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Demographically it is mostly white europeans

Worth bearing in mind that somebody born in Split or Lisbon will on average be more likely to be interested in pro soccer than somebody born in Fort McMurray or Red Deer and that's why the article by Terry Jones probably mentions ads being in Croatian, Italian, Portuguese, Serbian, Spanish and Ukrainian.

All the Scottish coaches I had growing up are probably grandfathers now... they should be there with their grandkids. (The voice of one still rings in my ears all these years later reminding me to "tighten yer boots b'fer ya leave the 'ouse!")

This a bit pedantic but as somebody who grew up in Scotland I can tell that coach was probably actually from the more southern parts of England if he spoke anything like that. People from Scotland don't drop their h's and would tend to pronounce it hoose (at least the ones who play soccer rather than rugby anyway).

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This a bit pedantic but as somebody who grew up in Scotland I can tell that coach was probably actually from the more southern parts of England if he spoke anything like that. People from Scotland don't drop their h's and would tend to pronounce it hoose (at least the ones who play soccer rather than rugby anyway).

But they all say "bonnie wee lass" just the same. :)

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Because that kind of thing worked so well for the Drillers, Eagles, Brickmen and Aviators? That demographic still tends to gravitate towards the NHL, CFL and even indoor lacrosse before paying any attention to soccer.

Being taken seriously by the people, who are most passionate about the sport is the key to getting what is still a marginal minor league product in entertainment terms up to a sustainable break even level in economic terms. That still tends to be people born overseas and the second generation that are still reasonably close to their ancestral culture. Once the foundation is in place with the hardcore of the soccer community on that basis and there is an SSS in place that is actually a suitable venue for the sport it will be time for FC Edmonton to think about going after the mainstream demographic to a greater extent if MLS is on the agenda long term.

Beyond that somebody maybe needs to explain to Terry Jones that FC Edmonton are simply copying a lot of what TFC did with this approach. In a Toronto context the slogan used was "All for One" rather than "Stand United".

"Because that kind of thing worked so well for the Drillers, Eagles, Brickmen and Aviators? That demographic still tends to gravitate towards the NHL, CFL and even indoor lacrosse before paying any attention to soccer. "

Sure most of it will, and that's to be expected. Facilities matter. Leagues matter. An NHL-size crowd doesn't come out to WHL teams in Calgary, Edmonton, or Vancouver, even in the same facility. I know people who go to the Olympics, Canucks playoff games, and Manchester United exhibition games who don't ever follow winter sports, the NHL, or MLS. People respond to an event in numbers that can't be relied upon for PDL, NASL, or even MLS level soccer. We all know that. So who WILL come out, to the tune of say 5000 people, and support the NASL in Edmonton, Calgary, and Ottawa; or to the tune of 30,000 people to support the MLS in Vancouver, Toronto, and Montreal? That's the question, and there are only limited budgets to attract them, so you have to do what's most efficient.

Most of the membership of the Southsiders consists of non-accent using, English speaking, Canadian-born males, aged 20-40. Note that nowhere in that did I say "white", but I would point out that my anecdotal discussions show that a lot fewer of them had immigrant parents than we're all lead to think. Ditto for the FC Edmonton supporters, and the Lake Side Buoys in Victoria. Ditto for the main crowd in Victoria and Vancouver at the PDL and MLS games I attend, and the USL games which I attended when the Whitecaps were at that level. I start with data first (in this case largely observation, so it's imperfect), and form conclusions based upon that. If the data showed that people with accented English (or no English at all) who had just moved to Canada were the most likely to be at USL/NASL level semi-pro soccer, then I'd be pointing that out, and recommending soccer clubs market to them. But the evidence doesn't show that - it shows the opposite. The people at minor league soccer (or any other sport) are NOT likely to be immigrants at all, as any walk around such a stadium will quickly reveal. Are there some? Sure, of course. But they're not the first or most important market to go after. That market is English-speaking "Canadian" males, aged 20-40.

I read chat forums, and I even ask people sociological polls about why they support Canadian soccer. Most people who attend Whitecaps games are also a fan of the Vancouver Canucks, and/or the BC Lions. The demographic upon which Canadian soccer in Vancouver, Edmonton, and even Victoria will either rely or die is people who (a) consider themself Canadian first (or only), (B) speak fluent English (or French, in Quebec); and © already watch other sports, in most cases including hockey and CFL football. Sure there are some who don't - humans aren't identical. But my comments on marketing are directed at soccer, which doesn't have a lot of financial power in Canada, and at who we can attract to the MLS and NASL now, because until we get those people in, we cannot grow.

