The Importance of Jr. Hoilett

[gator]

26 minutes ago, A_Gagne said:

At this point, anyone who's eligible, has no contraindications (extremely rare), and isn't vaccinated is a fucking idiot.

~88% of eligible Canadians (29M of 33M) have had at least 1 vaccine, and if you're in the 12% that hasn't, the rest of us are pretty fucking done with your bullshit.

That sums it up well for me, I'm done debating it, I have heard the same anti vax arguments over and over, I respect ones personal right to not be vaxxed but it ends there, those not on board aren't going to change their mind at this point and I am not going to change my mind because of what the minority choose to believe! Hoilett will be a loss for us, I'll leave it at that!

[TOCanada115]

I’m not jumping into this argument, and won’t be responding to responses, but who the fuck comes on here to argue politics about the vaccine when it’s all anyone talks about 24/7? Don’t you watch sports to get away from this shit? This isn’t the only player thread derailed by this crap. I don’t know if I’m in the minority, but as soon as I see this stuff, I just close my tab lol. 

[yomurphy1]

1 hour ago, A_Gagne said:

At this point, anyone who's eligible, has no contraindications (extremely rare), and isn't vaccinated is a fucking idiot.

~88% of eligible Canadians (29M of 33M) have had at least 1 vaccine, and if you're in the 12% that hasn't, the rest of us are pretty fucking done with your bullshit.

This is abusive language. 

I don't want to see this directed to our players or others on the forum.

If you're vaxxed fine. If you're not then you take on a risk for yourself. The consequences of that risk is hugely dependent on your age and health. 

If your first action is to go after a minority group with little political representation and no media support who are doing something that does not affect you then you should maybe give pause as to "how did we get here" rather than amplifying abuse. 

[SpursFlu]

I think its tough when people are insulting Jr based on some random journalist who has an anonymous source who based on an antidote from a locker room can sum up the thoughts of what seems like 200-300 grown ups. One of which seems to be our very own Junior Hoilett. This is how the media manipulates the story and controls your perspective.

People are not idiots and selfish because they have the courage to stand up for what they believe in. Stop being so arrogant my friends. Your not better and more intelligent then anyone because the talking head on tv tells you so. One minute athletes are heroes and role models but as soon as they say or do what you don't like, its... shut up and dribble. People should just look in the mirror and just worry about themselves. Your not perfect, your not better than anyone and stop acting like the masses are in agreement with you because they're not. Majority of people are just keeping their head down and just trying to go with the flow and stay out of trouble.

Leave Junior alone.. its his life, not yours

Edited October 3, 2021 by SpursFlu

[RS]

27 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

I think its tough when people are insulting Jr based on some random journalist who has an anonymous source who based on an antidote from a locker room can sum up the thoughts of what seems like 200-300 grown ups.

Which journalist is this?

I skipped over the rest of your post about people worrying about themselves because you're the person who boasted about bullying a friend of yours for wearing a mask.

[narduch]

This makes me wonder what FIFA's rules are if a team ends up with a major covid outbreak before a WCQ match?

There is a greater chance it would be a 3-0 forfeit loss than rescheduling at this point

An unvaxxed player increases the chances that this can occur

Edited October 3, 2021 by narduch

[dyslexic nam]

44 minutes ago, yomurphy1 said:

If you're not then you take on a risk for yourself. The consequences of that risk is hugely dependent on your age and health. 

I really don’t want to prolong this discussion, so I hesitate to wade in - but this statement is where most defenders of freedom get things blatantly wrong.  Want proof?  Ask the people in Alberta whose necessary surgeries are getting deferred because the intensive care units (and staff) are fully occupied dealing with COVID cases that are occurring at a much higher rate among the unvaccinated.  By refusing to get a basic and simple vaccination, people are not simply taking on a risk themselves.  They are making a choice that, when viewed collectively, absolutely had a negative impact on others.  That is why this group tends to receive criticism   If their choice actually did only impact themselves, lots of people would be perfectly content to let natural selection run its course.  But in a society with socialized medicine, it does not

Does this impact justify the measures being taken?  People can (and obviously do) have very different opinions on that question.  But make no mistake - the choice to not get vaccinated is not simply an issue of isolated personal risk.  

