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TFC vs. Columbus and some jack-ass of a Ref (R)


Gian-Luca

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Didn't see a thread for this game. 1-1 draw, with TFC down to 10-men after 42 minutes when goal-scorer Tchani gets sent off for jumping over the advertising boards and into the crowd to celebrate his goal. It was his second yellow with the first also being undeserved. Tchani did not remove his jersey, he jumped into the crowd the same way that Dunfield and Gordon (to name but two) celebrated their goals (against & for TFC) and did not get a yellow on either occasion, whereas Charlie Davies last week deliberately taunted the supporters after a goal and got nothing. So apparently celebrating a goal with the crowd is not okay, but deliberate taunting of the crowd is. No doubt someone will explain the logic of this, and the complete inconsistency.

MLS needs to come out here and maintain consistency with the officiating, as it does the reputation and quality of the league no good. The game was ruined for Toronto, who was outplaying Columbus (who didn't create dick until they were un-deservedly up a man) and another home game burned without getting maximum points. Hopefully TFC can get some similarly really bad calls go in their favour on their upcoming road games, as they will need to pick up a lot of points on the road to make the playoffs.

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Tchani did not remove his jersey, he jumped into the crowd the same way that Dunfield and Gordon (to name but two) celebrated their goals (against & for TFC) and did not get a yellow on either occasion

FWIW, Dunfield did get a yellow for his celebration (or rather, for "leaving without permission").

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FWIW, Dunfield did get a yellow for his celebration (or rather, for "leaving without permission").

Correct.

Isn't it also a yellow or even a red to have physical contact with a fan?

As far as the game it was brutal. Gian-Luca is right in that TFC was looking great and seemed to be on their way to victory. Unfortunate but after so many similar incidents I would have figured the manager would have explained the rule to every player, Thciani honestly looked surprised. Personally I don't think there's anything wrong with goal celebrations as long as it's not pre-meditated (Hassli) or involves taunting the other team's fans.

JDG seems to be getting better with every game, the pass to Tchiani was excellant. Hopefully more improvment to come.

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Correct.

Isn't it also a yellow or even a red to have physical contact with a fan?

As far as the game it was brutal. Gian-Luca is right in that TFC was looking great and seemed to be on their way to victory. Unfortunate but after so many similar incidents I would have figured the manager would have explained the rule to every player, Thciani honestly looked surprised. Personally I don't think there's anything wrong with goal celebrations as long as it's not pre-meditated (Hassli) or involves taunting the other team's fans.

JDG seems to be getting better with every game, the pass to Tchiani was excellant. Hopefully more improvment to come.

Winter, during his post-match presser was asked about JDG with the pre-amble that he is looking better every game (something that I agree with) and Winter replied (more or less) ... yes but he is not the Julian DeGuzman that I know. He will get much better.

Watch here: http://torontofc.neulion.com/tfc/console.jsp?catid=2&id=3024

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Dunfield got a YC for jumping in the crowd, Tchani should've known better IMO.

BigSoccer ref thread about this game:

http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1716142

Gordon didn't get a card, and Charles Davies did it on a number of occasions without a card.

Honestly, I think MLS should, as much as possible, following international customs when it comes to how the rules are made...

... however, is this the way to attract fans? Punishing players wanting to be close to fans? Isn't MLS looking to provide an intimate experience, by encouraging clubs to build SSS?

Casual fans love it when players show there appreciation.

At the end of the day, whatever the rule is, they should either enforce it, or NOT. They can't pick and choose. The first Yellow was BS. Ref copped out by giving both sides a yellow, it was clearly unsportsmanlike behavior on Columbus, he should have punished Columbus, period

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While it may seem harsh but I put the blame on Tchani and winner of the moron of the week award.

Take a yellow for a crunching tackle. Never give the ref an oppurtunity to get yourself thrown out for stupidity.

It's hard to understand the mental weakness of some players.

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Gordon didn't get a card, and Charles Davies did it on a number of occasions without a card.

Honestly, I think MLS should, as much as possible, following international customs when it comes to how the rules are made...

... however, is this the way to attract fans? Punishing players wanting to be close to fans? Isn't MLS looking to provide an intimate experience, by encouraging clubs to build SSS?

Casual fans love it when players show there appreciation.