My polling attempts on this site show this. My polling attempts on the Southsiders site show this. My conversations with Bob Lenarduzzi confirm this. My conversations with other people who market soccer in Canada confirm this. The overwhelming opinion of experts, polls, and 50 years of Canadian soccer history tells us one thing, and that's what I base my opinions on, because I don't think ignoring reality is a rational thing to do.

"Being taken seriously by the people, who are most passionate about the sport is the key to getting what is still a marginal minor league product in entertainment terms up to a sustainable break even level in economic terms."

If that were the case, then soccer would exceed CFL football in fan interest. CFL football fans consist almost entirely of people who have never played football, and never watched a local junior or university football game, because almost no Canadians do these things. The number of people in Canada who are passionate about soccer exceeds the number who are passionate about grid-iron football. Yet grid-iron football is able to turn a much higher percentage of "passionate fans" into paying customers. Why? I think it's because CFL teams are relevant to fans of gridiron football because they are part of the identities of most of the cities and provinces in Canada. If you've attended a Grey Cup, then you know what I'm talking about. Being taken seriously by people who identify with the team, and the city they live in, is what matters in marketing the CFL in its competition with the NFL; in marketing MLS in competition with European soccer; and in marketing any minor league sport. All those people who refuse to watch the MLS and the NASL, but will watch 9 hours per week of English or Italian soccer on television, are clearly passionate about elite soccer. Passion for the sport isn't the issue. What they don't have is an interest in, or a commitment to, is their local community. So it's not efficient to market to them. That's all I'm saying. Get the most bang for your advertising dollar. Cheers.

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I've gotta disagree with ya. These ads have been placed in areas that have a high concentration of that minority, and honestly as an Canadian fan, I think that it still works. I think that having any kind of ad up increases awareness and intrest. If someone sees the ad, with the website at the bottom, and is curious, they'll go home, look it up and learn about the team that way. Additionally, there has been a lot of ads on buses and the train, which I believe has worked well. I would still like to see more ads up on University campus's and a college corner kind of idea, but I'll settle for what there is this year.

The articles from Terry Jones... I haven't read the most recent, but they all appear to be very negative about the team... Which is odd, because there is also some very positive articles coming from the Edmonton Sun about the team. Terry seems very hung up on the money issue. First it was "oh man they spent so much money last year, they're doomed to failure!", and now since that didn't get any attention and the club has put on several home games to some success, its become "oh man, they're spending so much on advertising, they're doomed to failure!".

I'm of the opinion that getting the name out there to anyone, in any way is positive. Plus the new GM talking about a stadium is also super positive.

Disagreement is always welcome. What are you disagreeing with me about, though?

I think that the point has already been made by others that these ads are clever on a few levels. Sure, they have Korean (or whatever), but they also have English. A large part of the appeal of soccer to me (and others) is the global aspect of it - I have about 40 soccer jerseys from around the world in my closet. I'd consider an advert entirely in, say, Spanish, rather a waste of money in Edmonton, in year one: but with the English bottom part, it attracts both the targeted immigrant group, and those who like the global nature of the game and want a change from the Oilers and Eskimoes. I'd put up ads only in English on a limited budget, in the first stage of my advertising campaign. But if these guys really have the money to spend, then they can afford to go after smaller markets that should be lower on their priority, as they are doing. If THAT'S the case, then FC Edmonton should survive, and I'm supportive of that. But what I do know, in observing soccer for 30 years, is that you live or die by attracting English-speaking males 20-40 to pro sport, no matter what your sport is.

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I'm one of the "paid but didn't show" part of those attendance figures. I had my ticket in my hot little hand, but at the last minute I had to chose between what I wanted to do (go to the game) and what I should do (stay home and take care of my son while my wife was feeling sick)... I was glad to add to the attendance figure, it was worth the price just to be part of it from my living room. You guys did a great job though, I saw the new scarves and was so jealous. That dark blue is the colour scheme they should be going for.

This club should be wearing blue and black stripes (blue for Alberta, black for the oil industry). I was amazed that the Montreal Impact went away from that - it's a great look. Use white rather than yellow lettering if you're worried you'll look too much like Inter Milan. Generic blue uniforms with white blotches on them - for Edmonton or the Impact - just don't do it for me. One of the things you need to do to brand yourself is stand out from other sports, and when soccer teams don't use stripes, hoops (attention Whitecaps), etc they miss out on an easy way to differentiate themselves from hockey and the CFL in this country. Cheers.

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". "

Dismissing the 'ethnic dollar' as not intrested IMO seems short sighted to me. Anyone seen the makeup of Arsenals fanbase these days?