[Obinna]

15 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

I really don’t want to prolong this discussion, so I hesitate to wade in - but this statement is where most defenders of freedom get things blatantly wrong.  Want proof?  Ask the people in Alberta whose necessary surgeries are getting deferred because the intensive care units (and staff) are fully occupied dealing with COVID cases that are occurring at a much higher rate among the unvaccinated.  By refusing to get a basic and simple vaccination, people are not simply taking on a risk themselves.  They are making a choice that, when viewed collectively, absolutely had a negative impact on others.  That is why this group tends to receive criticism   If their choice actually did only impact themselves, lots of people would be perfectly content to let natural selection run its course.  But in a society with socialized medicine, it does not

Does this impact justify the measures being taken?  People can (and obviously do) have very different opinions on that question.  But make no mistake - the choice to not get vaccinated is not simply an issue of isolated personal risk.  

My perspective (fwiw) is that person A who hasn't gotten vaccinated and hasn't gotten sick and hasn't been admitted to the hospital is not causing the hospital to fail. The reason is obvious, even if you don't like it or disagree with it.

Sure, that individual may become the problem one day down the road, since they may unecessarily (in the view of many) contribute to the problem of a failing medical system when they are admitted, but if that day doesn't come to pass there is no harm and no foul towards person A.

You can say the attitude of person A is dangerous, toxic and responsible for perpetuating the crisis and I would understand that point of view, it's certainly valid because it is how you feel. There is merit to it.

But you (we) must acknowledge that another valid point of view is that I am responsible for my actions only, and you are responsible for yours, know what I mean?

Again, don't need to agree, feel free to critize, but consider also acknowledging without judgement (more to the group and not to you, even though I am quoting you - you are one of the more reasonble posters on this topic in my view)?

As I write this I am also trying to practice what I preach and acknowledge your view without judgement, because you deserve that, everyone does.

Can you criticize someone for something they didn't do? Yes.

Is it helpful to criticize in this way without being constructive? No. 

I believe the majority of these people who are on the fence support all other types of vaccines, they just have a problem with the technology of these vaccines in particular. That's what I see.

The problem I see is that saying they are "safe and effective" without real scientific debate is not helping matters. There are real experts who are countering the narrative and if you don't allow discorse to play out how are you going to convince those on the fence? In my opinion it just drives people who are undecided further away, especially when those who are trying to pursuade lack empathy in their approach.

But alas, such debates will rage on from now until the end of time, because at the heart they are about collectivism versus individualism. It's a tale as old as time.

You are not wrong and I am not right, or vice versa. 

Vaxxed or not, the solution (in my humble opinion) is to respect each other and have a loving heart, because history shows what we do to each other when we fail to do that.

Cheers

[Floortom]

The Junior Hoilett not being vaccinated and leading him to missing the Mexico match is definitely on-topic - the direction this thread is now going in is totally off topic. 

[seanwae]

Do Canadian players receive an exemption to enter Canada quarantine free when they’re unvaxxed? Wasn’t there a complaint by Honduras or El Salvador that some players weren’t vaccinated and couldn’t enter?

I don’t see how Junior could play the Panama game (or the other aforementioned games) without being vaccinated.

In fact the articles I’ve seen state Premier League players can skip the 10 hotel stay for FIFA qualifiers if they are vaccinated. However Junior isn’t a premier league player any more. Does that rule apply to all Football League players or just Premier League?

Maybe his absence in Mexico has nothing to do with his vaccination status.

[yomurphy1]

1 hour ago, dyslexic nam said:

I really don’t want to prolong this discussion, so I hesitate to wade in - but this statement is where most defenders of freedom get things blatantly wrong.  Want proof?  Ask the people in Alberta whose necessary surgeries are getting deferred because the intensive care units (and staff) are fully occupied dealing with COVID cases that are occurring at a much higher rate among the unvaccinated.  By refusing to get a basic and simple vaccination, people are not simply taking on a risk themselves.  They are making a choice that, when viewed collectively, absolutely had a negative impact on others.  That is why this group tends to receive criticism   If their choice actually did only impact themselves, lots of people would be perfectly content to let natural selection run its course.  But in a society with socialized medicine, it does not

Does this impact justify the measures being taken?  People can (and obviously do) have very different opinions on that question.  But make no mistake - the choice to not get vaccinated is not simply an issue of isolated personal risk.  

