Canada - Ecuador Game Thread [R]

[Viruk42]

- Lots of Ecuadoran support in front of me but my area also had a lot of Canadian support made up partly of friends & family of Hutchinson and Borjan - in fact there was a large group of what looked to be fans of a Serbian background chanting something in Serbian in support of Borjan everytime he made a save. I'm not sure what it was they were saying as I don't speak the language but it sounded like "Sheki!!!" - anyone out there able to shed light on this? Anyway, it was good to see.

I think this is something important that we (and the CSA) should make use of. The team is like our country, made up of people with many different backgrounds brought together because they are Canadian too. So if we play off that, we can bring in extra fans. They may not support Canada against the country the support regularily, but maybe they can adopt Canada as their 2nd nation in more ways than just living here. Think about it, Borjan and Dejan Jakovic are Serbian-Canadians, so they can draw the Serbian crowds. Lars likely has Norwegian blood, Haidar is Algerian-Canadian, Klukowski is Polish-Canadian, Marcel de Jong is Dutch-Canadian, Pacheco Portuguese-Canadian, Nakajima-Farran is half Japanese and half Canadian, and we could use all of those to draw the crowds of their respective backgrounds. Obviously there's the central american players as well, along with the British ones...I think there's a couple Italians too, no? Zavarise and Uccello?

Point is, those fans are not likely to see their nations very often. When was the last time Norway or Japan came and played in Canada? But if we can convince their communities to come out in support of people just like them, people who are also a mix between ___ and Canada, then we'd have more support. There should be ad campaigns (I don't really need to continue this sentence, since I don't really think there are any ad campaigns to begin with, but I will) that show players saying things like "I'm an Italian-Canadian, just like some of you. So come out and support Canada". Okay, it could use better writers, but the point remains the same. We need to tap into the immigrant market better.

[closetboostie]

That game was a freakin roller coaster. The first half was excellent, on balance. I was very pleased how our attacking players were able to create chances; through good player and ball movement on the buildup, or several times after a quick dispossession of an Ecuadorian player they wasted no time attacking the Ecuador backline with a killer instinct I'm not used to seeing from Canada. Despite playing very well for the most part, we almost gave it all away with some careless mental errors and we were lucky for Ecuador not to score. I think anyone would say Canada had the best of the first half however.

Second half was a different story obviously, De Guzman was a downgrade from what Dunfield showed in the 1st half. Considering Dunfield's high work rate I thought he showed excellent composure and touch on the ball and worked well breaking pressure with Hutchinson and Johnson in the middle, very impressive even aside from his goal. De Guzman was in Goldilocks mode for me; he was at times out of control, too aggressive and getting caught out of position, and other times didn't show a sense of urgency at important times. I think it's hard to evaluate the overall play after all the changes, I don't think the personnel on the field for most of the 2nd half is indicative of what we'll see on Tuesday. Nevertheless it was so nice to see Canada have the killer instinct, the guile to make the play on the 2nd goal. That's the mentality we need to survive and thrive in this confederation. That might have been the most important thing I take away from the match.

Some other random thoughts; Ledgerwood was ok, he didn't make any glaring mistakes, but we really need an upgrade at RB. I don't know if Peters is the man for the job, but too many times a promising buildup ended with Ledgerwood lingering on the ball then making a long backpass to Borjan, or alternately a hope ball to nobody up the field.

Hopefully Jakovic isn't lost for the whole tournament, not sure what Hart will do about that; Maybe he was shaky tonight but I think our best option at CB is Mckenna / Jakovic. The glaring error from him was as he was injured, so have to give him a break there.

Hutchinson and Simpson were excellent, they will be our engine, I thought Jackson was good. De Ro has to be a complimentary player, not a focal point if we will have any success. I don't think Friend helped or hurt his case to be in the lineup, our 11 when he was on was much different in makeup than the first half.

[zeelaw]

Many were actually local Toronto fans and I asked every one of them if they would wear the Red and White if our opponent was anyone other than Ecuador and for what it's worth they all said yes!

Did you ask them if they were at the Peru game?

[guppy]

6 - Simpson's one-on-one move, leading up to Dunfield's goal was a highlight in my mind. Very nice.

Something about that goal, I counted 17 passes before the goal! An Ecuadorian player may have touched the ball once as he lunched for it, but there were 17 passes in that possession.

Also, I think Johnson was chipping the ball to a teammate at the post to head in... unless I'm mistaken, I don't think it was a shot. Maybe I'm delusional. But there was I believe Jackson standing at the left post and that's where the ball was going for him to head in.

Only thing bugged me is Craig's insistence at the end that the foul leading to the tying goal wasn't a foul. I don't know why he acted so sure. It looked like it was, to me.