Have you talked to any of those "ethnic" people at Arsenal games? They all have cockney accents. Non-whites who are born here (or in England), speak English, and consider themselves "Canadian-first" (or in Arsenal's case, "English-first") may be "ethnic", but only in the sense that we're all "ethnic". I know two Canadians from the UK of East-Indian ancestry, who speak with thick English accents. They both consider themselves English, not Indian. One's email is "brummie-lass@". These people are targeted by (and included in) advertising in English that focuses on pride in the local team just as much as the stereotypical local white person. Most people form an attachment to where they are born, even if their parents are from somewhere else. Cheers.

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I think that we agree after reading your post... The ads work because they are in both English and whatever language they've been posted in. For example, the mandarin ad is posted in Chinatown, the Italian ad is in little Italy. The punjabi one is one I'm partial to... I live in Millwoods. For those not from Edmonton, the best way of describing millwoods is what my wife likes to say "I'm the visible minority". The language ads are all placed in areas with very high concentrations of non-English speaking populations. However it's important to note that this was just a small part of FCE's campaign this year. In my opinion (and this is where Terry Jones seems to miss the point) the more important part is the transit ads. They're wide reaching and all show supporters and clearly state the sport and team name.

The language ads have been very well received from those that I have talked too however, so I believe that they are effective no matter the language of the viewer. The idea that soccer is the worlds game is reinforced though them, and doesn't limit the target audience to a small number of people like last year where the tram targeted ex-pats by bringing in Pompy or Colo-Colo.

I think most of the Edmonton fans are getting tired of Jones only talkig about the negative. Really discourages people reading the Sun from believing in the club or attending the games.

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Have you talked to any of those "ethnic" people at Arsenal games? They all have cockney accents. Non-whites who are born here (or in England), speak English, and consider themselves "Canadian-first" (or in Arsenal's case, "English-first") may be "ethnic", but only in the sense that we're all "ethnic". .

Yep thats kinda what I was getting at. As your probably aware, UK born -nonwhites now regulary contribute to the forums and talkback shows in the UK, but they are a relativley new demograph in the supporters ranks of the English game (in the last 10-15 years etc) Your looking at 3rd 4th generation, British-Asian and Afro-Carribeans. Thing to remember here is that these lads were shunned in the 70 and 80, when rasicm was a problem in UK footballt. Its was okay to play so long as fruit could be throw at you, but heaven help a black support if he dare go to the ground. It was not a good time at all.

I don't know if it was ever a problem in Canada.

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Not sure why people have this massive hang up about advertising in non-official languages. If there is a target audience that have a strong attachment to the sport who can be reached that way and encouraged to start supporting it makes sound economic sense to do it. In the UK right now clubs have not been shy about targeting the recent influx of Polish immigrants that way:

http://www.perthstjohnstonefc.co.uk/polish-fans.php

and in the early years of MLS Hispanic fans (non-Mexican mainly) were one of key demographics that helped to keep the league afloat so MLS made a big effort to cater to its fanbase in Spanish as well as English:

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2001/06/20010618/E-Sports/To-Draw-Hispanic-Fans-Se-Habla-Espanol-At-MLS-Site.aspx

because it was a basic fact of life that just as people born in Split and Lisbon tend to be more interested in soccer than people born in Fort McMurray and Lethbridge, the same was also the case with Tegucigalpa and Montevideo relative to Duluth and Omaha.

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As a guy from the boonies............

I don't care if soccer fans are ethnic or English speaking, Acadian, Arabic, Hindi, African, Asian, new Canadians.

Nothing to do with FC Edmonton but as long as people show up and pay to attend games it's a good thing.

I just wanna see soccer become community teams and attract fans from across the whole community.

Because that is what builds the game.

I know footie fans hate it but................

Why is Major Jr and Jr A hockey doing so well?

Because communtity's idenitify with the team.

Cross ethnic but civic pride

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Cross ethnic but civic pride

That's the rosy propaganda picture but the reality can be very different:

http://www.torontosun.com/news/columnists/michele_mandel/2008/10/27/7216281-sun.html

...According to John Gardner of the Greater Toronto Hockey League, only 40,000 kids are registered at some level of hockey out of the 950,000 children under the age of 14 in the GTA.

The situation is most dire in Scarborough where plummeting enrolment has seen the Wexford Hockey Association fold completely as well as the house leagues of the Scarborough Young Leafs, Agincourt Lions and Malvern Penguins.

