Whose 4-3-3 will reign surpreme?

[tovan1]

With the NCC starting next week it'll be interesting to see how Toronto FC and FC Edmonton match up. Both clubs are being built around the 4-3-3 system implemented by their Dutch coaches, Aron Winter and Harry Sinkgraven respectively.

Edmonton has been working with the system for a year now, first under Lodeweges and now Sinkgraven, while the system is relatively new with Toronto having only used it for a couple months under Winter. FC Edmonton has a 2-1-0 league record going into the fixture while Toronto has a 1-2-3 record.

That said, it'll be interesting to see who comes out on top. With 2 Dutch-coached teams using the same 4-3-3 system, 1 team in NASL and 1 in MLS. So what do you guys think, whose 4-3-3 will reign surpreme? The upstart FC Edmonton or the middling Toronto FC?

[Mr.Caca]

The Eddies probably play 4-3-3 better than The FCs do. They play it better, but against lesser opponents. That being said, I think that Toronto will have the upper hand in their duel against Edmonton. The western FC is composed of young players full of potential, but the eastern one has the best individualities. Give Martina and Frei to Edmonton and I wouldn't be able to say which team would prevail.

[Trillium]

With the NCC starting next week it'll be interesting to see how Toronto FC and FC Edmonton match up. Both clubs are being built around the 4-3-3 system implemented by their Dutch coaches, Aron Winter and Harry Sinkgraven respectively.

Edmonton has been working with the system for a year now, first under Lodeweges and now Sinkgraven, while the system is relatively new with Toronto having only used it for a couple months under Winter. FC Edmonton has a 2-1-0 league record going into the fixture while Toronto has a 1-2-3 record.

That said, it'll be interesting to see who comes out on top. With 2 Dutch-coached teams using the same 4-3-3 system, 1 team in NASL and 1 in MLS. So what do you guys think, whose 4-3-3 will reign surpreme? The upstart FC Edmonton or the middling Toronto FC?

I understood that TFC had been implenting total soccer, or at least that is what the fan groups think.. of course not even the dutch do total soccer realizing it was a unique game played by a unique set of players in a unique time.

Toronto is not intelligent enough or fit enough to play total soccer, So FC Edmonton even if young can play a structured game and get a result against TFC even if its a tie.

[jpg75]

I understood that TFC had been implenting total soccer, or at least that is what the fan groups think.. of course not even the dutch do total soccer realizing it was a unique game played by a unique set of players in a unique time.

Toronto is not intelligent enough or fit enough to play total soccer, So FC Edmonton even if young can play a structured game and get a result against TFC even if its a tie.

I don't think any reasonably educated fan has called what TFC is playing 'total football'. It's a media driven label based on the assumption that anything Dutch is total football.

BTW, TFC don't even really play a 4-3-3, it's another media driven bunch of crap. We're playing a 4-2-3-1 and that should be apparent to anyone who has been watching this team.

[Trillium]

BTW, TFC don't even really play a 4-3-3, it's another media driven bunch of crap. We're playing a 4-2-3-1 and that should be apparent to anyone who has been watching this team.

With a current record of 1-3-2.... its been pretty hard to want to watch them, that said clearly TFC is a project in the making, as is FC Edmonton, you have to admit though TFC is vunerable regarding the Voyageurs Cup and Edmonton has had perhaps the best start of a any of the four participants,

Montreal is not playing well yet, TFC has challenges, Vancouver has been fun but is suffering from injuries and lapses in concentration from some players.

So a well organized FC Edmonton has a pretty good shot at at tie with TFC and then who knows, especially if its a 0-0 affair.

[Free kick]

I don't think any reasonably educated fan has called what TFC is playing 'total football'. It's a media driven label based on the assumption that anything Dutch is total football.

BTW, TFC don't even really play a 4-3-3, it's another media driven bunch of crap. We're playing a 4-2-3-1 and that should be apparent to anyone who has been watching this team.

But you can also reasonably assume that implementing such a philsophy was not going to get accomplished overnight. Not with the type of players that Winter inherited from Preki. the kind of players that Preki favoured are not ball possession oriented nor the ones apt to use the width of the pitch but rather the hard working/running, and ball winning types. You can clearly see from game one against the Whitecaps and up until now how the play as evolved. its as if in game 1 everyone made concerted efforted to buy into the philsopophy. And from that point the adhernce to the plan was loosened slightly.

In the end, it all comes down to the talent on the pitch. These kind of guiding philosophies are important but they have more long term value rather than immediate impact. You can probably say the same thing with FCE. The FCE players, just like the TFC players have not grown up with this system. Probably 80% (ie.: Canadians and Americans make up the largest number) of the player on both teams have evolved under the same homogenous, undefined system or philosophy. Thats not necessarily a bad thing and, your right, that its means that alot of this is media driven mumbo jumbo marketing talk. Except that, in case of TFC, the words did come from Aron Winter.

Still, I am looking forward to see and V-Cup match where both teams do play a 4-3-3. it will be different from the past, thats for sure.

[jonovision]

I think it's reasonable to assume that if Toronto fields a full-strength lineup they should win comfortably over two legs. Whether Winter and his staff will be taking this competition seriously remains to be seen.

What I think TFC will do is put out a strong side on Wednesday in the hopes of building a comfortable lead, then trot out a more youthful side for the 2nd leg at home. Winter could choose to do the reverse, but it's obviously more dangerous that way.

[jpg75]

But you can also reasonably assume that implementing such a philsophy was not going to get accomplished overnight. Not with the type of players that Winter inherited from Preki. the kind of players that Preki favoured are not ball possession oriented nor the ones apt to use the width of the pitch but rather the hard working/running, and ball winning types. You can clearly see from game one against the Whitecaps and up until now how the play as evolved. its as if in game 1 everyone made concerted efforted to buy into the philsopophy. And from that point the adhernce to the plan was loosened slightly.

In the end, it all comes down to the talent on the pitch. These kind of guiding philosophies are important but they have more long term value rather than immediate impact. You can probably say the same thing with FCE. The FCE players, just like the TFC players have not grown up with this system. Probably 80% (ie.: Canadians and Americans make up the largest number) of the player on both teams have evolved under the same homogenous, undefined system or philosophy. Thats not necessarily a bad thing and, your right, that its means that alot of this is media driven mumbo jumbo marketing talk. Except that, in case of TFC, the words did come from Aron Winter.

Still, I am looking forward to see and V-Cup match where both teams do play a 4-3-3. it will be different from the past, thats for sure.

Of course that philosophy isn't going to be implemented overnight! With total football you have 10 outfield players who are all capable of playing any of the other positions, you can't just throw a team together and get them playing that way. You'd have to get an entire generation of young Torontonians skilled enough to be able to dominate MLS to get away with that system. The type of players - mostly the possession savvy CB's - we'd need would be gone within a few years of cracking the senior side because they'd be in high demand around the world. An offensive, possession-style system is something we can strive for, but "total football" is a fantasy when you're playing in a cap-constrained, feeder league.