Thank you Panama!

[Guest Ed]

I only watched two games, and honestly, I agree with Robert, but then again, the Voyageurs have always been pro-CSA, so nobody has the balls to critique the CSA or keep writing letter to the Government of Canada to reform the CSA. Honestly, tieing Panama of all countries is shameful. They're a baseball loving country for god's sake and squeaking by Guadelope..man, doesn't bring me confidence for the WCQ. Man..glad at least that the Whitecaps are providing great entertainment, cuz the Men's National team will take forever to provide quality on the pitch, as well as getting more W's to qualify. I'll refrain from posting anti-CSA verbatim, as Robert seems to have ruffled many feathers like usual.

So the US MNT, to the man, should do the honourable thing and commit mass sepuku?? Do you follow CONCACAF?

[gator]

I personally agree with SOME of the points Robert makes but to say we're too complacent as a group is missing the mark! There aren't a whole lot of CSA apologists on here, although there may be a few! Robert, do you forget the "Sack the CSA" black t-shirt campaign that many individuals worked so hard at for the Costa Rica match at BMO? Just read the thread about the Stephen Hart Report Card and you will see many on here are angry as well! We all have our own ways to express it and are all entitled to our own opinions!

[Danny Boy]

So the US MNT, to the man, should do the honourable thing and commit mass sepuku?? Do you follow CONCACAF?

While I don't follow the USMNT I'm sure there was some serious dissapointment in their camp following that loss. At their level the USMNT has the expectation of beating everyone in CONACAF including Mexico. The problem is that we shouldn't be having must win games in the first round of the Gold Cup.

[amacpher]

And what would make you think that the women's team will flop this summer?

As far as major sports tournaments go, Canada just seems to be doing worse than expected in everything besides men's hockey lately. With men's soccer this has been going on for 12 years of course, but recently it seems to have spread to others (see WWC 2007, FIBA 2010, baseball WC).

Just a coincidence maybe, but I can understand the pessimism.

[gator]

As far as major sports tournaments go, Canada just seems to be doing worse than expected in everything besides men's hockey lately. With men's soccer this has been going on for 12 years of course, but recently it seems to have spread to others (see WWC 2007, FIBA 2010).

Just a coincidence maybe, but I can understand the pessimism.

We rule Men"s Curling too!

[nolbertos]

So the US MNT, to the man, should do the honourable thing and commit mass sepuku?? Do you follow CONCACAF?

I followed CONCACAF as long as I could remember, Ed. Remember that I followed South American futbol way before that, and seen both federations futbol rise over the years, and I still consider Central America, piss poor as futbol technique, skills, and league, with the exception of Mexico, but here in Canada, we tremble everytime we visit the hostile cities of Central America. You know my allegiance to Canada, Ed, I'm very passionate about Canada, but, the same losing record keeps playing over and over and over, ever since I joined this forum in 2000. The only thing that's fixed is the CSA board members and the Men's failure to qualify for the World Cup. I have hope for qualification, but that won't be for another 10 to 15 years, since that's how long the Whitecaps, TFC and Montreal will produce quality Canadian talent that will have played first team minutes on an MLS squad at minimum. And to answer your questions about the US..if you've been to Bigsoccer.com..they're ashamed and asking for Bob Bradley's head, cuz the US on paper is expected to beat Panama resoundly. I envy the Americans, but we have along way to go to get to the top tier in CONCACAF and I'm hoping to see us at least make all future Gold Cup Semifinals as a minimum bar for Canadian Soccer, cuz that's were we should be, not knocked out in the round stages.

[JamboAl]

Oh God please, now I'm foaming at the mouth. I admit that when it comes to things like Canada and soccer, things that I'm very passionate about, I could probably do with a bit of self-restraint of the mouth to get my point across. Unfortunately, I continue to struggle with this. I just find that Canada getting knocked out of any international tournament by the likes of Panama, and this is with no disrespect intended towards Panama, is totally f-cking unacceptable. Is such a result acceptable to any one on this board? What's even more disturbing is the fact that for years now the CSA continues to remain silent on these unacceptable situations and everybody here just passively grumbles a little bit out of Canadian politeness and then carry on with life as if nothing ever happened. The only passion they ever exhibit is their anger and insults towards me for expressing my feelings. How low do we have to go? Right now every CONCACAF country is ecstatic when they are drawn into a group with Canada, because now they only have to beat one other country to advance. How does that make you feel? The insanity of it all is that we continue to do the same thing year after year, while expecting a different outcome. The only thing more insane than this is some simpleton questioning my loyalty?