"House league enrolment is dropping 10% a year," says a worried John Kelloway, president of the troubled Scarborough Hockey Association. "Back in the mid-80s, we had 10,000 kids. Now we have 3,000."

The situation is dire, he says, because it took so long for the old establishment to recognize that outreach was critical to new Canadians, especially with so many traditionally hockey-playing families moving out of the GTA. "The Scarborough Hockey Association has done a lousy job of appealing to those communities and getting them involved," Kelloway admits. "The old farts like myself have been so set in our ways. But if we don't change, the competitive side of the Scarborough league will die."...

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Think it should be obvious that I was responding primarily to the "cross ethnic" bit. Never been to any of them but I don't think Wellington, Camrose and Summerside are famed for their multicultural diversity in demographic terms. Beyond that in soccer as a sport globally there really isn't a huge culture of supporting youth teams so it's apples and oranges to a certain extent. Seems to me senior hockey struggles as much as the CSL does to draw spectators at least in an Ontario context so where does the civic pride disappear to in that context? Things may be different in other provinces such as Alberta on that?

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But what you see in England for example of the boonies supporting footie, you see in Canada with hockey.

The Clarenville Caribous won the Allan Cup, the Pembroke Lumberkings the RBC Cup, UNB Varsity Reds the University Cup the Memorial Cup is on going as is the Stanley Cup and Calder Cup. All played in front of 1.000's of patrons.

Ethnic supporters in these towns (as immigration is not limited to the big cities) supported their teams.

Thus civic pride that we don't see in soccer outside of pockets.

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But what you see in England for example of the boonies supporting footie, you see in Canada with hockey.

...and in the context of this thread, so what? People in "the boonies" in Canada chose hockey as their sport to be passionate about rather than soccer. Their choice and hope they continue to have good luck and enjoy themselves with that. I've tried watching and it's honestly not for me. I prefer soccer no matter how often I'm told in beer commercials that it should be otherwise. If you are running a pro soccer team you need to focus first and foremost on people who are actually passionate about the sport, because those are the people who are most likely to be your regular repeat customers. In Canada that will tend to be relatively recent immigrants and their children living in the big cities rather than people from out in "the boonies", although there are always exceptions to the trend on stuff like this who shouldn't be ignored or marginalized.

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Not sure why people have this massive hang up about advertising in non-official languages.

I don't see anybody with a "hang up" on it. Surely you can join the discussion without implying that others are bigots or racist for asking whether this is cost effective, or even effective period.

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...and in the context of this thread, so what? People in "the boonies" in Canada chose hockey as their sport to be passionate about rather than soccer. Their choice and hope they continue to have good luck and enjoy themselves with that. I've tried watching and it's honestly not for me. I prefer soccer no matter how often I'm told in beer commercials that it should be otherwise. If you are running a pro soccer team you need to focus first and foremost on people who are actually passionate about the sport, because those are the people who are most likely to be your regular repeat customers. In Canada that will tend to be relatively recent immigrants and their children living in the big cities rather than people from out in "the boonies", although there are always exceptions to the trend on stuff like this who shouldn't be ignored or marginalized.

What I was trying to say in a Canadian context is that ethnic advertising may be cute but not needed. As new Canadians become part of the community they will develop a civic pride.

Immigration may be larger in the big cities but it is not unique to big cities.

I wasn't trying to compare hockey to soccer as a game but more to show how folk identify with teams representing their communities.

Do the people of Edmonton identify with FCE in the same way they do with the Oilers, Eskies, Oil Kings.

Will FCE develop a civic pride that is needed rather than targeting communities with-in the larger community?

I see you're in London.

Do the Knights sell out almost every game because of the game or does the community envelope the team as OUR team?

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What I was trying to say in a Canadian context is that ethnic advertising may be cute but not needed. As new Canadians become part of the community they will develop a civic pride.

Personally I find the whole "new Canadian" thing a bit dated and patronising. Citizenship is like pregnancy in that there is no grey area involved. You either are or you are not and if you are you have an inherent right to equal treatment as a Canadian just like any other. At least that's what you get told at the end of the ceremony, anyway. I'm also not sure where exactly soccer fits into this civic pride based on assimilation thing you appear to be pushing given it is not actually part of the traditional culture of the mainstream demographic. In Edmonton rigidly fitting in and doing the "civic pride" thing in a junior hockey in "the boonies" sort of way would mean following the Oilers and the Eskimos. Following the fortunes of FC Edmonton is a case of swimming against the tide on that, which is why there is the constant stream of negativity from this journalist called Terry Jones, just as there used to be from certain sports columnists and broadcasters in a Toronto context about TFC.