At the end of the day, whatever the rule is, they should either enforce it, or NOT. They can't pick and choose. The first Yellow was BS. Ref copped out by giving both sides a yellow, it was clearly unsportsmanlike behavior on Columbus, he should have punished Columbus, period

The ref followed FIFA rules (which isn't clear on this issue), I'm not sure why you are talking about MLS here. This ref, rightly or wrongly, felt that Law 12 was infringed by Tchani and gave a YC. He would've done so if the game was a FIFA WCQ.

MLS has nothing to do with this.

Here's FIFA interpretation on Law 12 and goal celebration (p.116):

http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/worldfootball/clubfootball/01/37/04/28/law12.pdf

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The ref followed FIFA rules (which isn't clear on this issue), I'm not sure why you are talking about MLS here. This ref, rightly or wrongly, felt that Law 12 was infringed by Tchani and gave a YC. He would've done so if the game was a FIFA WCQ.

MLS has nothing to do with this.

Here's FIFA interpretation on Law 12 and goal celebration (p.116):

http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/worldfootball/clubfootball/01/37/04/28/law12.pdf

Having viewed the video again, ya, he did jump up on the railing. Of course, so did Gordon with no YC. All we are asking for his consistency.

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Having viewed the video again, ya, he did jump up on the railing. Of course, so did Gordon with no YC. All we are asking for his consistency.

I agree but it doesn't make Gantar decision wrong. Maybe Gordon just got a break last time and at the end of the day the players should know better.

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I agree but it doesn't make Gantar decision wrong. Maybe Gordon just got a break last time and at the end of the day the players should know better.

I didn't say he made the wrong decision. The problem is consistency. If a player sees others doing it without being penalized ie Alan Gordon, it opens the potential for more to do the same.

Gordon break or not, if it is a "must" in the FIFA rules (as it certainly appears to be), than that "break" is actually a condemnation of the incompetence of that particular official.

Where Gantar did screw up on Saturday was the first yellow to Tchani. He wasn't part of the melee until after the heavy stuff was over. The TFC player who should have been yellow carded was Alan Gordon (again). Gantar knew somebody had to be carded and he just blindly picked the closest guy in red. Once again, Alan Gordon got a break.

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I didn't say he made the wrong decision. The problem is consistency. If a player sees others doing it without being penalized ie Alan Gordon, it opens the potential for more to do the same.

Gordon break or not, if it is a "must" in the FIFA rules (as it certainly appears to be), than that "break" is actually a condemnation of the incompetence of that particular official.

Where Gantar did screw up on Saturday was the first yellow to Tchani. He wasn't part of the melee until after the heavy stuff was over. The TFC player who should have been yellow carded was Alan Gordon (again). Gantar knew somebody had to be carded and he just blindly picked the closest guy in red. Once again, Alan Gordon got a break.

Tchani clearly jumped in the melee and that's why he was YCarded. Gordon also participated but I thought Tchani was the worst offender from TFC.

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Tchani clearly jumped in the melee and that's why he was YCarded. Gordon also participated but I thought Tchani was the worst offender from TFC.

Sorry. I'm talking about Gordon's leap up onto the perimeter fence after his goal against Chivas. I'm talking about consistency from referee to referee from game to game on issues that are theoretically supposed to be black and white .... according to FIFA anyway.

http://torontofc.neulion.com/tfc/console.jsp?id=2921

http://fussball.wettpoint.com/en/games/933337.html

In this game, Gordon should have been the TFC yellow carded when Tchani received his first yellow ... undeservedly.

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From my MNT perspective I thought de Guzman had a strong showing. He still forced the odd forward pass resulting in a giveaway but didn't dwell on the ball too long and used quick, simple possession (in evidence on the first goal build up, including the final lofted pass to Tchani) and minded his defensive responsibilities quite capably, especially in the second half with the team a man down. Good to see from him and I hope he keeps this kind of play going (should have received the MOTM instead of Cann, IMO).

Tchani's forward run into the space created by Gordon's target man play and knockback to JDG is something that has been missing from the TFC attacking midfield play since DeRo's departure. Though Santos was somewhat better in the AM role (combining well with Martina a few times) then in previous starts there, he still looks to be a square peg in a round hole with regards to that position so to me, that's the next item on the Winter/De Klerk/Mariner shopping list.

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Sorry. I'm talking about Gordon's leap up onto the perimeter fence after his goal against Chivas. I'm talking about consistency from referee to referee from game to game on issues that are theoretically supposed to be black and white .... according to FIFA anyway.

http://torontofc.neulion.com/tfc/console.jsp?id=2921

http://fussball.wettpoint.com/en/games/933337.html

In this game, Gordon should have been the TFC yellow carded when Tchani received his first yellow ... undeservedly.

lol this is getting confusing.

