we give up on this guy. Him giving away his passport is insulting enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler453 Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Can we give up on this guy. Him giving away his passport is insulting enough. I want to agree with you but if he made the decision to come back, how could we say no? He would immediately be the best player on our team (if Hoilett was there, that could be debated though), and would add so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegan Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 I want to agree with you but if he made the decision to come back, how could we say no? He would immediately be the best player on our team (if Hoilett was there, that could be debated though), and would add so much. Don't discount how good Atiba is just because he is actually a LOYAL player. I don't think many people realize what a gem we have in Atiba. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler453 Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Don't discount how good Atiba is just because he is actually a LOYAL player. I don't think many people realize what a gem we have in Atiba. I do agree that he is a good player but I do not think he is better than JDG2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sose Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 I do agree that he is a good player but I do not think he is better than JDG2. Atiba is a great loyal player.. he could have easily played for TT and gone to the world cup in 2006 (i was there supporting the soca warriors because cda didn't qualify)... but JDG2 is younger and has greater potential... Atiba and Simeon Jacksons (born in jamaica) are the type of guys we need and should cherish .. I just hope one day JDG can convince JDG2 that he is good enough to play in europe with a CDN passport and also play for CMNT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuzzAndSting Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 From what I understand he had to renounce in order to get Dutch citizenship (to make it much easier to play in Europe). Im not sure if he can even apply for a Canadian Citizenship again without having to renounce his Dutch citizenship (I don't think Holland allows dual citizenship for immigrants). Maybe if he decides that he's good enough to play in Europe with a Canadian passport he will make the switch. From what I remember JDG had some problems in europe because he was a Canadian player (without a Euro passport). You're right. He would have to give up his Dutch citizenship, they don't allow dual citizen hence why he gave up his Canadian citizenship in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazlo_80 Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 (edited) not sure where you heard they don't allow dual. I have a dutch and Canadian citizenship. However I got the dutch citizenship through my dad, which could be a different circumstance than immigrating there. Edited September 23, 2011 by lazlo_80 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuzzAndSting Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 not sure where you heard they don't allow dual. I have a dutch and Canadian citizenship. Really? I thought that was why he gave up his Canadian citizenship. Is it possible that this was a change in rules made in the last couple years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatest Cockney Rip Off Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Yeah I am not sure about citizenship but my sister holds a Dutch and Canadian passport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeMarc Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 He probably has both citizenships but he let his Canadian passport expire... I think it was this board that assumed he forfeited his canadian citizenship. I think it was just a passport issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tovan1 Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_nationality_law Dual citizenship Although Dutch law restricts dual citizenship, it is possible for Dutch subjects to legally hold dual citizenship in a number of circumstances, including: those who acquire another citizenship at the time of birth (for example, a child born to Dutch parents in the United States would hold both U.S. and Dutch citizenship). persons who acquire Dutch citizenship through the option procedure (including former Dutch citizens resuming citizenship) persons who become naturalised Dutch subjects, who obtain an exemption from the requirement to renounce their foreign citizenship, such as those married to Dutch subjects. Dutch subjects who naturalise in another country who are exempted from the loss of nationality rule (such as those married to a citizen/subject of that country). Anyways, hope that clears things up. Btw, thought this thread was about Junior, if we're going to discuss JDG2 maybe the thread title should be changed to reflect that. Just sayin... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finchster Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 not sure where you heard they don't allow dual. I have a dutch and Canadian citizenship. However I got the dutch citizenship through my dad, which could be a different circumstance than immigrating there. Correct, Dutch nationality follows a Jus sanguinis principal (right of blood). If you have dutch parent(s), you can acquire Dutch citizenship irrespective of where you were born (See Marcel De Jong). If you were born in Holland to non-dutch parents, you are not a citizen. Also if you become a naturalized citizen of Holland, you are required to renounce your other foreign citizenships except in certain circumstances, Exemptions to the requirement to renounce foreign citizenship An applicant for naturalisation does not have to give up his current nationality in the following cases •where the original nationality is automatically lost upon naturalisation as a Dutch subject •the legislation of the applicant's country does not allow renunciation of nationality •the person is married to or the registered partner of a Dutch national. •recognised refugees •born in the Netherlands, Aruba, Curaçao, or Sint Maarten, and still living there at the time of application. •where the person has lived in the Netherlands, Aruba, Curaçao, or Sint Maarten for an uninterrupted period of 5 years or longer before age 18. •where the applicant cannot be expected to contact the authorities in the country of which they are a national. •where the applicant has "special and objectively assessable reasons" for not renouncing his existing nationality. •where in order to give up his/her current nationality the applicant would have to fulfil military service obligations or pay for such military service instead of fulfilling it. This must be demonstrated in each case. •where renunciation of the applicant's existing nationality would cause "serious financial losses" (for example, inheritance rights). This must be demonstrated. •where in order to give up his/her current nationality the applicant must pay a large sum of money to the authorities in his or her country. I am not sure if JDG2 would apply to any one of these exceptions but I am not an expert in this field. I believe he did renounce his citizenship If JDG2 did renounce his citizenship, it is simply game over for Canada and him. Even though he was born here he would have no legal rights and be treated as a foreign national and can't represent Canada. In order to resume his Canadian Citizenship he would have to go through the immigration process like other immigrants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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