[red card]

Only in the major cities like TO, Montreal & Vancouver would we get true passionate support like we saw last night. While other cities are likely to have an overall pro-Canada crowd, it will mostly be a soccer mom type atmosphere. Anytime anyone will be standing is when a goal is scored. Sorta like the Ecuador crowd last night - more in numbers but not in atmosphere.

[phil7777]

Did you ask them if they were at the Peru game?

Funny, I was about to ask gator if he'd think that all those ecuadorian that said "yes" to support Canada if they are not playing Ecuador would ACTUALLY come to support a Canadian matchup against another country. My thoughts: probably not.

However, maybe a few would after yesterday's game. We have to build slowly but surely. a few at a time. A strong Gold Cup performance would sure help.

Another thing, I think playing the US would actually bring all the canadians and minorities together to support Canada. Who likes the yanks right?

[Kurosawa1555362267]

I jumped in celebration all alone in the living room when Dunfield scored, my girlfriend who was bathing my son made a comment about the fact that I don't do anything like that for her and my son not even dressed nor dried ran to me to see the replay of it. That was a great moment.

A great first half and an not so great second half, still I guess with more matches we will be able to do better in defence and not make those mental mistakes. Too bad we start with thw US, it would've been better to face them in the end.

[TFCRegina]

I jumped in celebration all alone in the living room when Dunfield scored, my girlfriend who was bathing my son made a comment about the fact that I don't do anything like that for her and my son not even dressed nor dried ran to me to see the replay of it. That was a great moment.

A great first half and an not so great second half, still I guess with more matches we will be able to do better in defence and not make those mental mistakes. Too bad we start with thw US, it would've been better to face them in the end.

We were watching in a bar at a family restaurant at dinner. We were told to quiet down...lol. We jumped and lost our ****. What a goal that was!

[hip]

I had a great time at the game and was happy with the performance.

Some key areas that we need to improve on IMO:

1. Availability/Support

Too often the guy with the ball had no outlet and ended up having to make a pass to a guy who was covered. These guys need to spread out more, lose their marker and provide options to their teammates.

2. Giveaways

I think we had too many of them and we need to do better. Too many guys seem to not want to make the short simple pass as if it's a bad thing.

3. Positional sense

I noticed gaps a number of times in the game where we had no player in the area. This happens now and then but for us happened again and again. It also seemed like DeRosario was hugging the line for large parts of the game, don't know why he thought that was a good idea.

Just my 2 cents.

[Guest Ed]

Also somewhat surprised at the negativity in this thread.

Thought Hart's starting lineup was largely well chosen, giving Jackson a go up front. Despite the short time together, thought we outplayed Ecuador in the first half. Simpson is putting his stamp on this team and his enthusiasm was matched by Dunfield, terrific strike! We could easily have been up by 2 or 3 at half-time.

I have been a big supporter of JdG for over 10 years now, but he really isn't performing at the level he used to. I would start Dunfield in the GC, recognizing that he does have a bit of a hot head and can take unnecessary cards but his short distribution game was in good form.

The back line took a hit with the injury to Jakovic but I thought Ledgerwood has earned the starting right back position, as he was caught out very rarely. Our centre backs were adequate. The first goal was entirely the fault of Borjan. He was well out as the corner was launched, in position to take it in the air. McKenna backed off seeing this, but Borjan heard footsteps and retreated to his line when he really should have got the ball. You could see McKenna gesture that he thought the keeper had the ball after they scored. The second goal could have been prevented if JdG had put some pressure on the shooter. As said above, de Jong looked good at times but I think he exposed McKenna to a number of one on ones, something you didn't see happening on the right side of our half. I would start Jackson over anybody up front, he just looks ready to have a stunning game any time now. Johnson had an off night but still think he needs to start. Not impressed with deRo at all.

All in all a very satisfying result with that last minute 'f-y Ecuador moment' as we really should not have been in a position to lose this match given all the chances we had.

[Drew Shaw]

Amazing from Simpson. What the hell was that from Johnson?

Is is just me, or does Simpson always play well for Canada? I wonder if Whitecaps, Toronto FC, or Impact have talked to him. It can't be that great living in Turkey - can it?

[TFCRegina]

Is is just me, or does Simpson always play well for Canada? I wonder if Whitecaps, Toronto FC, or Impact have talked to him. It can't be that great living in Turkey - can it?

He gets paid way more, and it's a beautiful country. He's also very happy.

That's why he signed a contract extension with Manisa.

[Drew Shaw]

Maybe more people were interested in watching game 1 BOS VAN or maybe Ecuadorians are so passionate that they came from all over just to see this game

People who support Ecuador or any other country's national team in Canadian stadia aren't "passionate" about football. None of them know a single player on the team they are cheering for. None of them watch domestic football from their "home" here in Canada because you can't get those games here anyway, and none of them support their local football clubs, in this case Toronto FC.