Some people seem to think that if every hint of ethnic appeal is systematically eradicated and we all simply pretend that the sport has always been part of the mainstream, rather than something that the mainstream has at times actively tried to suppress, it will suddenly be accepted alongside hockey in the pantheon of Canadian sports by some magical process of osmosis. MLS had that kind of mentality in its early years. Slowly along the way after the mainstream demographic failed to show up in the numbers they hoped for they realized that there were large numbers of passionate soccer fans already out there and that actually appealing to them first and foremost rather than to people in the mainstream who are largely indifferent to the sport is actually the key to sustainability and in some cases even profitability. What FC Edmonton are doing with these ads is very much in tune with what has been found to work elsewhere in North America over the last decade or so.

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This thread is starting to go in an interesting direction. I'm working on a Masters' research project in Communications and Technology and I'm looking at how social media (Twitter, Facebook, etc.) can help develop the community a team needs to survive. Without the traditional "mass media" spotlight (TV, newspapers, radio) people have no way of feeling engaged by a team like FC Edmonton. The "narrative" of the team doesn't have any way to extend beyond the 90 minutes on the pitch. The team may as well be dead when they go on a roadtrip for 2 weeks - there's nothing to hold the community together. Social media is changing that... it's giving people the framework to build a connection between the team and the fans, as well as between the fans. THAT's how you develop "our team".

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Also,

you can't make a Boonies comparrison with England, as that Concept does not exist over there. That is, unless by the usage of the word "boonies", you are refering to a working class Blue Collar section of society, which is where the historical support for soccer in the UK originates.

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This thread is starting to go in an interesting direction. I'm working on a Masters' research project in Communications and Technology and I'm looking at how social media (Twitter, Facebook, etc.) can help develop the community a team needs to survive. Without the traditional "mass media" spotlight (TV, newspapers, radio) people have no way of feeling engaged by a team like FC Edmonton. The "narrative" of the team doesn't have any way to extend beyond the 90 minutes on the pitch. The team may as well be dead when they go on a roadtrip for 2 weeks - there's nothing to hold the community together. Social media is changing that... it's giving people the framework to build a connection between the team and the fans, as well as between the fans. THAT's how you develop "our team".

Okay,

Yes social media is changing that. I'm a big believer in the OUR TEAM.

If the broad community doesn't identify with a team they won't show up.

I honestly hate to keep coming back to Jr Hockey but it fascinates me that across this country that millions show up to support their teams in small towns and big cities. Usually with-out the help of traditional media especially at the national level.

Wouldn't it be great if FCE got the 5-6-7,000 that the Oil Kings get.

I'm not buying the traditional soccer fans point anymore that soccer is the Rodney Dangerfield of sport.

WE GET NO RESPECT.

How has Jr Hockey tapped into a community spirit with-out large media presence like Major League sports and how can an emerging soccer team learn from them?

Jr hockey has been around a long time but it's with-in the last generation that it has grown to new levels.

Is there something in the marketing that Jr Hockey does that can apply to emerging soccer teams?

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...Usually with-out the help of traditional media especially at the national level...

Who are you trying to kid with that? The local paper, radio and TV stations will all cover junior hockey as the big sports story in smaller towns and cities. It's a core part of the traditional culture after all. Soccer is usually an afterthought by comparison even when you can get a significant crowd out to a game, because it isn't. I have direct experience of dealing with the media in that regard. Some journalists are fair minded about it, especially the younger ones. Others hate soccer because they see it as an unCanadian activity and will deliberately avoid mentioning it if they can get away with it and if they do have to will start spewing an endless stream of negativity instead of trying to provide balanced coverage. The internet makes a big difference because the "dinosaur media" are no longer able to set the agenda to the extent they used to be able to twenty or thirty years ago. The proliferation of cable channels to cater to niche interests also makes a big difference because it has made it easy for a whole generation of young Canadian soccer players to grow up watching the game. It's too bad FC Edmonton haven't been able to find a home for at least some of their games in that regard. Think that's something the NASL needs to address in future seasons.

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I totally agree with the importance of 'OUR TEAM' and I think that that first starts with the community feeling that there is a connection with the players on the team.

Don Maclean does a wonderful job on CBC by bringing in all the little bits of information about players that allows people to feel connected with the players.

You can see it at TFC when the 'local heroes' signed for the club and again with the WhiteCaps signing Dunfield.

I think FCE has a tremendous pr opportunity given the number of local players (edm and ab and canadian) on the team. I am not a marketing expert and not sure how best to exploit this but I think that it is an avenue to explore.

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