They don't receive criticism, they receive abuse. That's my fucking problem here and I get pretty pissy when I see people getting dehumanized. 

Not everyone has the same level of vitriol but it's always nice to think if one group of people didn't exist everything would be fine.  It's often effective politics and will remain so until the end of time. 

Junior is 31 years old and fitter than 99.999% of the human population. If the man ends up in the ICU its going be because of a car crash and not COVID. In his case, getting a vaccine is trading a small amount of risk for a small but slightly larger risk. Even though he's making a technical miscalculation with such smaller numbers it really doesn't matter in his case. 

I have no insight into what is or isn't going through Junior's head but I'm not going stand by and let people abuse him. 

 

 

 

[narduch]

32 minutes ago, yomurphy1 said:

 

Junior is 31 years old and fitter than 99.999% of the human population. If the man ends up in the ICU its going be because of a car crash and not COVID. In his case, getting a vaccine is trading a small amount of risk for a small but slightly larger risk. Even though he's making a technical miscalculation with such smaller numbers it really doesn't matter in his case. 

 

 

 

This is basically another anti vaxxer bs talking point. It is so wrong.

 

 

[dyslexic nam]

20 minutes ago, narduch said:

This is basically another anti vaxxer bs talking point. It is so wrong.

 

 

It also doesn’t factor in the fact that those healthy carriers still are more likely to spread to others who may be less healthy and therefore would be more likely to have serious complications.  

Anyway, no one ever convinces anyone on this topic so I am out.   Just wanted to clear up the misinformation.  

Edited October 3, 2021 by dyslexic nam

[Cheeta]

Shrug.  Don't care why so-and-so doesn't get vaxxed.   Couldn't give a fu'k.  

But if the result of that discussion is they will disqualify themselves from participating in not an insignificant number of WCQers, because that's the current reality, they can't commit to Canada. 

It boils down to being that simple.

 

 

[yomurphy1]

42 minutes ago, narduch said:

This is basically another anti vaxxer bs talking point. It is so wrong.

 

 

Out of a population of what? 

I literally said that I think Junior has made a risk miscalculation but one that unlikely to be costly to him. If he's unlucky its his career that's going to suffer. 

So he doesn't get a vaccine? Let's abuse him till he changes his mind? Let's threaten to rip away his livelihood? Let's hurt him worse than COVID is likely to do? 

Like fuck... you can be correct or making better decisions than others but if your reaction is to demean and hurt (not necessarily you but others in the thread) than you should probably step back and say I think Junior's making a bad decision and make peace that you shouldn't and can't control other people. 

If you care deeply about people getting vaccinated (which is reasonable) because its a net benefit to said people than you should be damn careful about hurting people as a byproduct of trying to help.  

Junior made his decision, it sucks as a CANMNT fan, and he misses out on game that's important to him. 

After a bit of frustration early in his career man has brought this forum so much joy. He deserves a base level of respect even if you don't agree with him. 

Edited October 3, 2021 by yomurphy1
I can't spell good.

[narduch]

15 minutes ago, yomurphy1 said:

Out of a population of what? 

I literally said that I think Junior has made a risk miscalculation but one that unlikely to be costly to him. If he's unlucky its his career that's going to suffer. 

So he doesn't get a vaccine? Let's abuse him till he changes his mind? Let's threaten to rip away his livelihood? Let's hurt him worse than COVID is likely to do? 

Like fuck... you can be correct or making better decisions than others but if your reaction is to demean and hurt (not necessarily you but others in the thread) than you should probably step back and say I think Junior's making a bad decision and make peace that you shouldn't and can't control other people. 

If you care deeply about people getting vaccinated (which is reasonable) because its a net benefit to said people than you should be damn careful about hurting people as a byproduct of trying to help.  

Junior made his decision, it sucks as a CANMNT fan, and he misses out on game that's important to him. 

After a bit of frustration early in his career man has brought this forum so much joy. He deserves a base level of respect even if you don't agree with him. 

You brought up the argument about covid not being dangerous to athletes because they are fitter. That is a fallacy.