These games are a cultural events for immigrants, not sporting events. They sing their national anthem and a few folk songs together in Spanish, meet people from their homeland, and indulge in nostalgic homesickness together. These aren't football fans, and they're never going to be fans of Canadian MLS teams or the Canadian national soccer teams, so thinking they will be "converted" to becoming fans of local soccer is futile.

Canadian fans should, of course, be concerned about 14,000 spectators at an event in the middle of 5 million people. With a population that large, there shouldn't even be any tickets available to people who are "supporting" the visiting team whose players they can't even name. The onus is on us to fill the stadia, because when we do that, those in yellow or blue or green jerseys can do whatever they want to and it will add to the atmosphere, rather than illustrate that the place is half empty, and that the home side isn't well supported.

As to your comment/question about the hockey game; certainly everyone (literally) in British Columbia is watching the Canucks, but does anyone else in the country really care enough to not attend this soccer game if they wanted to? I can't imagine that a Canucks game is "must-see" television for fans of other teams, just like the Ottawa, Edmonton, and Calgary play-off runs of the last decade didn't attract that much interest here in British Columbia. I watched some of those games if I happened to be dial flicking while they were on, but I certainly didn't alter my schedule to watch hockey teams I don't really care about. It doesn't seem likely that the Canucks game prevented anyone in Toronto who was likely to go from going to this Canadian soccer game. But correct me if I'm wrong.

[Drew Shaw]

It strikes me that the quality of the Canadian fans that do show up is lost on the TV broadcast. I realize that there is a tradition of supporters groups occupying the south end but if it meant stirring more interest from the general public it would be much more beneficial to have the supporters section directly in front of the cameras as much as possible. It certainly is a fun atmosphere and that is something in itself that might encourage newbies to turn out. As it is it's hard to blame the uninitiated for thinking they might not enjoy being overwhelmed by the visiting team's supporters.

Just a thought.

You are correct, of course. Unfortunately, the most organised fans are the 20-30s males who prefer the cheap seats in the end, and those don't get shown on the telly.

[killgod]

Also somewhat surprised at the negativity in this thread.

Thought Hart's starting lineup was largely well chosen, giving Jackson a go up front. Despite the short time together, thought we outplayed Ecuador in the first half. Simpson is putting his stamp on this team and his enthusiasm was matched by Dunfield, terrific strike! We could easily have been up by 2 or 3 at half-time.

I have been a big supporter of JdG for over 10 years now, but he really isn't performing at the level he used to. I would start Dunfield in the GC, recognizing that he does have a bit of a hot head and can take unnecessary cards but his short distribution game was in good form.

The back line took a hit with the injury to Jakovic but I thought Ledgerwood has earned the starting right back position, as he was caught out very rarely. Our centre backs were adequate. The first goal was entirely the fault of Borjan. He was well out as the corner was launched, in position to take it in the air. McKenna backed off seeing this, but Borjan heard footsteps and retreated to his line when he really should have got the ball. You could see McKenna gesture that he thought the keeper had the ball after they scored. The second goal could have been prevented if JdG had put some pressure on the shooter. As said above, de Jong looked good at times but I think he exposed McKenna to a number of one on ones, something you didn't see happening on the right side of our half. I would start Jackson over anybody up front, he just looks ready to have a stunning game any time now. Johnson had an off night but still think he needs to start. Not impressed with deRo at all.

All in all a very satisfying result with that last minute 'f-y Ecuador moment' as we really should not have been in a position to lose this match given all the chances we had.

I agree about JDG, he's not looking well out there but I disagree that Hart made a bad move by putting him in. Dunfield showed what we needed to see and Hart needed to see what he has with JDG, hopefully he saw what we saw and doesn't start JDG until he gets better.

I disagree about the first goal. I suppose you could say Borjan didn't play the ball well, but one of those 4 red shirts should have marked that player and none of them did. That was poor defending IMO.

[jpg75]

I disagree about the first goal. I suppose you could say Borjan didn't play the ball well, but one of those 4 red shirts should have marked that player and none of them did. That was poor defending IMO.

It's the keeper's responsibilty, it was entirely his fault (ok, 90% his fault - don't want to rip the guy too much on the day he signs a new deal).

[Gian-Luca]

Shame on the Canadian press for calling the tying goal "controversial" in their article (which seemed to be the only one I've seen picked up my a lot of the print newspapers that have bothered to run a story on it). I suppose that any goal that one team decides to whine about could be considered "controversial", which would be about 50% of all goals scored in soccer - whether it was actually controversial to a neutral observer (which the press are supposed to be) is another matter. Ecuador took advantage of quick free kicks the whole game - they can hardly complain that Canada decided to do so, and whining about whether it was a foul to begin with was pointless - especially that many players doing it

[James]

Great result. Very impressed with how well we played, especially that first half. We coulda been up 2 or 3-0.