I was talking about Tchani first YC. Him and Gordon jumped in the melee at probably the same time but Tchani stormed in which is why I think he was selected for the YC. But the TV replay I have doesn't have the best view of the whole incident but one thing is clear, Tchani was involved.

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While it may seem harsh but I put the blame on Tchani and winner of the moron of the week award.

Take a yellow for a crunching tackle. Never give the ref an oppurtunity to get yourself thrown out for stupidity.

It's hard to understand the mental weakness of some players.

+1 It's like the majority of people in life that do stupid things and then don't want to take responsibility for their actions and so they blame it on others. As soon as Tchani ran over to the crowd I knew a 2nd yellow was coming. He was the one that hurt his team by getting ejected, no one else.

I don't know how Winter manages to stay so calm sometimes dealing with such stupid players.

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Refs that are aiming in a big way for world cup level games and to move all the way up in FIFA terms are more likely to be sticklers on stuff like that.

Which is precisely the problem. The people who give direction to and assess refs will look at that second yellow and say "job well done" Game Ruiner Gantar; have a promotion. The way fans and players want the game called - with reasonable common sense and an acknowledgement of context - is of no interest to these people. The problem more often than not isn't inconsistency it's rigorous adherence to an abstractly "consistent" interpretation of the laws divorced from the reality of the game as it is played.

My personal feeling: if Tchani did indeed climb the perimeter wall ala Dunfield the YC could be justified. I'm not entirely sure he actually did though and the decision was still absurd in the context of it being a second yellow that would dramatically affect the game for such an innocuous incident that was no danger to anyone and didn't delay the restart. This is precisely where the rules should allow space for referees to exhibit discretion and not tie their hands.

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Honest question: is that statement encouraging or discouraging based on what we've seen out of Julian for the last 20 or so months since he joined TFC?

Julian has clearly been playing better every time out this season and without being hampered by a damaged knee and now playing within a system that will use his skills properly, I'm stoked. He finally has a coach that knows how to use him and the club is so much the better for it.

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Which is precisely the problem. The people who give direction to and assess refs will look at that second yellow and say "job well done" Game Ruiner Gantar; have a promotion. The way fans and players want the game called - with reasonable common sense and an acknowledgement of context - is of no interest to these people. The problem more often than not isn't inconsistency it's rigorous adherence to an abstractly "consistent" interpretation of the laws divorced from the reality of the game as it is played.

My personal feeling: if Tchani did indeed climb the perimeter wall ala Dunfield the YC could be justified. I'm not entirely sure he actually did though and the decision was still absurd in the context of it being a second yellow that would dramatically affect the game for such an innocuous incident that was no danger to anyone and didn't delay the restart. This is precisely where the rules should allow space for referees to exhibit discretion and not tie their hands.

IMO, the video shows that he leapt up onto the railing. You don't have the best view of it but you can see that his upper body is horizontal with hands slapping him on the back. You don't see the railing but the only way he is in that position is if his body is above the upper rail.

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Which is precisely the problem. The people who give direction to and assess refs will look at that second yellow and say "job well done" Game Ruiner Gantar; have a promotion. The way fans and players want the game called - with reasonable common sense and an acknowledgement of context - is of no interest to these people. The problem more often than not isn't inconsistency it's rigorous adherence to an abstractly "consistent" interpretation of the laws divorced from the reality of the game as it is played.

My personal feeling: if Tchani did indeed climb the perimeter wall ala Dunfield the YC could be justified. I'm not entirely sure he actually did though and the decision was still absurd in the context of it being a second yellow that would dramatically affect the game for such an innocuous incident that was no danger to anyone and didn't delay the restart. This is precisely where the rules should allow space for referees to exhibit discretion and not tie their hands.

As a fan, the last thing I want is a ref who won't give a YC because of the "context" or the possible effects on the game. Refs are there to apply the rules and the justification for giving or not giving a card should never be the context. This will open the door to more inconsistency criticisms.

I may not agree with the PK rule because some fouls in the box are really not serious and are far away from a DOGSO situation (ie: a little push on a header on the baseline corner of the box) but it's not up to the ref not to call it because we are in injury time and the game is 0-0. It's up to the players to act with some maturity and maybe in term of jumping into the crowd we are in need of some clarifications from the assessors and FIFA (because some refs have given it and some didn't, so the question is why?).

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