You are entitled to your opinion, no one is questioning that. And yeah, you are right, drawing Canada may be seen as a free pass for the likes of Honduras and Costa Rica. And yes, it does suck if that is the way it is seen. And yes, I have often felt anger/disdain towards the CSA because we can be much better; it's part of being a Voyageur.

To be rational for a minute here though, realize that unlike any country we compete against in CONCACAF, except for the US and some of the cricket playing Caribbean nations, we are fighting to get funding against other "bigger" sports whether that be public or sponsorship money. And then there are those prized people who have great ideas, passion and in depth knowledge of the game who would have to be lured to work for the CSA. So if the CSA goes to someone with those skill sets and says, "okay, we'd like for you to work for us to help the men's team win/qualify for A, B and C and by the way, you'd have to take a 50% pay cut from your last job", how many would do it? And that's not just coaches but administrators, marketing people, etc. How much you want to bet that Ricardo la Volpe or Julio Dely Valdes makes way more than Stephen Hart (or anyone who could be the CMNT manager)? And how much you want to bet that the CSA ploughs way more of their operating budget as a percentage of total funds into the women's team than any other CONCACAF country?

So if you were to make an argument that was constructive; for example, let's make the men's team much better by hiring a world class manager and ploughing 90% of all the CSA's money into it; BUT at the same time, the rest of the other programs can die a quick death all for this pursuit (including the women's NT), then you may have more people on your side or at least it would be a compelling discussion. I'm not saying I'd support it, but that's what the CSA would have to do under its current financial situation.

So if you want to blame anyone/anything for the men's national team situation, take it out on everyone who doesn't support Canadian soccer in this country. Cause that's the only thing that is going to change things in the long term! OK, rant over...back to work for me.

[gator]

You are entitled to your opinion, no one is questioning that. And yeah, you are right, drawing Canada may be seen as a free pass for the likes of Honduras and Costa Rica. And yes, it does suck if that is the way it is seen. And yes, I have often felt anger/disdain towards the CSA because we can be much better; it's part of being a Voyageur.

To be rational for a minute here though, realize that unlike any country we compete against in CONCACAF, except for the US and some of the cricket playing Caribbean nations, we are fighting to get funding against other "bigger" sports whether that be public or sponsorship money. And then there are those prized people who have great ideas, passion and in depth knowledge of the game who would have to be lured to work for the CSA. So if the CSA goes to someone with those skill sets and says, "okay, we'd like for you to work for us to help the men's team win/qualify for A, B and C and by the way, you'd have to take a 50% pay cut from your last job", how many would do it? And that's not just coaches but administrators, marketing people, etc. How much you want to bet that Ricardo la Volpe or Julio Dely Valdes makes way more than Stephen Hart (or anyone who could be the CMNT manager)? And how much you want to bet that the CSA ploughs way more of their operating budget as a percentage of total funds into the women's team than any other CONCACAF country?

So if you were to make an argument that was constructive; for example, let's make the men's team much better by hiring a world class manager and ploughing 90% of all the CSA's money into it; BUT at the same time, the rest of the other programs can die a quick death all for this pursuit (including the women's NT), then you may have more people on your side or at least it would be a compelling discussion. I'm not saying I'd support it, but that's what the CSA would have to do under its current financial situation.

So if you want to blame anyone/anything for the men's national team situation, take it out on everyone who doesn't support Canadian soccer in this country. Cause that's the only thing that is going to change things in the long term! OK, rant over...back to work for me.

Well said Jambo!

[Robert]

I'm sure that every supporter, player and administrator in Canada is dissapointed, frustrated, pissed off and most of all embarrassed at how poorly we've done internationally. If we could only pool all those emotions into our programs we would not find ourselves in this pathetic predicament. I do not believe that Coach Hart is the crux of our problem. If we look back from from the Lenarduzzi era on through the Millers, the Yallops, the Mitchells and the half-dozen or so other head coaches we've been through since the 1986 World Cup, the song remains the same (with the exception of the of the 2000 Gold Cup.). Dissapointment, frustration, anger and embarrassment. We complain, the coach gets sacked, we go a long periods without a coach, we go years without any home internationals, the CSA appoints the cheapest interm head coach they can find and then just before the next World Cup they hire the best of whats left that they can afford. Great program right? It would not matter if we had the best coach in the world or Coach Hart with such a program. It was not Coach Hart's fault that we just had one game to prepare. Who is responsible for hiring Coach Hart or any of the other coaches we've had in the past? If the lack of money is what is preventing us from doing better, than who is responsible for not getting that money? Coach Hart or as you suggest the lack of support the game gets in this country? Hardly. The product the CSA puts out is crap and only us diehards and the supporters of the teams that we play against are willing to pay to watch these games. How many of those on the CSA payroll are former national team players? These are the people who have gone through the battles, who know what it's going to be like in Central America. Why not benefit from their experience, instead of having them go through the wringer until just weeks before a World Cup tournament before they know where they stand. This has been publically going on since the days of Charmaine Hooper. The CSA treats our coaches and national team players like crap. Why? If Nutrilite/Amway is the greatest source of money the CSA can score outside of taking a cut from every member's registration fee than it is Mont Pete who should get sacked and not Coach Hart for a decision to use or not use one of our goalkeepers for the one and only practice match he was given.