I always like Dunfield and he's more than earned himself into the starting 11. I'm worried about Jakovic getting hurt. Thats a big hit, heading to GC. Man, I wish Hart would give Edgar a call.

Toronto was a disgrace. Absolutely. I feel for the Canadian fans that went and especially for our players, they did an amazing job but until we can at least compete with the opposing fans, Toronto shouldn't be getting games. We all have the same problem and there will always be big numbers of opposing fans but this game was sickening. This was Ecuador for heaven's sake! Imagine if it HAD been Mexico? I don't know who should be getting the blame for this BS, if it's the CSA, TFC, the media, the soccer fans? Whatever... It doesn't change the fact that there were what? 2000 Canadian fans lost in a sea of south americans at a home game! Our players deserve better and the real fans in Toronto deserve better. BMO isn't the only place to play... I don't want to risk this crap happening for WCQ. Our odds are better in Vancouver or Montreal(for some matches) or a Canada-Mexico game in Edmonton in November.... Toronto sucked it big. Disgraceful. (oh yeah, I don't care how jovial and friendly the yellow shirts were, they can stuff their tiny little Canadian flags back in pockets if they come to cheer any other country trying to defeat us in Canada

[loyola]

It's the keeper's responsibilty, it was entirely his fault (ok, 90% his fault - don't want to rip the guy too much on the day he signs a new deal).

Not entirely true. If Borjan called for the ball, it's his responsability to get there but if he didn't it's up to the defense to clear it. As a defender you should never assumed that your keeper is coming even if you feel he should.

That being said, some of the blame should go to Borjan because I think he could've got to that ball. The extent of responsability depends on the communication he gave on the play. Maybe someone who was behing the goal could tell us more about it.

[closetboostie]

It's the keeper's responsibilty, it was entirely his fault (ok, 90% his fault - don't want to rip the guy too much on the day he signs a new deal).

You are both right. It was entirely the keeper's fault, he was damn near under the flight of the ball before he retreated to his goal line. BUT, I'm pretty sure I counted SIX RED SHIRTS in a straight line lose the battle to the 1 Ecuadorian in the area. Terrible on all fronts and if we don't clean that sort of thing up we'll be done in the quarterfinals, no matter how good we've looked at times recently.

[loyola]

You are both right. It was entirely the keeper's fault, he was damn near under the flight of the ball before he retreated to his goal line. BUT, I'm pretty sure I counted SIX RED SHIRTS in a straight line lose the battle to the 1 Ecuadorian in the area. Terrible on all fronts and if we don't clean that sort of thing up we'll be done in the quarterfinals, no matter how good we've looked at times recently.

The number of Canadians shirt doesn't matter if Borjan called for the ball. Defenders don't clear the ball when the keeper asked for it with the typical "keeper" shout.

[closetboostie]

Shame on the Canadian press for calling the tying goal "controversial" in their article (which seemed to be the only one I've seen picked up my a lot of the print newspapers that have bothered to run a story on it). I suppose that any goal that one team decides to whine about could be considered "controversial", which would be about 50% of all goals scored in soccer - whether it was actually controversial to a neutral observer (which the press are supposed to be) is another matter. Ecuador took advantage of quick free kicks the whole game - they can hardly complain that Canada decided to do so, and whining about whether it was a foul to begin with was pointless - especially that many players doing it

That goal was a beautiful thing and is the exactly the sort of mentality we need more of. To me that was the biggest positive of the whole match. A winner's mentality, do whatever it takes no matter if it's in the rules or not. Clearly this was within the rules but we are all to often on the other side of these events.

[Guest Ed]

I agree about JDG, he's not looking well out there but I disagree that Hart made a bad move by putting him in. Dunfield showed what we needed to see and Hart needed to see what he has with JDG, hopefully he saw what we saw and doesn't start JDG until he gets better.

I disagree about the first goal. I suppose you could say Borjan didn't play the ball well, but one of those 4 red shirts should have marked that player and none of them did. That was poor defending IMO.

I never said that Hart made a bad move putting JdG in; in fact, it was expected. But JdG's performance wasn't up to his standard.

[closetboostie]

The number of Canadians shirt doesn't matter if Borjan called for the ball. Defenders don't clear the ball when the keeper asked for it with the typical "keeper" shout.

Agreed, if Borjan called for the ball then they wouldn't play it. If we're speculating, however, the keeper's body language doesn't look like he wanted it. Also not a good thing but it doesn't take everyone else off the hook. I too, would love to know what really happened.

[killgod]

I never said that Hart made a bad move putting JdG in; in fact, it was expected. But JdG's performance wasn't up to his standard.

Sorry, I kind of was responding to other commentary about that without directly quoting them as well. I think TFCRegina said it was a bad move to put him in. Mucked that up.

To comment further on that corner, some more practice time fixes that I think, so I wouldn't worry.