As I mentioned earlier as well, an unvaccinated player also increases the risk of the entire team having a covid outbreak. 

Imagine the meltdown on this forum if we have to forfeit matches 

[narduch]

1 hour ago, seanwae said:

Do Canadian players receive an exemption to enter Canada quarantine free when they’re unvaxxed? Wasn’t there a complaint by Honduras or El Salvador that some players weren’t vaccinated and couldn’t enter?

I don’t see how Junior could play the Panama game (or the other aforementioned games) without being vaccinated.

In fact the articles I’ve seen state Premier League players can skip the 10 hotel stay for FIFA qualifiers if they are vaccinated. However Junior isn’t a premier league player any more. Does that rule apply to all Football League players or just Premier League?

Maybe his absence in Mexico has nothing to do with his vaccination status.

My guess is Canadian citizens have an easier time getting this sort of exemption. 

Also perhaps the CSA is better at navigating this type of red tape.

[SoccMan]

1 minute ago, narduch said:

You brought up the argument about covid not being dangerous to athletes because they are fitter. That is a fallacy.

As I mentioned earlier as well, an unvaccinated player also increases the risk of the entire team having a covid outbreak. 

Imagine the meltdown on this forum if we have to forfeit matches 

Yup just imagine if we have to forfeit , because of players or a player not vaccinated and spreading this.

[RS]

24 minutes ago, yomurphy1 said:

So he doesn't get a vaccine? Let's abuse him till he changes his mind? Let's threaten to rip away his livelihood? Let's hurt him worse than COVID is likely to do? 

Is any of that actually happening in this thread? 

[BuzzAndSting]

4 hours ago, SpursFlu said:

I think its tough when people are insulting Jr based on some random journalist who has an anonymous source who based on an antidote from a locker room can sum up the thoughts of what seems like 200-300 grown ups. One of which seems to be our very own Junior Hoilett. This is how the media manipulates the story and controls your perspective.

People are not idiots and selfish because they have the courage to stand up for what they believe in. Stop being so arrogant my friends. Your not better and more intelligent then anyone because the talking head on tv tells you so. One minute athletes are heroes and role models but as soon as they say or do what you don't like, its... shut up and dribble. People should just look in the mirror and just worry about themselves. Your not perfect, your not better than anyone and stop acting like the masses are in agreement with you because they're not. Majority of people are just keeping their head down and just trying to go with the flow and stay out of trouble.

Leave Junior alone.. its his life, not yours

Oh the irony considering the insults you’ve thrown around directed at those you don’t agree with.

[king1010]

28 minutes ago, yomurphy1 said:

Out of a population of what? 

I literally said that I think Junior has made a risk miscalculation but one that unlikely to be costly to him. If he's unlucky its his career that's going to suffer. 

So he doesn't get a vaccine? Let's abuse him till he changes his mind? Let's threaten to rip away his livelihood? Let's hurt him worse than COVID is likely to do? 

Like fuck... you can be correct or making better decisions than others but if your reaction is to demean and hurt (not necessarily you but others in the thread) than you should probably step back and say I think Junior's making a bad decision and make peace that you shouldn't and can't control other people. 

If you care deeply about people getting vaccinated (which is reasonable) because its a net benefit to said people than you should be damn careful about hurting people as a byproduct of trying to help.  

Junior made his decision, it sucks as a CANMNT fan, and he misses out on game that's important to him. 

After a bit of frustration early in his career man has brought this forum so much joy. He deserves a base level of respect even if you don't agree with him. 

Where is that happening on this forum? 

[RS]

1 minute ago, king1010 said:

Where is that happening on this forum? 

It's not. People love to argue against made-up grievances.

[frmr]

Oh look, people are still arguing about covid. Gee that’s interesting. If I was a mod I would ban the shit out of all you bickering Karens.

[kacbru]

14 minutes ago, frmr said:

Oh look, people are still arguing about covid. Gee that’s interesting. If I was a mod I would ban the shit out of all you bickering Karens.

No, it is not arguing about covid.  It is about a player making themselves ineligible to play in an important WCQ game.

[frmr]

4 minutes ago, kacbru said:

No, it is not arguing about covid.  It is about a player making themselves ineligible to play in an important WCQ game.

Fascinating.