[Robert]

Sadly, I was right again with point #1. After following the game for 45 years, I am able to recognize crap when I see it. The CSA's storyline remains the same: Three and out. It happened at the Gold Cup, the u17 World Cup and now at the Women's World Cup. In the first instance the CSA continues to rely on that proven formula of guaranteed failure, which is bringing the Europeans over, having one practice match and then pray for the best. Obviously, that doesn't work. At the u17 World Cup you could tell right away in the match against Uruguay that we do have some talent, but what was even more blantantly obvious was the fact that they had not played together as a team. The Women's World Cup was a complete joke. How much of this year's budget was spent on housing the girls in Italy? We have been blessed with one truly gifted player, but the rest of the team is sub-adequate. I can't wait for Popsicle Day in Canada next week Saturday on CBC, when we get to watch two Women's quarter-final matches that don't feature Canada. Again, talk about a joke. Every one was talking about vying for a medal. Who cares about medals? If your in the top three or four you shoot for the championship. So who is responsible for our three failures this past month? Did we have three lousy coaches? Were there three bad refereeing decision's that went against us? Were there not enough Canadian supporter to root on our teams? Are the players to blame? Or is it Mont Pete and the CSA? The only excuse they can come up with is that they don't have enough money to pay the players and coaches. They don't have enough money to arrange 6 or 8 senior men's internationals in Canada each year. If Mont Pete can't come up with a measly $40 or $50 million dollars a year then he should be fired immediately!

Oh what a beautiful morning. Well the CSA has done it again. They have managed to let us sink to a deeper depth. How do they do it? For the past twelve years we have been unable to make it to the final 6 in CONCACAF World Cup qualifying and now we are no longer in the top 8 of CONCACAF. Who should should the responsibility this time?

1) Was it a referee's decision?

2) Was it our players?

3) Was it our coach?

4) Was it our great preparation?

5) Was it the climate?

6) Or was it Robert?

How many times have we used those same old excuses in the past? Is it not in the slightest way possible that we have never had competent leadership and vision from the CSA? This new low we have reached should serve as the turning point for the direction that Canadian soccer has been headed towards since 1986. I'm sure many of you will crucify my point of view and take it in all sorts of different directions away from the truth to defend our incompetent leaders. For those the reality of the situation will hit after the following tsunami:

1) The senior women's team will bow out of the World Cup in Germany in the first round. Soon after, Christine Sinclair will retire and the women's program will sink to the depths as the men.

2) Next year Canada's men will get knocked out of the CONCACAF World Cup semi-final qualifying round. Any one that thinks different is delusional.

3) Countless Canadian talent will continue to choose to play for other countries.

Mont Pete is like a sick junkie, who needs to hit rock-bottom before he has a chance to recover, all at the expense of Canadian soccer. Sadly, I thought that things could not get worse than the Kevan Pipe era, which shows you that I can be wrong once in a while. The biggest difference being that I can admit when I'm wrong. When has any one at the CSA ever made a public admission of having been wrong?

[JamboAl]

They don't have enough money to arrange 6 or 8 senior men's internationals in Canada each year. If Mont Pete can't come up with a measly $40 or $50 million dollars a year then he should be fired immediately!

Right...6-8 internationals in Canada a year. Name me one country that gets to play 6-8 men's internationals a year, period! We don't have qualifiers for a European championship to rely on either. And frankly if we had the money, I'd rather play matches in Europe where most of our players are than have them fly back to Canada. And I'll ignore the rest of the comments cause they are so off the mark it's not even noteworthy.

[kj52]

I'm sure that every supporter, player and administrator in Canada is dissapointed, frustrated, pissed off and most of all embarrassed at how poorly we've done internationally. If we could only pool all those emotions into our programs we would not find ourselves in this pathetic predicament. I do not believe that Coach Hart is the crux of our problem. If we look back from from the Lenarduzzi era on through the Millers, the Yallops, the Mitchells and the half-dozen or so other head coaches we've been through since the 1986 World Cup, the song remains the same (with the exception of the of the 2000 Gold Cup.). Dissapointment, frustration, anger and embarrassment. We complain, the coach gets sacked, we go a long periods without a coach, we go years without any home internationals, the CSA appoints the cheapest interm head coach they can find and then just before the next World Cup they hire the best of whats left that they can afford. Great program right? It would not matter if we had the best coach in the world or Coach Hart with such a program. It was not Coach Hart's fault that we just had one game to prepare. Who is responsible for hiring Coach Hart or any of the other coaches we've had in the past? If the lack of money is what is preventing us from doing better, than who is responsible for not getting that money? Coach Hart or as you suggest the lack of support the game gets in this country? Hardly. The product the CSA puts out is crap and only us diehards and the supporters of the teams that we play against are willing to pay to watch these games. How many of those on the CSA payroll are former national team players? These are the people who have gone through the battles, who know what it's going to be like in Central America. Why not benefit from their experience, instead of having them go through the wringer until just weeks before a World Cup tournament before they know where they stand. This has been publically going on since the days of Charmaine Hooper. The CSA treats our coaches and national team players like crap. Why? If Nutrilite/Amway is the greatest source of money the CSA can score outside of taking a cut from every member's registration fee than it is Mont Pete who should get sacked and not Coach Hart for a decision to use or not use one of our goalkeepers for the one and only practice match he was given.

I can't find anything to argue about with this. The reason we have to put up with this is pretty simple. There isn't any soccer culture in Canada and until there's enough people to raise a stink it isn't going to change. Pointing to the number of registered players doesn't mean anything, the vast majority are recreational and a huge percentage are little kids whose parents have only a passing interest in the game. I have no doubt that the day will come but I fear I may not be around to see it.

[TFC07]

So how do we develop "soccer culture" in Canada?

Honestly, our development sucks and only answer to our problems if we have enough professional soccer teams that are willing to dish out cash in academy or better yet form our own professional soccer league that require teams to invest in academies. We need a professional setup and rely on professional clubs to develop our best players.

[CanadasBest]

Right...6-8 internationals in Canada a year. Name me one country that gets to play 6-8 men's internationals a year, period! We don't have qualifiers for a European championship to rely on either. And frankly if we had the money, I'd rather play matches in Europe where most of our players are than have them fly back to Canada. And I'll ignore the rest of the comments cause they are so off the mark it's not even noteworthy.

In 2010:

Costa Rica: 10 Games (1 at home)

Panama: 10 Games (7 at home)

USA: 14 Games (7 at home)

Mexico: 20 Games (6 in Mexico + 5 neutral games in the US in front of Pro Mexican crowds)

Cuba: 7 Games (3 at home)

Jamaica: 11 Games (6 at home)

Guatemala: 7 Games (2 at home)

Honduras: 15 Games (3 at home)

Grenada: 8 Games (3 at home)

St Vincent + Grenadines: 9 Games (5 at home)

El Salvador: 5 Games (2 at home)

Canada: 6 Games (2 at home)

6-8 home games a year probably won't happen, but everyone except for El Salvador played more games than we did last year. It's the same every year.

[JamboAl]

I stand corrected then. However, my position on expecting 6-8 home matches still stands. It's impractical for a country that doesn't have a large pool of domestic league players to draw on.

[Robert]

You are right, and that is precisely the reason the CSA should do something to increase our domestic pool of talent. Have they recently initiated anything along those lines? Just saying that Canada will soon have three teams in the MLS is obviously not enough. The current Whitecaps' line-up features only one Canadian, and there are only four players in their matchday programs that have a Maple Leaf flag besides their name. The TFC are more Canadian in that regard. But even when you add the eligible players that the Impact will add next season it will still not increase this pool significantly. Other teams need to be brought into the fold, and that is where the Nutrilite Canadian Championship could play a role. If PDL teams and/or Canadian Challenge Cup teams could be included at an earlier stage of this competition, somewhat along the lines of the Italian Cup competition like Rudi suggested elsewhere, it might encourage those teams to offer some financial incentives to their players.

I stand corrected then. However, my position on expecting 6-8 home matches still stands. It's impractical for a country that doesn't have a large pool of domestic league players to draw on.